New forum member, really like the useful advice and positive engagement I see here. Thanks for the information you all have shared, especially on manual transmission cars. Here is the issue I am trying to scope out before I write the check to buy out this lease on this 2017 type S with 6-speed manual transmission:

• Engine vibration in the driveline felt primarily through the shifter, most often when decelerating with the clutch engaged between 30-50 MPH, foot off the gas, gears 2-4 (other speeds and gears too, this is where most noticeable)
• Not every time, maybe 3 out of 10. Some days it seems more often, other days, maybe I'm just getting desensitized, If I try a few times in a row I can repro it occasionally.
• With clutch engaged as RPM passes through about 2400-1900, a "shudder" can be felt through the shifter consistent with engine RPM for 1-2 seconds
• Also occasionally feel it (much more briefly) in the same RPM range if I just disengage the clutch and let the engine spin down from 2500-3000, happens as revs pass below 2400 RPM down to about 1900, then smooth.
• Shudder stops instantly and consistently when dropping below 1900 RPM, same experience in higher gears at higher speeds
• Engine RPM-specific (not driveshaft RPM)
  • With the clutch engaged and decelerating, if I ease onto gas and hold, the shudder stops immediately, no shudder under acceleration
  • If I speed back up to 2500 and ease off, 3 out of 10 times it will reoccur (consistently inconsistent!)
  • Occasionally happens in more narrow range 2100-1800, and more briefly
  • I do not note any difference with changes in outside temperature, wet versus dry, etc. Begins after the car has been driven perhaps 5 minutes (have not observed when first starting out).
• Dealership service department has been involved and accomodating (it's an unusual car), sent out head mechanic with me for 35 minute drive in May 2018 (and a couple times since). Naturally repros on those days seemed fewer but it did happen, very brief at 1-2 seconds duration.
• No error codes showing up.
  • His impression was software-controlled engine management, gave me a new Land Rover to drive while they kept it for a day, ensured completely updated all software (there were several known updates pending).
  • Returned to mechanic the next day and asked him to take it home overnight (35 minute drive each way, you get a feel for people, I trust this guy).
  • Next day, he reported he really did not notice anything unusual, but acknowledged that in manual cars (fewer than a dozen or so in his experience at the dealership), he ascribed the sensation more as "character". I did not feel blown off, he has a point. We talked through engine management systems, clutch function, and how these differ in this car from what I might term 'legacy' (no software, delay valves, etc) manual transmissions (I won't go into how removing the clutch delay valve on my BMW '07 335i 6-speed MT changed my life for the better, different forum).
  • Could not get sufficient repros to take any other actions after discussing with his factory contacts in the UK.
  • Mechanic stated he documented the reported behavior in the service history for future awareness in case a similar issue is reported with other cars.
• Since I leased the car early 2018, this behavior has not changed in 3 years and about 9,000 miles of mostly backroad pleasure driving.

Bit of a long-winded post, I'm very interested to know specifically if other owners of manual transmission Model S cars experience this (as well as those with automatics who use paddle shifting). I'm hoping it's a "known" behavior and not serious because I freaking love this highly equipped, very special car and I want to keep it.

 

I do experience this as well. Honestly, I never paid it any attention until I came across another user talking to his dealer about it:

https://www.jaguarforums.com/forum/f...00-rpm-243478/

 

I do experience this as well. I speculate this has to do with lack of factory balancing of rotating mass (crank + pistons) and the fix is very expensive process of taking the engine apart to blueprint it.

 

Preface...I'm not a he/his/him...

That said...just literally got off the phone a few moments ago and the official Jaguar position is, based upon service manager with ZERO manual transmission experience but is what corporate will rely upon, that this is 'normal.' They are offering a whopping $300 certificate for the 'inconvenience' of me having been without my car since roughly the 20th of last month.

They STILL offer no explanation as to why it did not do this when the Gen 1 clutch was replaced and the Gen 4 clutch installed, albeit with the Gen 1 flywheel remaining in place but with a resurfacing. A condition that DID NOT exist with a NEW clutch and that gradually becomes discernible and is getting worse is NOT a normal condition!

 

Thx for letting me know @mbelanger , super disappointing response from your dealer. In one of these posts, I saw a link to the UK customer service factory reps, going to search for that one and seek an assist there, in parallel return to my local service manager for a revisit of the issue.

 

@mbelanger I went to that subforum and see you just posted. I'll be interested to monitor for a reply. Good luck to you.

 

This is all very interesting as I've noticed the same thing....

