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  #1  
Old 08-29-2009, 04:53 AM
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Default Jaguar 4.0/ 4.2/ Lincoln 3.9 interchangeability?

I have the issues concerning 4.0 litre Jaguar normally aspirated engines committed to memory pretty well by now, and am aware of most of the differences that accompany the supercharged versions. This is about alternatives.

A company named Racing Green states on their website that they have accomplished installation of 4.2L Jaguar engines in place of 4.0. There description is not long on detail, and is the first of such information I have found.

What I have found is that the 4.0 normally aspirated engine has a 10.7:1 compression ratio and a square bore/stroke:

The 4.2 normally aspirated engine has an 11:1 compression ratio and the same bore size as the 4.0 with a longer stroke.

On the surface, it seems to me that fueling requirements for these two engines will not be identical. I do not know if the fuel injectors are the same, and presume that either a 4.2 ECM would be required, or a remapping of the 4.0 ECM after the interchange was made. Does anyone have additional information on this swap?

On the subject of suitability of the Lincoln LS 3.9 Liter Ford engine: compared with the Jaguar 4.0, the bore size AND the stroke are different to account for the 32cc reduction. That verifies information I found that shows the crank, rods, and pistons are also different from their Jaguar cousin. This seems an even less suitable candidate for a swap, even after changing the Ford engine over to the V V T system from the Jaguar engine. The same questions about ECM mapping would seem to apply. Any thoughts on this issue?

I raise the subject since the replacement of failed 4.0 engines comes up quite often, and am always interested in other solutions...particularly if a quality result can be achieved for less money. If added performance from the increased displacement is available, so much the better.

Last edited by JagtechOhio; 08-29-2009 at 05:17 AM. Reason: Added more specifics about the Lincoln bore/ stroke/ displacement
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Old 08-29-2009, 06:27 AM
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jagtech, I don't have a lot of the specifics, but logic says to me that between the 4.0 and 4.2L motors, there will be suttle differences, but in the electronic world, you should be able to transfer over what you need. What I mean by this is the fuel injectors for both engines will be very similar (if not the same), the crank position sensors should be identical (use the same technology in the way of hall effect sensors), etc. So, all that you have to do is move the wiring between the two. The big question is a lot of these sensors have keyed plugs. So, do the keys line up between the same sensor on both engines. Worst case, you would need to get the plugs from the newer 4.2L engine and pull the wires from the plastic plugs of a 4.0L engine wiring harness and slide them into place. Not hard, but would take a little bit of time.

I think it can be done without too much work. The 4.2L motor should even run using the 4.0L ECU. Now, I will admit that getting the 4.0L ECU tuned to the 4.2L motor would be a good idea, it may not be needed as the ECU will be looking at the MAF, O2 sensors and whatnot and then adjusting the fuel injectors to correct for any lean/rich conditions. Ford uses the same computer for their 4.6L and 5.4L engines in their trucks.

As for the Lincoln 3.9, as long as it is using the same block, that too should be able to be used. The differences you are talking about are all mechanical and shouldn't be an issue as you are swapping out entire engines, not replacing a limited number of parts.

I liken this to the old days of pulling a Chevy 327 out of a vehicle and sliding in a 350 from a newer model. Yes, they are different motors, but the blocks were the same and all the wiring leading up to them was the same (maybe just not in the same spots). In your case, the computers should offer some flexibility in doing this, but the big question is whether the sensors offer the same outputs (which I believe they do).
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Old 08-29-2009, 04:51 PM
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I would certainly be open to a 4.2 replacement for my 4.0, but I question whether it would be any more or less cost effective. Given the similarities between the two engines, and my limited understanding of both posts above, I believe the what and how can best be discovered and discussed with a detailed step-by-step with photos posted on this forum. I propose that we all get together, donate parts, money, expertise, etc. to get this research project under way. To kick things off, I will let you use my car, just return it at the end of the research project with the 4.2 in it. No need to thank me. That is about the extent of what I can offer of value to this discussion, but I will be following with great interest, almost as if my daily commute counts on it.
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Old 08-29-2009, 05:06 PM
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I'm visioning a retro T-bird with a Supercharged 4.2 V8 in it...and I really don't even like the new T-bird...but it would be fun.
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Old 08-29-2009, 05:13 PM
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Hi Tex,

I hope this will be a no-BS thread, but I'll let you in anyway.

