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Well after a month or so parked outside in some really heavy rain, the driver's side (LHD) carpet is soaking wet.
I took the carpet and the foam underlay out today - the underlay was so wet I was able to wring about a pint of water out of it ..ugh!
The carpet was pretty wet too! As you can see in the pic below, the dark stain was the wettest area that looks like it begins in the corner just forward of the fusebox where the carpet rises up under the pedals.
There isn't any rust on the floor pan or firewall that I can see and the firewall section of the carpet is completely dry.
I haven't felt any drips on my feet while driving and the sunroof and ac drains are clear.
The 94's (at least mine) doesn't use the "duckbill" but instead has a small "flapper valve" in the unit that drains from the air intake/plenum - and that seems clear. I removed the wiper and plastic air vent cowl and had a look around for obvious signs of leaks/rust etc but found everything to be secure.
I'll remove the side carpeting next (or at least fold it back) so I can see what's happening in that corner - but for the life of me I can't see where the water could be coming from at that point ...somewhere in the wheel well perhaps?
Off the top of my head, the few possibilities that come to mind in no particular order are:
1. Disconnected A/C drain leaking water down the side of the transmission tunnel and pooling under your feet.
2. Leaking gasket around the leaper emblem on the left front fender/wing allowing water to pool inside the fender and find its way into the passenger compartment behind the fuse box/side scuttle trim.
3. Windshield cowl leaking above the brake master cylinder and water dripping down the brake pedal onto the floor.
4. A leak above the blower motor housing inlet allowing water into the passenger compartment????
5. A leak in the windshield/windscreen gasket, perhaps exacerbated by ice?
6. Check your coolant level just in case it might be a leaking heater core, but I don't think so.
7. Problem with door weatherstrip.
8. Problem with sunroof seal.
Seems like I'm forgetting something. I'm sure whatever you figure out will be the one I forgot!
Well Don, with the carpets in the house and drying nicely I was greeted this morning with another cup or so of water on the bare metal cabin sole. The water was clear so probably not coolant - almost certainly rainwater because I dried the sole off last night when I parked.
I think there must be quite a large hole somewhere, like a wiring or cable grommet has dislodged or some part of the metalwork has rusted through ...
If the weather was a bit more compassionate I'd be able to look into it further but so far it's either bitterly cold (freezing) or raining cats and dogs ..and since I lost my "garage" back in November I'm resigned to working on the street - a fairly busy place!
My plan is to pick up some food colour and fill a bucket water with that "dye" in it and get a helper to pour the stuff down the windshield/fender area while I lie down in the footwell with a bright light.
My first thought was the door seal, but the side carpeting around the step and forward to the firewall is dry, as is the side carpeting on the centre console. I should also mention that the top surface of the cabin sole carpeting was also dry-ish .. all the water was soaking up through the carpet from underneath.
It seems to stream from the far left hand corner under the pedals, but how it arrives there is the mystery to solve. I think it must be coming from inside the fender. I'll pull the liner and see if there's any holes in there I guess! Just hoping I don't have to remove the fender to find out!
You might want to try removing your cowl/wiper panel and see if it's clogged with debris or maybe rust thru somewhere.Otherwise,my guess would be a leaking windshield gasket. Try having someone spray the car with a garden hose while you sit inside checking for drips/leaks. Just hope it doesn't freeze up on you before it makes it inside. Since it recently got cold,my guess is the windshield gasket may have shrunk just enough to cause a leak.
You might want to try removing your cowl/wiper panel and see if it's clogged with debris or maybe rust thru somewhere.Otherwise,my guess would be a leaking windshield gasket. Try having someone spray the car with a garden hose while you sit inside checking for drips/leaks. Just hope it doesn't freeze up on you before it makes it inside. Since it recently got cold,my guess is the windshield gasket may have shrunk just enough to cause a leak.
Ok.
Well, this morning I managed to get the wiper cowl off and checked the condition of the plenum drain etc I took a few snaps and as far as I can tell, this isn't where the leak is coming from. It's all pretty clean with no sign of rust or holes.
rear side of plenum
plenum crevice - drain to duckbill at far left - foam washer wire insulation upper left. Whole area clean with no rust evident.
I also took a few shots of the windscreen corner ...again, no corrosion evident but the rubber gasket did seem less tight than elsewhere .. so if it's leaking there, would that allow something like half a pint of water to enter if it rained continuously overnight?
Windscreen corner with plastic plenum cover removed. Clean.
Windscreen seal quite slack at this corner ..could this be the entry point? Where would water enter the cabin if this were the leak source?
Would adding a squirt of sealant (type? silicone?) be a good idea? I guess it can't hurt, eh?
