This is a copy from 2008 repair done to a car I'm looking at. Now that's record keeping!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

The parts list indicates both heads pulled and 4 exhaust valves replaced, which would have been only on the side where the secondary chain broke. What were the labor charges?

 

The labor charge is the figure at the top: $1101.10 + parts = $2291.10. Less TAX!

 

Thanks, I can't make alot of that out. Is that a warranty invoice then? That kind of labor is less than nothing if they indeed pulled both the heads.

 

I would think $1100.00 is a lot for labor. From what I've heard on this FORUM, that's about what it cost to have that repair done at a DEALER. Just think...if you buy a used JAG that hasn't had the TENSIONERS replaced, you are going to have to cough up $2000.00 somewhere down the line. Maybe more if the engine gets screwed up.

 

I'm not trying to belabor the point, and there certainly isn't any information gleaned from that ticket which would suggest you shouldn't buy the car. For the benefit of other readers:

Any secondary timing chain tensioners that are not the third generation fitment must be replaced, period. That's $800 parts and labor at my independant shop, even the highest price dealer should be less than double that amount.

If the dealer or independant insists on the need to replace the primary timing chain tensioners as well, then the total will be in the range of the bottom line that this ticket indicates. FactoryJagTech posted here about a year ago that his Florida Jaguar dealership got about $3500 total for replacement of primary and secondary tensioners. That would certainly be a high end figure, $2000 is cheap. But...

The ticket shows that two cylinder head gaskets and four exhaust valves were paid for on this invoice. While removal of the timing cover and all chain drive components is necessary before removing the heads, the rest of the job adds a significant amount of labor time and cost to complete. Total labor of $1100, even at 2008 rates, is not enough for the time involved if all of these parts were in fact installed.

Then there is the issue about the two "link sets" charged on the order, which do not bear Jaguar part numbers on the invoice. This entry suggests that a different repair method may have been used other than the factory procedure of removing the primary chains in order to replace the secondary chains. If they replaced the broken secondary chain by opening the new chain and fitting a master link when installing it, they could have done so without even removing the timing cover.

The engine obviously was repaired from this typical failure, i.e. failed tensioner broke a secondary chain. But the extent of the damage, and specific steps taken to repair it, are ambiguous when reading the "mixed metaphores" on this repair order. I'm not calling it bogus, I'm calling it into question.

As for royeco, at least you have a pretty good assurance that the secondary timing chain tensioners were replaced: those are the only likely components that can result in a catastrophic engine failure if they let go. If you like alpine green and are getting a decent deal on a 2000 XK8 with about 90K on it, at least you won't have to worry about the condition of the secondary timing chain tensioners.

 

This was the only person I have talked to that could at least produce some type of proof that they had been changed. Most of the Owners of the cars I have looked at don't know what I'm talking about or can't produce any work history. Knowing about this issue is the main concern in my search.
How far do you live from ROANOKE, VA. If I can find a GOOD car at a decent price..you can change the Tensioners for me. How's that?

 

Roy,

You're quite right about the tensioner issue, in that most owners and even many service providers and salesmen are unaware of the significance. You might have better results adopting the strategy that you are referring to, by finding a deal that otherwise measures up and just budgeting the cost of the secondary tensioner replacement as an add-on. I replace these tensioners, and also renew the transmission fluid and filter, on every XJ before I sell it. Sorry, no XK's in stock....

I'd be happy to provide any service you require, please send me a private message if I can be of assistance. I even work on Alpine Green cars, but it sure isn't my first choice!

By the way, in case you had not checked the Carfax: it was clean, and the car received a new throttle body (twice) and a Mass Air Flow sensor not too terribly long ago. Either the engine in that car is running perfectly and will stay that way for many miles...or people have been chasing an intermittant performance problem which may or may not have been permanently resolved. Take it for a nice long test drive before you write the check, if this particular XK is still on your shopping list.

Andrew Bernstein
British Auto Care
Powell, Ohio 43065

 

Thanks, not really my color. Just one of the many I have looked out!

 

Good man, it's worse than a purple one. You might want to post the seller's details here if you pass on this car though: at least this is one with some known history, and perhaps another shopper might want to pursue it.