The economics will be investigated once the feasability is determined. The reason to evaluate Lincoln is that are likely to be alot more of them around. It comes down to supply and demand with this stuff, so I'm trying to find alternate supply. I suppose the search should also extend to possible LandRover interchanges as well, I haven't done that homework yet. No interchange information is in print that I can find so far.

It could also turn out that the 4.2, IF it is an easily adaptable candidate for a swap, could be an economical choice: apparently very few of them suffer major problems. Some guys are still asking a fortune for good used 4.0 and 4.0R engines because of their scarcity.

Now that I read Racing Green can do it, I want to know how and how much. The electronic management considerations are likely to prove that it can't be done on the cheap.
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Old 08-29-2009, 07:26 PM
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Hi JagtechOhio,

Have looked at what is available at Coventry West? They might be able to offer packages at vendor rates although I don't know if they have the engines you are looking for.

As I understand it, the major reliabilty issues of the 4.0 V8s were the camchain tensioners and the water pump. These two issues were solved in the 4.2 V8 based on what I've read.

One alternative you may want to explore is the use of a short block to use as a platform to transfer the remaining parts (heads, intake and like) from the broken engine. This assumes the heads of the donor engine are OK. I'm not sure if this is cheaper than using a long block though.

http://www.coventrywest.com/

Mike
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Old 08-29-2009, 08:13 PM
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Thanks Mike,

Right now I have a AJ27 factory rebuilt (sleeved) in stock, 50K miles, that engine is for sale for $3k. I doubt they offer deals like that.

I have an '01 AJ27 short block (sleeved) to build, two AJ27 short blocks (Nikasil) to build, two left heads, four right heads, and an AJ26 with a bad rod bearing. A few other cores for parts.

What I don't have is anything that Frankie can use for his 4.2 S Type R, or Tex's 1999 XJR. There will be alot more failed 4.0 engines in the future, and less dollars available to ressurrect them with. So I'm looking for cost effective options.
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Old 08-29-2009, 09:31 PM
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I'm curious about the feasibility of the new 5.0 (AJ133) engine. Right now, I'm sure it is pretty cost prohibitive, but as the years go on and more cars are out there, it seems like an even more attractive choice compared to the 4.2 It could be a very streetable 500hp with no modifications in factory supercharged form. It could also, conceivibly, hold value better than a wildly modified 4.0 or 4.2 since it could possibly be taken to Jaguar without them laughing you out of the building (or possibly this is still wishful thinking). Although, doesn't everyone use independent shops anyway?
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Old 08-29-2009, 10:59 PM
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One question that I have no technical ability to answer is the weight issue of transferring to a 4.2 to a 4.0 car. The 4.2 should be a heavier engine. Does the extra weight also require suspension modifications to accomodate, or is the weight difference not enough to worry about from a suspension perspective? Also, the Land Rovers have a 4.4L version. The 4.2 was created by using a longer stroke, while the 4.4 uses a larger bore as well. I suspect that might add another layer of complexity as far as the electronics are conerned.

I'll try to keep my posts BS free, but you understand how difficult that is for me.
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Old 08-29-2009, 11:30 PM
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Nice work Tex,

we'll let you stay in the game. The weight differential of the two engines? Negligable.

K. Westra, this is about fixing $8,000 cars without having to spend $5,000. to do it. Or in Frankie's case, a $12,000 (?) car without having to spend the $8,000. he was quoted.

You can fill your trunk with Franklins and drive on by for your supercharged 5.0 swap anytime you want, I'll be here in a few years.

So far nobody has piped in with carnal knowledge. I'll try talking to the Team Green guys and my programming guru dude and see if I can learn anything.
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Old 08-30-2009, 04:41 AM
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@JTO,

The LS engine would seem actually a very feasible one to me; do you actually think that a 32cc (less than 0.8%) difference would be of any effect? I see many cheap ones on the net. I think you only need to reuse the cam/vvt gear, and of course al electronic items (injectors etc).

The later LS ones from 2003 do have VVT, and are based around (from what I could see from pictures) the 4.2 block from Jaguar, but probably some tweaks here and there, and am not sure if this one could be used as base block for 4.0 cars.

Many have already changed their 4.0 for a 4.2 block, that is not an issue at all, but again you need to use the electronics from the 4.0 block (amongst others).