Got mine disassembled as we speak,but mine was for finding out why only one of my windshield washers was working. Thought it might have been a bad or loose hose but my nozzle needs replacement. Just can't win!
Would adding a squirt of sealant (type? silicone?) be a good idea? I guess it can't hurt, eh?
Larry,
I think sealant is definitely a good idea. Black RTV works well on weather strip but I would suggest wiping everything with denatured alcohol to clean and degrease the surfaces before applying the sealant.
They make a UV resistant sealant for windows. While RTV may work it may also breakdown due to sun exposure. If you can't find any at your local auto parts stores then most auto paint supply places carry it or your local auto glass shop.
They make a UV resistant sealant for windows. While RTV may work it may also breakdown due to sun exposure. If you can't find any at your local auto parts stores then most auto paint supply places carry it or your local auto glass shop.
95Leaper, that's a great point, and now that I look at Larry's photo again I think you're right, a UV resistant sealant would be best.
Larry, just be aware that some of the urethane glass sealants require primer before application and the squeezeout can be difficult to clean if you don't do it immediately.
Don, do you think that the quantity of water I describe (almost a full cup overnight) could come from a loose seal when the windscreen is bonded to the frame at the back side? I'd like to think it was the answer but how would it get into the cabin from there?
Don, do you think that the quantity of water I describe (almost a full cup overnight) could come from a loose seal when the windscreen is bonded to the frame at the back side? I'd like to think it was the answer but how would it get into the cabin from there?
It really seems unlikely that that much water is finding its way past the windscreen seal in such a short period of time. And it seems as though you would see some evidence of water on the dash, A-pillar trim or headliner.
Have you tried pouring some water down the left front sunroof drain with the sunroof open to see if all the water is making its way out of the tube in the wheel well? I wonder if the drain tube could be broken and leaking water behind the left kick panel/scuttle behind the fuse box?
It really seems unlikely that that much water is finding its way past the windscreen seal in such a short period of time. And it seems as though you would see some evidence of water on the dash, A-pillar trim or headliner.
Yes, that's what I was thinking too, so holding off on slathering gipe all over the gasket for now.
Have you tried pouring some water down the left front sunroof drain with the sunroof open to see if all the water is making its way out of the tube in the wheel well? I wonder if the drain tube could be broken and leaking water behind the left kick panel/scuttle behind the fuse box?
Not yet Don, but I'll do that as soon as I can - foretasted temps are in the -6's for next week (that's celsius) so when it warms up I'll get to it ...don't fancy riding around with a block of ice up front!!! -
Thanks as always for the tip Don and all the best for the new year -
In fact, happy new year to all of the forum contributors!
Lawrence, have you had a good inspection of the transmission tunnel just to make sure that it is intact and not the source of the leak? Pay particular attention to the plastic cowl underneath the carpet.
I discovered, quite by accident, that this was the source of my interior leak which is exactly as you describe. Every time I pressure washed the engine, the exterior foam that is between the transmission and the floor pan/transmission tunnel would soak up the water. Because my interior plastic transmission tunnel cover was cracked in a couple of places (due to old age) the water would make it's way into the cabin thus soaking my carpets.
Lawrence, have you had a good inspection of the transmission tunnel just to make sure that it is intact and not the source of the leak? Pay particular attention to the plastic cowl underneath the carpet.
Hi and thanks for the tip, but the tranny side of the carpet isn't wet - it's the opposite side, near the far left corner where the water seems to originate from and drain into the footwell ..
Well it quit raining/sleeting etc for a little while but it has been bitterly cold with an Arctic outflow gusting around 70 km/h, so not ideal conditions for working on the ol jag.
Most unpleasant and unusual even for January!
Figuring it'll start raining again soon, I decided to have a bash at the leak again so despite frozen finger syndrome I removed the inner plastic wheel well to have a look. Just to remind me what it was supposed to look like under there, last week I drove out to the parts cart and took a pic:
At first glance it all looked fine in there on the VDP, cobwebs an' all ...no large gaping rust-holes anywhere and generally all pretty dry.
One spot did look a little suspicious though, the area around the bottom of the lower harness grommet seemed a little damp.
Traces of moisture here
I checked that the grommet corrugations were still in one piece and the sunroof drain tube was ok so decided this wasn't the source of the leak.
After warming up my numb fingers, poked the camera in the area and fired off a few shots before buttoning the wheel well back up.
Moving on to the cabin sole (I just have a rubber mat from the missuses old Murano in there til I find the leak; carpets are indoors for now) I removed the fuse box kick panel and fired off some more shots. It was really too cold to do any assessments at the time, waited till I got back to the house to look at the photos. My elbow got pretty wet while I was taking the photos as the remaining carpeting on the sill was still wet.