• Engine vibration in the driveline felt primarily through the shifter, most often when decelerating with the clutch engaged between 30-50 MPH, foot off the gas, gears 2-4 (other speeds and gears too, this is where most noticeable)

But as I've only been driving the car for less than two months had yet to pin it down. Having driven MT all my life, I just throught it was a little irritating. Certainly doesn't happen in my S4 Avant V8 MT but that now has 227,000 miles on it so I get vibrations from slightly out of true wheels. Will be watching...

 

@mbelanger I hope all is well with you. I just connected with a mechanic at another dealership who is willing to take a deeper look into my symptoms given we have some good forum history here from you and others. I'm glad to see your problem was resolved! I'd like to reference the UK Subforum mentioned above but it's been so long I lost track. Would you or @Unhingd kindly provide a pointer to that subforum with JLR folks in attendance? Trying to give this mechanic as much insight as possible.

 

This one? https://www.ftypeforums.co.uk/index.php

 

Thank you @scm yes that forum, however I was trying to find a post I had made there on this topic but I had to register on the UK site just now as though it's my first visit, so perhaps authentication changed somehow. Or I posted somewhere else! There were reps responding from JLR to related issues but I may be incorrect, it has been many months since March!

 

Jaguar Customer Services respond in this section: https://www.ftypeforums.co.uk/viewforum.php?f=30

 

Sorry...just saw this.

My issue was largely resolved when they replaced the clutch AND flywheel just shy of the expiration of the warranty. The flywheel was not replaced when the first clutch was replaced just beyond the 1K mile mark.

I've now added another ~14K miles (a couple of trips from Houston to Vegas will add miles in a hurry).

 

Thanks so much for confirming this detail @mbelanger , have a date for an appointment 3/22 (pandemic impact on their workflow) and in useful dialogue with mechanic and service manager. Hoping they can confirm quickly and execute replacement.

 

UPDATE: 4/12/22
Had the service appointment with the mechanic mentioned back in November, great guy, he read this forum entry through ahead of seeing the car. He drove the car and fortunately he reproduced the driveline vibration in the shift lever multiple times and in different gears (I warmed it up thoroughly ahead of time after noting it became much more consistent after ~30 mins of driving). He went through his procedure and was able to verify that the dual-mass flywheel damper springs were sticking intermittently. Jaguar agreed to warranty the flywheel T2R20968 and 2 bolt sets T2R15200 (10) and T2R15201 (6), on order. The initial read by the service advisor on my request to replace the clutch and pressure plate (T2R27466) and Slave Cylinder with throw-out bearing (JDE32591) is that these are wear and tear parts replaceable at owner cost ($765 before tax). Having read the suggestions here to take this up with Jaguar CRC, that seems a good idea and she immediately offered the 1-800 number. I went ahead and paid for the parts to get them ordered to be installed along with the warranty parts. I'll provide a further update when we have the parts installed. I'll reach out via the uk forum as well mentioned earlier by @scm and see if I can get support for clutch parts reimbursement there, While we're not done yet, I'm just happy to have a confirmed diagnosis and an agreement to move forward.

I have read about challenging dealer experiences in this and other threads (I've had a few as well) and I have to say I have had a very positive experience in the service department at JLR Seattle in Lynnwood, WA. The people with whom I have interacted there prioritize F-Type care and clearly make an effort at providing good customer service. My original salesperson transferred there some time ago and was able to get me in for a prioritized appointment last fall, which is how I was able to make finally make solid progress after several visits to another dealer. It makes all the difference to have people who care about the customer and the marque.

 

I am new to this thread, but have some news.

The diagnosis for these vibrations seems to be identified by @scotter , "the dual-mass flywheel damper springs were sticking intermittently"

I am starting to develop a Single Mass Flywheel solution for the F-Type, with a reputable firm that makes similar solutions for Porsche/Audi/VW and BMW cars.
This kit will be an alternative to the Jaguar OEM parts, and offer the enthusiast a lighter weight, less complex solution.

Link to a thread on options: See post #9 onward
F-Type Clutch Replacement Options

Feedback welcome... or PM me.

 

I read this original post awhile back, and came back to it today, because I also have a 2017 MT and recently noticed this shudder. I'm off factory warranty... any guesstimate what the remediation for this would run? 4th gen clutch has been in for about 10,000 miles

 

@Valerie Stabenow
Sorry to hear of your F-type’s shudder issues. It may be coming from the radial torsion springs inside the Dual Mass Flywheel.
I am wondering if your car had both the Flywheel and Clutch upgraded in the past few years, or just the clutch kit.
Either way, it sounds like you may need to address this issue in the next 10-20 k miles.

If you go to the link above in my previous post, thread titled: “F-Type Clutch Replacement Options” started by @jboers …
we will keep the forums updated about the development of an alternative solution to Jaguar OEM parts.

