Lots of information here and I have been reading..............

Looks like I will be getting a 70' E type from my uncle. It is a hard top, V12 car. Has not been started since 75'ish, but been in climate controlled storage.

I will respect his wishes with anything I do to the car.

My first thought is to do a Cadillac CTS transplant to the car. i want to be able to drive the car v/s looking at it in my garage.

Then I question if I should due to the value of these cars.

So I ask the following:

Are there fixes for the terrible Lucas systems?
Will this car ever be reliable to go on a road trip?

Has others done a CTS transplant? v/s Just a regular GM swap?

Is there a better option for a transplant?

I have not received the car yet. I have a 77Olds Cutlass (Beautiful shape, 45K miles) to get rid of before I have the room for this Jag. So I am gathering information and most importantly what I should do with this car to be able to present to my uncle so he can approve or nix it.

 

Sir! Drop that wrench and s-l-o-w-l-y move away from that CTS engine. If you have never before done a transplant of a current production computerized engine into a 40+ year old car, I would think about doing that v-e-r-y carefully. The problems of integrating that engine into an E-Type could be monumental. A crate small block would be much easier and has been done. But best of all would be to just rebuild the V12.

E-Type values have gone berserk. Even the S3 V12 FHC are starting to take off in value:
Price Guide Report
To stick in a GM lump under the bonnet will just kill the value of the car - will make increasingly less financial sense as time goes on.

The V12s are now very well understood, with known fixes for their shortcomings. There are specialists like Stew Jones Restorations who can help:
Stew Jones Restoration
When properly sorted out, E-Types are no more scary than most other 40-50 year old cars.

And, are you sure that it is a 1970 V12? The first V12 E-Types came out in 1971. 1970 would still be the straight six.

 

There are also plenty of people on this board who know these engines inside and out.

They tend to hangout in the XJS and X300 sections because the V-12 was also used
in those models. The E-type section is relatively low traffic, so you need to go and
browse over there. Once you start reading, you will pickup on who really knows
these engines and you can start asking questions.

With their help you can make the engine, and more importantly the ancillary systems
such as ignition/cooling bulletproof.

Upgrading and cleaning up the V-12 will keep the value of the car, and be far cheaper
than a well done transplant. It can also be done a little at a time while you enjoy the
car instead of having it in the shop for months or years.

Furthermore, it will be far more likely to be respectful of your uncle's wishes.

He might say ok to a transplant, but inside, his heart will die a little. So, think about
that too.

Yes to Lucas fixes.

And road trips? Ask Grant Francis, he has taken multiple V-12's completely around
Australia without concern. Listen to what he says when it comes to the V-12.
You can't go wrong.


++

 

OK. I hear the argument against a transplant very clearly. I like the idea of many of the electronic gizmos in a old car. I am a performance guy, and figure it would take me about two years of working on and off to complete it.

Again thinking out loud, how cool would it be to have a 600+ hp available in a E type with traction control, great fuel mileage, and complete runability. Maybe even have awd with all the extra room from the v12. Can you imagine the capabilities of a 600hp awd car with the weight of the E type. OK I am through dreaming of a huge mod build.

All that being said I would not do it unless my uncle approved and I think he would be honest if he didn't like the idea.

Long story short, he bought the car used in 72', drove it for three years, constantly worked on it, got married, and put it in storage. Not sure how many years later divorce set in, he lost his shirt but kept the car. 35 years later he is battling renal carcinoma, knows that I am a car guy and has talked to me about it. He knows I would not sell it, value it, and not let it deteriorate.

I have mechanical ability, and am not scared of english systems, but will have to learn them. Nuts are nuts, and bolts are bolts. They all come apart and go together the same way. I am not sure if interior and/or paint will need to be addressed. If they do i will have to sub that out, but I should be able to do all the wrench twisting.

 

[QUOTE And, are you sure that it is a 1970 V12? The first V12 E-Types came out in 1971. 1970 would still be the straight six.[/QUOTE]

That is a great question. I do not know the answer. All I have been told is that it is a 70 and has a v12? Maybe built in 70, but 71 model year?

I hope to be able to take a look at the car this spring and will be able to pull some numbers and hit the books on the car. When my olds sells i will have room inside the garage to keep it safe and warm with the rest of the fleet. So far I have been able to get rid of a truck and two bikes this fall so far.

 

Well yes, one would think so.... but your last sentence shows that you're not yet very experienced in the wondrous world of British machinery.

Stuck on a small island where it rains more often than not, otherwise rational minds can go far astray! Somewhat akin to cabin fever, but on a national scale.......

