My DW just got a digital hearing aid a couple weeks ago and we went for a drive in our 2003 XKR for the first time today.


Apparently the ultra-sonic sensors that are used to monitor the passenger seat interfere with the hearing aids and cause a terrible clicking noise in them. The main issue is the sensor over the center overhead console over the windshield as she only has a hearing aid in her left ear. If we cover this with our hand the issue seems to stop. I was considering fashioning a cover to fasten into place but looking at the manual there are instructions not to cover or obscure the sensors.


I'm wondering if anyone can offer any suggestions or insight into this; the ramifications of covering the sensor; or any other suggestions.


The only thing we can think of other than covering them is for her to remove the hearing aids when in the car which is also problematic as she does need them.

 

You could perhaps phone Jaguar North America on this as it is a "health and safety" matter.

I suspect that the ultrasonic sensor monitors the passenger seat and disables the airbag if a certain mass is not there in order to protect children in the front seat.

 

The ultrasonic sensors definitely relate to monitoring the passenger seat for airbag deployment but from reading the manual it seems to be even more involved than just determining if there is a child or not. The manual cautions against covering these which wipes out my quick fix idea of just doing that.


I tried calling Jaguar USA today. the quick response, after the the CSR checked a bit, was that there is no known fix. They suggested I call the hearing aid manufacture or technician to see if they could adjust it so it wasn't so responsive to the frequency of the ultrasonic monitor but they couldn't tell me what frequency the ultrasonic monitor was transmitting. Told me to call the dealer. The service dept at dealer was sort of surprised they referred me back to them but they are checking through their channels to see if they can find out the frequency and or any other suggestions.


My guess is my options are going to be: Have her turn off hearing aid in car, cover the sensors even if it interferes with airbag system, or sell car. Hope I can find a better fix then one of those.

 

Same problem here. First time my sister rode in my XKR coupe, she thought her hearing aids were malfunctioning. The clicking is harsh and unbearable. After some problem determination, we found the same source as you, the airbag sensors. Worse for her because she has two hearing aids.

I really love my XKR, but this is a health and safety issue. Unbelievable that someone that needs hearing aids cannot ride as a passenger in a XKR so equipped (much less drive one - her hearing is fine with the hearing aids, not so much without).

What a stupid system. I've always thought it was overly complicated, ugly and delicate. Now we know it's probably in violation of the ADA also (well not really, see my follow-up post below).

Our solution - she takes her hearing aids out when she is in the car. Way to go Jaguar.

Best Regards, Fred

 

Ok, it's not an ADA violation. Per the Justice Dept website : "You can file an Americans with Disabilities Act complaint alleging disability discrimination against a State or local government or a public accommodation (including, for example, a restaurant, doctor's office, retail store, hotel, etc.)"

I guess I'll have to sell it if I ever need hearing aids.

Rgds, Fred

 

Well this thread has me intrigued. I wear hearing aids but never wear them in the car as the background noise drives me nuts, not just in the Jag, in any car. So I just experimented with mine and the ultrasonic clicking issue. Well I sat in the drivers seat, car in gear and heard no clicking so I had my wife sit in the drivers seat and I sat in the passengers seat, car in gear still no clicking.

I'm certain my airbag system is working as I get no warning lights and both the gauge cluster and passenger airbag lights cycle on start up. Also if I lift up while sitting in the passenger seat or lean forward against the dash the airbag light comes on as it should.

Might be the type of hearing aid you guys are using as I have no issues. Mine are Oticom Nera Pro and tuned for high frequency only as my low frequency hearing is good.

 

Thanks for the info and for running the test. I'll check with my sister for brand, model and tuning and revert back.

Best Regards, Fred

 

Word back from the dealer is that the ultrasonics work on something around, or above, 40khz, so I'm surprised it is a problem.


But I just remembered a major problem with our XKR and our iPhone 4 a few years ago. Seems that the noise reduction system in the iPhone 4 reacted to the ultrasonics (see this thread https://www.jaguarforums.com/forum/x...ne4-ack-39164/)


I wonder if the current problem is a similar issue with the hearing aid's noise reduction system. We're going to ask the hearing aid specialist if they can set up a mode (they can program several into the unit) that has no noise reduction and see of that works. I'll report back in a couple of days.

 

Huh, that's interesting
My wife's iphone picks up clicking interference also, I couldn't figure out why only in the Jag
Guess now I know

 

Our problem went away when we got the iPhone 5 a couple years ago. Also, with the 4, we didn't have the noise if we used the speaker (hands free) or headset.

 

For the first time, my wife tried to use her iPhone 5s in the XKR yesterday (I was driving) and she had the sonic clack. No problems with the Bluetooth headset. When parked, I verified that my iPhone 5s has the same problem - Bluetooth ok, native phone mic bad.

Stupid, overly complex, needless design by Jaguar. Good thing I only use my phone in the car w/Bluetooth headset.

Rgds, Fred

 

We haven't really found any solution to the hearing aid issue. The tech department of the hearing aid manufacturer was aware of the issue with the Jaguar's having this system and had no solution. Apparently this is a big issue with digital hearing aids with feedback prevention and noise reduction.