Got home and had a close look at the pics ...they do tell a bit of a tale -
Shots of the inner fender and what I now believe is the problem area
and from the footwell:
Hopefully, these are the rust trails left by the leak - they're pretty faint as only some of the moisture is getting in down that path - seems like some of it is tracking down the harness and along the inner sill before getting into the footwell.
This grommet is obviously a known leak source and can develop into a SERIOUS mess, as noted when someone on another site found this:
The problem is though, sure the water is getting IN there, but from whence does it originate? Could the sunroof drain be cracked? (I tested it for blockage with an airline and it seemed fine) and if so, how difficult would it be to replace? Does anything else drain through that point into the inner fender?
Anyway, some progress but no remedies as yet ....
All possible scenarios/suggestions/wags gratefully received
I recall reading reports over the years of sunroof drain leaks or the suspicion thereof, and I think I've read of at least one owner replacing the drain tube, but I'm not sure how. If you don't find it here check the U.K. JF, Jag-Lovers, and XJ40.com.
If I'm not mistaken, you can access the upper drain hose connection to the sunroof tray by removing the A-pillar trim along the windshield. You might check the parts car first before you tear into your good car.
If you can access the upper connection, replacement might be as simple as fixing a new section of hose to the top of the old one with duct tape (gaffer's tape would be better if you have any left over from your disco days!), and pulling it down through the wheel well until the new hose has replaced the old. But could it really be that simple??? I suppose the hose may be partially clamped by the mudflap or grommet in the wheel well, but I can't imagine that it is clamped anywhere else along its length.
Well Don I had to go back 12 years to George Balthrop's post of 2004 ...and a very good post it was ...he describes the anatomy of the sunroof drain tube and also a possible remedy
The front sunroof drain tubes attach over a metal tube about 8" below and in front of the A-Post. This tube and the attachment point may be accessed via a trapezoidal foam plug, about 8" wide, located outboard of the A/C Blower (on either side), high over the fuse box.
Can't wait for it to warm up! will keep the thread updated; I can't be the only guy with this symptom!
Well today the weather has warmed up a little bit, at least above freezing for now.
Forecast is for a week of heavy rain but it held off today so I thought it might be a good day to have another look.
Took off the knee bolster and fusebox covers and peeled back any remaining carpeting around the periphery of the footwell. Shop towelled everything dry.
Next removed mudflap, sill end and inner plastic wheel well liner. Placed some bright lights up inside the fender.
To see if the leak came from the plenum, opened the hood, hosed the windshield and directed most of the water into the plenum. Drain was clear, water streamed out of the duckbill drain, no problem.
Took a look inside the cabin and whaddya know, there was a small amount of water already .. I carefully mopped up the small pool and switched on my Pelican LED lamp searching around for the source - the front wheel well side corner had a tiny rivulet but it wasn't obvious where it was coming from.
I placed a dry shop towel under the previously suspected wiring grommet area and yes indeed, the towel got wet. That WAS where water was getting in - but how did it get there if the sunroof area/tubes hadn't been tested yet?
As I'd confirmed the entry point, I hooked up the garden hose and clipped it under the wiper blade. With the hose on a slow flow I directed the stream toward the corner of the windshield & the hood/fender.
When I looked inside the wheel-well, I was surprised to see water pouring down the harness toward the grommet BUT not coming from the sunroof drain tube as I'd suspected, but from the windshield drain channel which terminates DIRECTLY ABOVE the sunroof drain tube pass-through.
So not really a faulty component but an example of bad design.
I suppose the idea was that the rain would cascade from the channel and fall away harmlessly (maybe ..rust trap!) draining out the bottom of the fender. Well it doesn't!!! It runs out of the channel on to the sunroof drain tube pass-through pipe and right on to the bottom wiring harness. From there, it wends it's way down the big rubber corrugated sleeve and into the cabin, initially just a tiny capillary action seep, then later, nice and damp for long periods allows silt and rust to swell the gap eventually making a nice regular path for the rainwater.
If the channel were designed a little longer, maybe it would work - but as it sits, it's just a matter of time before all cars leak at that point.
To remedy it as best as I could, I slit a length of hose and "impaled" it on the channel, securing it to the upper harness with a zip tie. I removed the lower grommet and cleaned the slot as best as I could, finishing up with a fingerfull of silicone sealant around the edge.
In theory, the hose I fitted should divert the stream away from the harness but just in case it won't, I went with the belt and suspenders method - hose PLUS sealant.
Here's a couple of pics that hopefully show the issue - difficult to get any better shots, but hopefully they show what was going on.
We'll see what the rains bring - I've left the rugs out for now ...
12-29-2016, 02:25 AM
Wet Carpet
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