 

I sent you a PM.

 

I had my Tensioner job done at European Auto Spec LTD in Blue Ash OH.

Timing chain kit (All chains)
Plugs
Water Pump
Coolant
Oil Filter
Mobile 1
Housing Seal
Bypass Hose
Timing seal kit
Tensioner bolt
Acc Belt Tensioner
Acc Delt Idler
Oil Drain Plug

All chains, tensioners and chain guides replaced. Water Pump and related deals while apart, Had to drill out a busted blt in pump, heli-coil said siezed bolt.
labor 19 hours, 84.89/hr = 1612.91
Parts 1639.64
Tax and other BS = 3596.41 out the door.

I did take it to 2 other places, dealer and another Euopean shop. Went with this one cas they had been in Blue Ash for many moons, done this exact jag repair many times with no failures, and just the over all vibe I got fromt he shop. They let me come and check out the process as it went, explained everything to me. Just seems right. Not the feeling I got from the dealer or the other clown that would do the work but thought BENZ'S were sent from god and everything else was junk.

 

That's a little stiff, but thorough and somewhat cost-effective. The drive belt idler and tensioner pulley pair is expensive, but upgrading them with the revised parts while they are off to do the chains is prudent and saves additional labor cost (and maybe a breakdown when you spit off the drivebelt) at a later date.

You see what I mean about the comparative labor cost, though: Roy's ticket showed far less labor, and the man who paid the ticket paid for new head gaskets and four valves. I doubt they were needed, or ever made it into the car.

By the way BRG, there was a guy on here from Dayton, looking for a shop to change the transfer case oil in his X Type. It would be nice of you to track him down and give him the referral.

 

I know the shop does all Euopean cars, old *** classics to new stuff. I suspect they could help him.
Yea, the drive belt idler/pully thing was squeaky, the bearing was sounding a little bad so I thought, its a part, lets do it NOW. My local dealer wanted close to 3k just to do the chain/tensioner/guide repair.
Hell they brought in a specialist to work/fix the broken off in block bolt on the water pump. I think he was like 150 or so for his time alone.
When the dealer did everything he could to aviod looking (never did) up all the codes on the prev work on the car before this repair was done, (when I first got car) that turned me off to the dealer at any cost if possible. I found that to be LOUSY customer service. He is the only Jag dealer in my area and he had to think that I would come back for any work needed. NOT!

 

Looks like I'll have to get the work done. I believe these owners who are selling know about the problem. Thats why they are selling. Most of them are at that mileage range. When they have service done at a JAG. DEALER, don't they tell them this could happen?

 

All this talk is scarring me. I recently bought a 2000 XK8 with 48K. Woman owner and mostly driven in Atlanta traffic to work. Car seems fine; very slight ticking in engine.
So, here's my question; as preventative maintenance, when would one think about having the chains, tensioners, etc. replaced? BTW, The 'carburetor' looks like a recent replacement as it is out of the box shiny compared to the rest of the under bonnet area.

 

Put the keys on the counter top in the kitchen and don't even start the engine until someone in the know looks at the primary tensioners and determines they are the current good ones, or need replacing. Search to forum here for tensioners, there is a TON of info.

BTW, that's the throttle body, there is no carbeurator.

 

Steve means secondary tensioners, and he's absolutely correct, have someone or yourself pull the valve covers off and see if you have the newer metal tensioners, if not have them replaced. an average price is around $800.00 to a $1000.00 they can go at any time and cost much more.

 

Yup, thanks for correcting me. Doh!

 

Brantman,
Fear is a good thing if it motivates you to action.
I changed the secondary tensioners on my '98 last winter. 54,000 miles. The engine was stone quiet but the "Tensioner Evangelists" convinced me to take the plunge and swap them. I took the covers off and visual inspection indicated they were the original series one tensioners and they looked to be in perfect shape. But I though what the heck, I bought the parts (total around $300) and had already pulled the covers so I might as well do the job.
That's when I got the surprise, during removal of the drivers side tensioner it fell apart! it was split top to bottom. I wonder how many starts I had before it gave up on its own? Not many I suspect. So stop wondering and holding your breath when you turn the key, go swap the secondary tensioners.