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As you guys may know, I have a 2015 F-Type R, and I had a 2010 XFR. I LOVE this brand, am so invested in it... I really would like to keep getting a new one every few years ...but now I'm just left wondering what the future will bring...
See, if I want a Jaguar, but don't want to keep or lease a new F-type R because I want more practicality....I literally have no place to go.
There is no R (I hate the SVR nomenclature, but I'll take it if it was available) for the XE, XF, or F-Pace. XJR is cool, but big and quite frankly, I can't spend big $$$ on a super sedan that doesn't offer AWD, when ironically they mandate AWD on their sports car. (I know the story about the AWD retrofit, blah blah...but it is what it is.)
Having the XE be out without a high power version is plain dumb. By the time an XER comes out, nobody will care. Alfa is offering the Giulia for $75,000 with all options and 505 hp. It's beautiful, fast, unique, and offers amazing value....reminds me of 2010, and a car called the XFR.
Then let's talk about styling or lack thereof. XE is just dull. I was so looking forward to it feeling the anticipation that I did in 2011 when they released the XJ. I was blown away by the XJ as that was a revolutionary and beautiful design. In the case of the XE, I was just disappointed. Boring through and through. Interior was also dull.
Now imagine how I felt when I saw the XF. They made it both less attractive than the first XF, and less attractive than the XE. C'mon.... even Ian Callum seemed apologetic. Awful.
The F-Pace was a glimmer of hope. But I'm not convinced that they are moving in the right direction.
Now, let's talk about how the prices have crept up, and the standard features are less...let's point out that the InControl Pro platform is riddled with bugs and problems. Let's talk about the incessant rattles that plague these cars even as they get more expensive. This last point really gets me. My F-Type was in for a bad rattle over my left ear, and they gave me a brand new XF with 200 miles on it. I had it for a week and drove it for 350 miles...in that time, it had 2 rattles from the headliner. That is BS.
So, I ask .... what is going on? Alfa is back, Maserati is making a play, AMG is rocking, and BMW is starting to sort themselves out. Porsche is also at a high.
I'm concerned. I love this brand and I just see wasted potential.
V8 versions of the XE, XF and F-Pace are in the pipeline, nobody will say when they will be available but the cars are out there right now cutting laps on the Nürburgring and doing extreme weather testing in Russia & Scandanavia.
As for the styling, you can expect an R or SVR version to be more agressive in the looks department, but if you are not thrilled with the basics of the cars, I don't know how much a bodykit & badges will help sway you...
That doesn't matter to most which is why most people buy Mercedes and Porsches. I don't blame them. You won't have to worry about a Porsche rattling or the airbag sensors not working.
But if you're invested in the brand, try to understand that Jaguar wants to be BMW. It just isn't easy to replicate what they do. They have enormous brand equity, particularly in the M and AMG divisions which means there's always a steady flow of demand for those cars.
Jaguar is trying to build up a similar brand with the SVR nomenclature that you despise. Sedans, however, are not in demand. SUVs are. So it's more likely the F-Pace gets this sort of treatment than the XE for now.
Jaguar needs profit, they need volume, for every potential buyer wanting an XFR there would be 50 wanting an SUV like the F-Pace, it's just the way the world is heading.
So yes vehicles like the F-Pace, the smaller E-Pace and the electric I-Pace are taking a priority. I can't wait for a V8 XE to hit the streets, but it's not going to sell in the tens of thousands like the mainstream models will.
Without the sales of the lesser models, there won't be any money for the hot ones...
Why do they need to be like BMW??? BMW has become a bloated shadow of itself. Their U.S. sales are down...and dynamically, they've lost a step. They would be doing worse if they did not subsidize their leases as aggressively as they do.
Jaguar should build its brand around being a both luxury and performance brand. They need to celebrate their heritage and get back into racing. SVR has no heritage. It should be "R" and that's it... if they want to add a layer up, they can do so by adopting nomenclature from their heritage...
SVR has no heritage, and worse is shared by Land Rover....
Jaguar should always lead with their performance models. They serve as halos. That's what gets them the press, and gets people into the showrooms. A guy will want an XER, and go to the showroom and realize that if he can't afford that model, he can get a nicely equipped S. The excitement was planted by the R model.
You may not agree but they seem to be doing something right.
2016 was a record year for both Jaguar and Land Rover. Jaguar sold just shy of 149'000 cars worldwide in 2016, which was a 77% increase over 2015. JLR sales have nearly tripled since 2009.
Why do they need to be like BMW??? BMW has become a bloated shadow of itself. Their U.S. sales are down...and dynamically, they've lost a step. They would be doing worse if they did not subsidize their leases as aggressively as they do.
Jaguar should build its brand around being a both luxury and performance brand. They need to celebrate their heritage and get back into racing. SVR has no heritage. It should be "R" and that's it... if they want to add a layer up, they can do so by adopting nomenclature from their heritage...
SVR has no heritage, and worse is shared by Land Rover....
Jaguar should always lead with their performance models. They serve as halos. That's what gets them the press, and gets people into the showrooms. A guy will want an XER, and go to the showroom and realize that if he can't afford that model, he can get a nicely equipped S. The excitement was planted by the R model.