We tried a setting on the hearing aid that turned all the noise reduction off and it improved the clicking from the Jag's system but did not eliminate it. So for now the only solution is for my wife is either to keep the ultrasonic sensor covered or to just remove the hearing aid in the car.


Very unfortunate.


newXKRguy: I'm very surprised that this issue, which went away with our iPhone 5, returned with the 5s. Next time my daughter comes over I'll check it out with her new iPhone 6 just out of curiosity.

 

Thanks lsimon, We were surprised to see the issue with the 5s also. Same advice as you from my sister's hearing aid provider. Not really any better with noise reduction off.

Jaguar's don't give a *** attitude toward what is obviously a real defect makes me want to sell the car on principle alone. I would even pay for a solution if Jaguar would offer it.

Rgds, Fred

 

I wear hearing aids, but never experienced this problem, for when in a car I always remove them because of all the car related noises.

Fred, sounds like you have a thing against Jaguar based on each of your notes. Overall, I doubt you even like Jaguar and this just gives you another avenue of issue's with them. I'm not chastising you, I'm just pointing out what we read between the lines of your notes.

I'm sure that the engineers at Jaguar didn't just build or buy this system without first checking as many avenue's possible to them. I see no mention of these problems mentioned in any material written by, or about Jaguar cars, because I'm sure, as in the others comments about the issue, the simple and most obvious solution is to either turn off or remove the hearing aid while in the car. If this was a major problem experienced by Jaguar, what about the folks who have fibulators, or other heart control devices. What a liability that would be.

Cheers.

Chuck
05/XK8 Conv. 1 of 200

 

This is a sonic problem, not an electronics problem so I don't think it could effect heart control devices unless they worked by sound. The problem seems to be the result of some digital audio characteristics that probably didn't exist when the car was designed. But it is still difficult to deal with.

 

Hi Chuck, sorry I'm not sure who the 'we' is that you are referring to. Do you represent all the forum members other than me?

Just so you don't have to read between the lines anymore - I first fell in love with the XK8 when my wife and I rented one for two weeks in 1999 to tour the California wine country. I searched for a XKR coupe for two years before finding the perfect car for me. I bought my XKR sight unseen in May 2014 after much correspondence with the original owner (we were still living in France at the time), made arrangements to have the car delivered to my sister's house for storage in her garage, and made a special trip from France to register the car, find a competent jag mechanic, and spend over $5,000 to have the car brought up to my specs for my return in August. I guess you're right - I really don't like Jaguars.

My XKR is my daily driver. I love my car. I look forward to every drive to and from work thanks to my XKR. That doesn't mean that I have to be happy that my wife can't use her phone or that my sister cannot ride in the car without removing her hearing aids.

Next time why don't you take the time to check my other posts before expressing your doubts.

Best Regards, Fred

 

The summary seems to be that over 10 years ago Jaguar failed to design for devices that no-one dreamed would come into existence some years later. Those recent devices were not designed to work with cars that already existed.

I'm struggling to see why it's Jaguar to blame.

 

The Jaguar apologists in this thread are missing the point. It's not about assigning blame. This forum provides data, positve, neutral and negative, for people who own, are thinking about owning, or who enjoy Jaguars.

This thread can serve as a 'heads-up' to anyone who places any importance on being able to use certain cell phones as a passenger, or who has need to use hearing aids with certain characteristics, in XKRs/XK8s equipped with the sonic airbag detection system. There is no fix for this characteristic of the car and this could be an important point for some people. This thread is no different than any of the other 'here's a design / manufacturing / implementation problem' threads that make up the bulk of this web forum - except that there is no acceptable car-based solution for this problem.

On another point, we have and love dogs. They are our constant companions. More or less, dogs hear from ~67 Hz to ~44 kHz and the 40 kHz emission of the Jaguar's sonic devices is well within this range. Depending on the amplitude, the XKR airbag detection system could be irritating, painful or damaging to our dogs' hearing. So, we take the S5 when we have the dogs with us just to be on the safe side.

Of course Jaguar is under no obligation to address this issue, but why some forum members feel the need to defend Jaguar (who doesn't give a flip about you - the dealer network is their customer), or assert that the problem might not be significant today for other peoples' buying decisions (today, not 10 years ago), especially in consideration of today's technology context, is beyond me.

Rgds, Fred

 

It's probably due to the way people post things without being clear as to why.

It can't be rocket science to bypass the ultrasonics for the few who find them troublesome but I would not expect any dealer necessarily to know how to do that. Hardly anyone's ever going to ask.

My STR also has ultrasonics but they appear not to upset phones or cats (haven't got dogs but cats have a wider hearing range anyway) which is interesting. Might help an auto sparky figure how to tweak those cars that exhibit the issue.

 

FWIW I can hear the sonic sensors, and I am neither a dog nor do I have a hearing aid.

The sensor on the B pillar is most noticable, probably because it is nearest my ear, though I tend not to sit on the passenger side very often.

From the schematic I would wager that the sensor is self contained and that it pulls a signal hig or low to indicate triggered or non. Would require some investigation, but it likely could be hot wired as always on.

The JTIS diagnostic tests might be a good starting point. The procedure to diagnose a bad sensor may include checking the output voltages which would indicate what they should be in differnt states.