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Regardless of how old your car is, ceramic coating without paint correction by a trained expert is very likely a waste of money. Trained experts will make your car incredibly gorgeous once completed and well worth the money if you want a professional job. My F type R was Ceramic Pro covered with full paint correction....it was a new black car and you could see where the dealer prep guy scratched the surface in numerous places. The package I got took 4 days to complete and carries a 5 year warranty....the car now looks like a black flawless mirror. The job was done at a certified Ceramic Pro dealer and cost $1000. The procedure and the warranty appears on a Car Fax as well, thus adding to the car’s value to the right buyer since the warranty is fully transferable.
Agree with tzoid. It was more about finding the right shop/person with the knowledge and ability to correct the paint then apply the ceramic. For what it's worth, I'm very happy with the C1 EXO GTECHNIQ applied to paint and glass. Also about $1k with 5 years of protection.
The Hydrosilex product looks a lot like CQuartz, with the "reload" interim treatment. I'm pretty happy with that. It's also not hard to apply. I'm not sure how long it lasts compared to the previous product I used, which was a polymer sealant (Menzerna Powerlock). I never let either get to the point that it's overdue, but I think the nano-ceramic treatment gets the nod in overall performance.
For me, spending $1000 for polish and treatment is a non-starter. I have the equipment and skill to do a decent job, and the difference between that and the professional job pales in comparison to the abuse done from daily driving.
The Hydrosilex product looks a lot like CQuartz, with the "reload" interim treatment. I'm pretty happy with that. It's also not hard to apply. I'm not sure how long it lasts compared to the previous product I used, which was a polymer sealant (Menzerna Powerlock). I never let either get to the point that it's overdue, but I think the nano-ceramic treatment gets the nod in overall performance.
For me, spending $1000 for polish and treatment is a non-starter. I have the equipment and skill to do a decent job, and the difference between that and the professional job pales in comparison to the abuse done from daily driving.
Thanks. It seems to me as long as the paint is clean and free from contaminants, this can be a DIY project.
Thanks. It seems to me as long as the paint is clean and free from contaminants, this can be a DIY project.
It is for me!
I do have a random orbital polisher that I use with the gentlest polish beforehand, but that's DIY too. Color makes a difference. A jet black car is too much trouble for me. Dark grey metallic is a more forgiving. The Storm Grey is a bit on the dark side of forgiveness, but none of the 2016 colors were on any lots when I ordered the car, and it won the coin toss over Ammonite.
I do have a random orbital polisher that I use with the gentlest polish beforehand, but that's DIY too. Color makes a difference. A jet black car is too much trouble for me. Dark grey metallic is a more forgiving. The Storm Grey is a bit on the dark side of forgiveness, but none of the 2016 colors were on any lots when I ordered the car, and it won the coin toss over Ammonite.
I recently waxed my car (orbital polisher) and wonder if I can apply the ceramic coating on top of the wax. I've got an email out to HydroSilex with this inquiry.
I recently waxed my car (orbital polisher) and wonder if I can apply the ceramic coating on top of the wax. I've got an email out to HydroSilex with this inquiry.
No, I'm pretty sure that's contraindicated. According to the literature, it bonds to the paint, and they don't even recommend anything over the top of it interferes with hydrophobic properties). With the polymer sealant I previously used, some put carnauba over it for extra gloss, although I never did (not worth it to me).
I cant imagine any ceramic coating being applied over anything but a properly prepped paint (only) surface. If you have the patience and a "random" orbital, you can DYI the prep if you read up on it.
Here is the science. Water beads off ceramic because nothing sticks to it...including paint.
So what most manufacturers do is mix it with some glue that sticks to your paint. The stronger the glue the harder it is to apply. The weaker the glue, i.e waterbased, the easier to apply and shorter the life. The side-effect of water based (such as cquartz reload) is streak marks and uneven application. Because if you are not buffing off then there will be pooling in some areas.
But all rules are different for you. With a white or silver car you can get away with anything and this will work just fine for you. But you can do much better. Use sonax.