Outside of car forums performance car enthusiasts are in the minority. We really are a niche. 99% of the public who buy cars couldn't care about racing heritage, R, SVR or whatever nomenclature - they want a prestige brand name to keep up with the neighbors and typically an SUV. That is the target audience for the car manufacturers as they are the ones driving the biggest sales volumes, not the high performance models.
That's like an artist that sells out... BMW sold out. Porsche never sold out. Jaguar shouldn't sell out. I have no problems with SUV's as long as it keeps within the brand philosophy.
I think people were saying that Porsche sold out when it came up with the Cayenne. Then moreso when they became more accessible with the Macan. In fact I seem to recall people saying that it sold out when it came up with the affordable boxster, and going back further, the 924 and 944, both of which were scoffed at as being "not a real porsche".
The XE might look a bit generic from the back but it is a truly amazing car to drive, I drive my missus' 25T and you can throw it around more then the f type - and that is saying something. But yes, personally I thought that the high point of the Jag sedans (exterior and interior) was the '11 XF and since then they have been tamed a little in appearance. Personally, while I like the new style interior, it should have a little more jaguar "specialness" about it.
But if you want to see if the marque has lost its mojo, try driving an evoque. I had one as a loaner last week, for driving enjoyment it was just light years behind the XE or F Type.
Your complaints seem to be now targeted around a brand abandoning its principles in favor of sales. While I don't agree that Jaguar has done that, it's kind of a lame complaint.
Do you think Porsche builds cars like the GT2 RS and Targa models because of heritage? Branding is part of it, but they will sell every single one with ease. Ditto BMW and the M4 GTS. And they can do that because they invested in a brand and image. SVO is a critical part of that. Like it or not, fools like me pay more for that stuff.
You want Jaguar to be able to make ridiculous vehicles like that, right? Then they have to make money. And to make money, they have to make compromises and meet consumer demand. It's what Porsche did when building both the Cayenne and Boxster. Both cars catapulted the company to laughable profits. And now they can make 918 Spyders, GTS models, Turbo S, GT- models, even a 3.8 liter Boxster!
Mercedes-Maybach G650 Landaulet. I bet it'll cost more than $300k and they'll sell all of them.
Lamenting that a company is seeking profitability while simultaneously complaining that they aren't building enthusiast oriented models is nonsensical. One needs to happen before the latter can occur.
What do you mean Porsche never sold out? Their best selling vehicle is the Macan based on the current Audi Q5, which is being replaced later this year. Where do you think their V6 and V8 come from? Audi/VW. The previous best seller was the Cayenne based on Q7/VW suv's. The Panamera platform is shared with A8,and Bentley Cont. It originally came from VW Phaeton. If all they had were 911's they would either be priced like Ferrari or be gone. As nice as they are no 911 is going to sell like Ferrari! At the current prices they really don't sell very many.
My concern is not necessarily a lack of V8 variants right now (we know that Ford-sourced 5.0L s/c V8 is being phased out in favor of a BMW-sourced 4.0L V8 twin-turbo unit), but rather the cheapness of the new interiors. I have a 2015 XF V8 S/C (XFR essentially) which stickered at $72,000. When I sat in a 2016 XF (3.0 V6) that sold for $75,000 I was shocked as to how much cheaper every touch point felt.
XE I kind of expected to be a bit cheaper inside, but what the actual sh-it?
F Type is not beyond reproach in this regard either (some plastics are cheap, headliner is not exactly amazing in quality), but at least everything you touch feels solid and expensive.
The jag interiors might improve. The first time I sat in an F Type (when they first came out, and at the time I had an XF Portfolio) I thought that the F Type interior/dials etc looked like it came out of a toyota corolla. The F Type interiors are quite nice these days...or have my expectations just lowered over the years?
Alfa is not going to sell many of the Quadrifoglio. They don't care as they goal is to sell many of the standard Giulia. The old saying:
Do you want to sell one glass of lemonade for 1 million dollars, or one million glasses of lemonade for 1 dollar?
Unless you are Porsche (which is backed by VAG so they don't really need volume), you cannot afford not to cater to the mid tier buyers. The XE is right there in the market and so far looks like it will take it. All the reviews have it rated (overall) higher than the equivalent BMW and the Giulia. Volume is the name of the game to stay in business. BMW has figured this out. It took Audi a while, but they figured it out with their A3 & A4 lines. Yes, Jaguar is following in those footsteps but that's because it's a successful way to keep a car company a float.
The jag interiors might improve. The first time I sat in an F Type (when they first came out, and at the time I had an XF Portfolio) I thought that the F Type interior/dials etc looked like it came out of a toyota corolla. The F Type interiors are quite nice these days...or have my expectations just lowered over the years?
Nope. There is only one cheap material used in my SVR and that's the air bag cover. Everything else is very high quality. I didn't even care about that before buying the car, but I'm pleasantly surprised.
02-12-2017, 08:34 PM
Has Jaguar lost its mojo?