As the saying goes:
"Give an Englishman a bit of metal and he'll do something silly with it."

In all reality, I'd forget about the engine swap idea. Personally I've never been a big fan of the V12, and have passed on a couple of cars because they were so equipped. Nonetheless, I wouldn't consider swapping one out of an E-type.

 

The V12 is a far better engine than the XK, but it used so much petrol, it never got to big sales, so the straight-six XK had to be kept going until 1986 as most people, (apart from you chaps in the USA), couldn't afford to put fuel in the cars. If I could afford the fuel, a V12 saloon, (probably one of the last like an X305) would be the car I would buy next, but being a poor pensioner, the window of opportunity has now passed.

Although it has 12 cylinders, the engine has nothing exceptional about it, being fairly conventional in construction, although it does have an open-deck block. There is only a single OHC per bank and 2 valves per cylinder. Ferrari V12s were much more exotic.
The early electronic ignition system was a complete PITA, (Lucas Opus = Opeless !!) but can be swapped for the later one.

Have a read of this website: -

The Jaguar V12 Engine / AJ6 Engineering

There is also an article on converting from the rather useless carburettors to the later EFI system.

All good stuff !

 

I recently read an article about a guy building a race e using the v-12 and was setting it up to crank out 600 hp. I don't recall the link but if you search around you might find it. he was very open about it and gave all the tech details of how it was being done. how cool would that be!? and you would not destroy the value.

 

Here's one for ya....This guy, Bob Tullius, was part of The Quakerstate racing team that raced in any number of SCCA races in the 60s, 70s, and 80s. His stuff was "boss". I purchased a number of his TR4 racing parts in the late 60s, early 70s when we campaigned a 65 TR4. I know I got off track here, but, mentioning that V12 Jag, got me regressing.
Happy New Year all

 

An original 'E' and your first thoughts are to gut it. Ran that idea past your uncle yet?

 

Depends what shape it is in. That I don't know, and I am fairly positive he does have a real working knowledge of the car either.

I am curious about getting big hp from the 12. I will have to read links. Thank-you for that. I am a solid six months from seriously talking delivery of the car. I live about 300 miles away. If we get down to visit (he and his wife travel allot) when he is there I hope to sneer a peak at the car, maybe take some pic, get a VIN etc.

Already there are people here giving huge amounts of info. I really appreciate it, and already am realizing at CTS transplant is going to be a bad idea on many levels.

I have more reading to do now. Thanks!!

 

I think I found what you are talking about. Interesting stuff.

http://www.jaguarv12etype.com/performancebuilder.pdf

 

Not to be snarky but, realistically........where would you use 500-700HP? Certainly the track as there are very few safe places on the road where that amount of horsepower can be safely expressed.

You can never have enough. That is why my first thought was a CTS power plant. 650hp in a small car like that just sounds like a hoot.

I would not consider this as I do not have the build skills, but what if you made it AWD? Think of the corner to corner pull it would have............ Insert pic of me drooling all over my key board.

Has anyone explored the idea of forced induction? With the low compression of this engine, and terrible head flow a turbo could do wonders. It would need fuel injection with computer management which should already exist.

 

You really should not do anything to the car except re-commissioning it to ensure that it is roadworthy and reliable.
Then run it for a year to get used to it.
If, after this time you still want to modify it in any way, there are three mods you should consider.
The Lucas ignition system (Opus) can be changed for an improved system which retains the original look.
If that is not good enough you can change the fuel system to EFI using parts from a V12 HE engine.
The gearbox can be changed for a 5 speed unit (assuming that the vehicle is a manual)
And that's it, although I have heard of the alternator being changed for a non Lucas alternative.
If the paint is in reasonable condition, leave it alone.
These cars are now desirable classics, especially in Europe, and an original, low milage example that has not been butchered is worth a lot of money, so if you want it to be an investment, re-read my first line.

Having said all that, I have a '72 with 31k on it which has been sitting in my garage since '85, and I have had it recommissioned with new hoses, suspension bushes and shocks, servo's etc, brake discs and much more. I remember the atrocious fuel consumption when I used it as my daily runabout in the '70's, so I have purchased a V12 HE engine out of an XJS and will convert my E to EFI and also change the 4 speed gearbox to five
speed this summer ....... BUT I will retain the original carbs, inlet manifolds and gearbox so that it can be converted back to original spec with matching numbers if required.
Hope this helps you to make an informed descision.
Regards, Paul B.

If

 

As the saying goes:
"Give an Englishman a bit of metal and he'll do something silly with it."

Do you mean 'He might build something like a Spitfire or a Concord?