Ok, I checked this and the front windows roll up using the key in the door, but only the passenger window will roll down. The top does not go up using the key in the door.

 

So, roof closed only passenger window goes down. Roof and window open - Windows go up, top doesn't move?

 

All windows except the driver's and the top will go down.


Only front windows go up.

 

This is definitely a conundrum
I'm thinking that the electronics doesn't always know where the window is positioned.

Ultimately you're going to have to take the door card off and do some detective work, but try one more more check:

Open the window most of the way down (with the door closed) and then open the door using the outside handle. Does the window drop all the way or not move?

 

Yes, it still drops all the way. It only stops if I shut the door while it's going down.

 

The killer issues for me now, given all your feedback, are that when you open door and window is lowering . . . (1) internal manual window switch does not interrupt, stop or reverse window motion, but will once window is fully down . . . and (2) closing door immediately stops window motion, but re-opening continues window down.

Definitely, the door card has to come off . . . you may have a wiring anomaly (eg short, particularly short to ground) around either the door lock or window winder mechanisms, or a lousy connector. While not unknown, the far more common area for wiring failures is at the hinge point between A-pillar and door frame.

Check all circuits in door methodically because I fear the sole remaining issue is the door/window control module and its programming to your car . . . and for that, a detailed quote to achieve full dealer repair is warranted to avoid nasty surprises.

Cheers

Ken

 

On reflection it doesn't matter whether it's the inner or outer door handle the effect should be the same.

When the door latch is operated, an instruction is sent to the window to drop slightly. If it's fully closed, then it will do so. If it isn't then there's nothing to do as it's already clear of the roof/top, so it shouldn't move. That is how mine behaves, and is why I believe the window position is unknown.

I can't explain why the state of the door has an effect on the window motion: mine does not behave as you describe.

I would add that the window position sensors are built into the lift mechanism, so that's another possibility.
However, enough theorising: follow Ken's advice first, and if you can't find anything under the door card, I would advise swapping the module out with the passenger side one.
I know it's a PITA with all the fragile clips, but if the dealer diagnosis is wrong you may well continue paying for further parts to be swapped until the last one fitted cures the problem....

Just my


Mike

 

Brad, Mike . . . I should explain my comments in post #26, because Mike's analysis in #27 is correct in explaining logic for an initial "roof clearing" window drop, but it should then immediately stop. Keep in mind that all the in-door wiring is "hot" . . . +12V measurable on both sides of window motor . . . and motion moves to limit if the appropriate switch ties the ground seeking lead to earth.

It is possible that the external door handle, in unlatching the door-lock, is also, whether via a mechanical fault or electrical fault, falsely shorting the downwards ground seeking lead. Bottom line? You need to access and check the external door handle, mechanicals and wiring. Make sense?

Regards,

Ken

 

Just to build on Mike's comments, don't forget the window will (should) only drop if car thinks door is closed. By default the window is always already down a bit whenever the door is open.

This is tough. The fact that movement stops upon closing the door must indicate that the door swit h is working.

 

To clarify, there appears to be no difference in the window reaction whether the internal or external handle is used.

 

I've found and replaced so many broken clips and bits on this car that I'm really worried about inadvertently breaking something and making the problem worse.


Why did they put so many delicate clips on such an expensive car?

 

That was me having a blonde moment.

Indeed, or possibly a bad connection flexing? - but why should opening or closing the door affect window movement?

A set of proper trim tools will help minimise breakage.I bought a set off t'interweb recently and I reckon they saved half their value in the time it took me to get the front undertray off. It will cost you less to break and replace clips than it will to pay the dealer to do the same.

Economics:- 10 pennies saved on each door is nearly £20K added to the bottom line over the production run.

All of these and more are possibles.
Brad, you have to help us and start eliminating things or we could all be here hypothesising until it fixes itself LOL

It is a good one, though...

Mike

 

I'm still hoping it will fix itself!

 

Upon further consideration and examination, I think this might be the most significant clue brought up so far. If those of you with more experience would confirm...


Since the controls in the car all seem to work as they should and the window drops only when the door is opened from either the inside or out, the global opening/locking seems to be pointing at the break in the sequence: If the top and windows are all down, this only raises the two front windows. If the top and windows are all up, this will lower all windows except the driver's and it will also lower the top.


Would this confirm that the driver's door module is indeed the problem?

 

Inconclusive, IMO, but happy to be persuaded.

I have learnt something, though. I knew about global locking, but not that holding the key on unlock dropped the windows. Probably of more value on the convertible.
I really should RTFM.

Mike

 

I agree. Maybe, but not conclusive. What is conclusive are the observed facts -

• window motor and mechanicals are working in both directions;
• window down/up switch is working, but over-ridden as door opens;
• both int & ext door lock mechs are calling a "full down" rather than "inch down";
• all in-door wiring is ground seeking, so any earth short will produce movement;
• global functions all OK except for driver's window.

As stated previously, only 2 faults appear to call Brad's issue, and both require a detailed examination inside door and at door/window control module -

• taking all the first 4 points above, a short to earth on the down "ground-seeking" side of window motor which is created when opening door (by either int or ext handle) overrides the normal "inch down" function by driving window fully down . . . my case to date;
• however, with Brad's info now on globals that see driver's window misbehaving even with door closed, this suggests otherwise.

With an issue this nutty, door card clips are as nothing compared to costs at the dealer. Be patient; read and absorb JTIS for procedure; and take it slowly, carefully one step at a time. Note escutcheon screw(s). Simple job really, so hang in there mate.

Best wishes,

Ken

 

Is there a good video on the door card removal? The ones I've seen on YouTube assume you've done it before, and I've come across broken things on this car where someone obviously didn't know what they were doing or didn't care if they broke parts.

 

For door card removal, watch this:


It's a fairly straightforward process.