Needless to say the 5.0 liter block is very different and not feasible without using a new ECU,
and those consequences are big, as all other systems in the car will be almost useless without the original ECU.

Hope this helps,
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Old 08-30-2009, 08:37 AM
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Got these from East Coast Salvage. They have a parts lookup so I searched on XJ8 N/A engines. I have no idea if these are good prices or fairly expensive. I am hoping to just provide another resource to those who need the engines or other parts.

Good luck all,

Mike

We matched your request.
  • Click the BACK BUTTON in the upper left corner of your browser to keep your previous choices and easily modify your search
  • Most prices do not include extended warranties or shipping.
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Year
Part
ModelDescriptionMilesPart
Grade
Stock#US
PriceDealer Info2001
Engine
Jaguar XJ8LOOK NEW ENGINE SEE BLOCK1AN018P$3400.77East Coast Auto Source USA-VA(Moneta) Request_Quote 1-800-869-0655 Request_Insurance_Quote
</B>2000
Engine
Jaguar XK876k 1AN026P$2200.77East Coast Auto Source USA-VA(Moneta) Request_Quote 1-800-869-0655 Request_Insurance_Quote
</B>2001
Engine
Jaguar XJ885k 85,000AN177P$2000.77East Coast Auto Source USA-VA(Moneta) Request_Quote 1-800-869-0655 Request_Insurance_Quote
</B>2000
Engine
Jaguar XK882k 82,000AQ131P$2000East Coast Auto Source USA-VA(Moneta) Request_Quote 1-800-869-0655 Request_Insurance_Quote
</B>1999
Engine
Jaguar XK867k,needs oil pan,lh vco,1 part upper oil pan may need weld NEED CORE0AM162P$1800.77East Coast Auto Source USA-VA(Moneta) Request_Quote 1-800-869-0655 Request_Insurance_Quote
</B>
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Old 08-30-2009, 06:55 PM
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Found this site that has re-manufactured Jaguar engines and transmissions. Generally, the 3.0 V6 engines are $3500 and the 4.0/4.2 V8s are $5200. 6-speed transmissions are around $3000. They do have used engines but price is dependent on mileage.

http://www.jaguar-engine.com/index.html
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Old 08-30-2009, 07:15 PM
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That's great! All we need now is for someone there to join the forum and be our in-house consultant.
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Old 08-31-2009, 05:39 AM
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Maybe one of our silver-tongued moderators can recruit someone.

Mike
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Old 08-31-2009, 12:04 PM
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Started a "Quick Reference guide" thread to swap your 4.0 with a 4.2 engine. This was from the head, will have a look later as I might have forgotton somethign.
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Old 08-31-2009, 02:46 PM
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THANK YOU Andre, please see my post on your new thread. NICE JOB !
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Old 08-31-2009, 08:22 PM
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JagtechOhio,

I think you have a pretty good idea about the possibility of using Ford or Lincoln V8s. I found the following on another website:

AJ30/AJ35
The 3.9L (3934 cc) AJ30/AJ35 variant is a unique displacement used only by Ford and Lincoln and is built in Ford's Lima, OH engine plant. Bore is 86 mm and stroke is 85 mm. The AJ35 version introduced for the 2003 model year added variable valve timing of the intake camshafts and electronic throttle control. While the block, crankshaft, pistons, and connecting rods are all unique to this displacment, many other parts are shared with the AJ-V8 engines produced in the UK by Jaguar.
Vehicles using this engine:


* 2000-2002 Lincoln LS, 252 hp 267 ft·lbf
* 2002 Ford Thunderbird, 252 hp 267 ft·lbf
* 2003-2006 Lincoln LS, 280 hp 286 ft·lbf
* 2003-2005 Ford Thunderbird, 280 hp 286 ft·lbfThe last AJ35 was produced in march 2006 after only 3 years. Total run of AJ30/35 was nearly 250,000 units

Based on this it appears though you could take one of these short blocks and put the rest of the Jaguar parts on it. I noticed the East Coast Salvage had the Lincoln V8s for around $1000 or so. Not sure what the labor charges would be but this may give those who need an engine some alternatives. This would work for a non-supercharged engine situation only though. Finding a reasonable supercharged V8 is a real b!tch.

Mike
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Old 08-31-2009, 08:22 PM
 
 
 
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