Note: I just purchased a set of OEM style parts from a UK auto parts supplier for about $1400.
I think the price from Jaguar Dealers would be closer to $1800 for the same parts.
(Flywheel, Friction Disk, Pressure Plate, Release Bearing, Flywheel Bolts, Pressure Plate Bolts)
Then you can opt for Jaguar Dealer, or 3rd party repair shop to install these parts.
Changing the Jag OEM self adjusting clutch (from SACHS) only requires one special tool to install the pressure plate under tension.
Most modern repair shops should have this tool (or equivalent) on hand, otherwise nothing special is needed to replace the components.
Most repair folks have stated a clutch job on the F-Type is a simple job.
The labor would be about 6~10 hours or $1000-ish. (Anybody have other input? )

 

UPDATE: April 28. 2025 (3 years later, 12,200 miles)
Summary: In May of 2022 at 10,600 miles, clutch and DMF, slave cylinder w/throw out bearing, bolts etc. replaced with help from warranty and Jag CRC assistance May 2022. General symptoms of vibration (a "shudder") in shift knob) did decrease in the frequency of the occurrence. Most of the time there was no shudder in shift knob when decelerating with clutch engaged in any gear, previously I had experienced it most often in 2nd and 3rd in normal around town and back roads driving (see detail at beginning of this thread). By August of 2022, the frequency of the vibration occurring was up to about 50% of the time (having driven the car only a few hundred miles for club events and to keep fluids moving, moisture-free). I lived with it for a few hundred more miles until this year as it now it happens a lot.
NOTE: the master technician noted on the work order in 2022 "The Dual Mass Flywheel dampening springs were sticking intermittently" in writing up the justification for replacing these parts under warranty.

Today: At 12,200 miles. JLR of Lynnwood, WA who did the work in 2022 (excellent work) is no longer servicing Jaguars. Thanks to a referral by @jboers I learned of the team at Jaguar of Tacoma where his slipping clutch was successfully repaired (slippage was not my issue). To date Jaguar of Tacoma have been excellent to work with on other services like trans, diff and brake fluid changes and a few other repair item unrelated to the drive train. They are currently reviewing the shudder in the shift knob which is now happening about 80-90% of the time when decelerating between 2400-1900 after revving to over ~3500, again most easily reproduced in 2nd and 3rd gears but can happen in all. I'll note that I can also detect the shudder much less directly but still there in the steering wheel, the shift knob and my right leg resting on the transmission tunnel when off the throttle, which was true earlier but I had not noted it here. The vibration directly correlates to engine rpm and is the same in any gear, and (less noticeably) when the clutch is disengaged.

We have verified latest generations of clutch and flywheel were listed on the Lynnwood work order in 5/2022. Before we open up the clutch area again for inspection, we are discussing the possibility that everything may "look fine". If it does and we go ahead and replace parts (presumably at my cost, let's set that aside for a moment), there is a distinct possibility there will be no sustained improvement in experience.

Summary and a request: The most vexing aspect of this (beyond the fact that it happens at all) is the inconsistency of the occurrence, as I can go for some time drives where it does not show up or only briefly, when on other drives it is much more annoying, same roads, in a variety of weather (45-85F degrees, wet and dry). I'd like to ask the community if anyone who has had this symptom was able to definitively determine the root cause and a repeatable cure. In this and other clutch threads from @mbelanger @Unhingd @scm @SinF I have seen comments that possibly bits of clutch material or a loose spring my shift position and temporarily cause an imbalance in the flywheel (pls correct me if I misread this). This might correlate to the broken and causing inconsistent engagement of the DMF. It could go some way toward explaining he inconsistency that after the clutch is disengaged/reengaged or when forces are applied to accelerate/decelerate without disengaging the clutch, the shudder sometimes disappears for a cycle to two (or more) and then occasionally reoccurs.

Thanks everyone for sharing your insights and comments to date.

 

Do I get this correct: you had the flywheel and clutch parts replaced to resolve the shutter issue, yet the problem still exists?
It is unlikely that any loose bits from the previous installation are left in the mix after that work was done. You need to look elsewhere such as a bad bearing on the tranny tailshaft. I 'd also suggest looking at the driveshaft universal joints on older cars, but I don't know if the flex joints on the f-type would react the same way.

 

Your initial complaint (vibration on decel) was nearly identical to mine, and resolved with replacement of the original Gen1 complete clutch assembly, including the DMF. That led to a rear main seal too. That was not causing any noticeable issues when driving, but was noticed to be leaking when the DMF came off.

I did not inspect the parts in detail because they went back to JLR, but I did check them out. The dual masses were no longer sprung together and could be moved freely by hand. There were also some spring pieces that were loose in the bell housing. That was causing the later stage problems of intermittent failure to disengage and intermittent slippage. I haven't heard of any of the latest parts failing so soon but it is possible.