The question you should ask is why would you be applying ceramic in the first place, just to make drying easier and bird/tree droppings. Your car doesnt show dirt anyway. On dark colors, many of the ceramics (not sonax) actually attract dust. (Positively charged) This is the only ceramic I have found that does not have a grabby feel to it.
Q & C.....Regarding your comment...."On dark colors, many of the ceramics (not sonax) actually attract dust", my personal experience with 5 black cars (Viper, GT-R, Z06, Challenger Hellcat and now the F type R), Ceramic Pro on a dark car (say BLACK!) does not attract dust. In fact, after sitting 4 days in my 4 car garage where several of the garage doors are left open most of the day, there is some noticeable dust on the cars. When I leave the driveway and get less than 100' away from the house, the dust is gone...all of it blown off by the moving car. Looks mirror sharp even with very close inspection.
And second, I trust you have some substantial background in the "paint correction" arena. The statement..." I would never trust my paint with any detailer" says volumes about your experience with these professionals. That's a shame, truly, some/many of these folks in reputable shops, are true artists and quite gifted in their trade. But, that's certainly your choice, good workmanship can be expensive.
Here is the science. Water beads off ceramic because nothing sticks to it...including paint.
So what most manufacturers do is mix it with some glue that sticks to your paint. The stronger the glue the harder it is to apply. The weaker the glue, i.e waterbased, the easier to apply and shorter the life. The side-effect of water based (such as cquartz reload) is streak marks and uneven application. Because if you are not buffing off then there will be pooling in some areas
It's only the reload that is water-based. I haven't really used much of it at all. Still, my car is easily concourse quality; perhaps not concours quality, but I drive it everywhere, and that's to be expected.
I trust you have some substantial background in the "paint correction" arena. The statement..." I would never trust my paint with any detailer" says volumes about your experience with these professionals. That's a shame, truly, some/many of these folks in reputable shops, are true artists and quite gifted in their trade. But, that's certainly your choice, good workmanship can be expensive.
There are many incredible guys. However, here is the nature of the beast.
Say you gave me your car and it has a fairly deep (50% into clear coat) scratch in a critical area.
Naturally I want you to be pleased and show of my work, I am not going to leave that scratch there.
On my car I would leave it there, because the only way to remove it would be to level the surrounding area to that valley. I.e. remove 50% of the clearcoat.
Also, detailers would go broke if they did not level paint quickly and aggressively. Think of it as starting with 1000grit sandpaper.
If time is not an issue for a DIYer, you can buff with superfine 5000 grit and only in the areas that you know intimately where correction is required.
Its really one of the most satisfying hobbies and I encourage all to give it a try. Particularly in this day and age when so many delicate tools are available. You can get near zero cut pads and zero-fault orbital buffers. The worse that happens is that you dont achieve any correction, but you will by the 5th try. When I started, it was a wool pad and a single high-speed buffer, that could quickly go all the way to bare metal. Absolutely zero chance of that with an orbital and ultrafine diminishing abrasives, as in they disappear. Our old abrasives would literally compound and get coarser.
I tried cQuartz on my daughter's car and unfortunately it was a fail on the bonnet and part of the roof where there was existing damage which I figure must have compromised the clearcoat, then it sits out in the sun as well and we had a scorching summer. It worked pretty well everywhere else though.
I really like working with Reload though on my car and my wife's it gives an amazing gloss and seems to look good even when the cars are dusty. it is also super easy to use at half strength. I'll try their new product (Gliss) when I run out of reload.
Q&C....well, you’ve volleyed the ball over the net with your example and that 50% deep scratch example is quite an example. My experience would tell you the detailer would contact me telling me that there was a problem and give me options to handle it. As far as the necessary tooling and knowledge of polishing materials, if one would decide to make this his hobby, perhaps they could become really good at it as you are. Not me...ever. My time is more valuable and my few hobbies consume all of that valuable commodity. I’d rather pay for it and get a quality job then suffer thru that learning curve. I have a friend who learned to do ceramic tile work and laid his own kitchen and bathrooms. Not me, I paid an expert to do it. In the ceramic coating world, it’s much easier for me to throw $1000 at it and walk away 4 days later with a perfect and pristine job. To each his own, I guess.
Detailing is one of those things that you cant really pay other people to do as well as you can. Primarily because its reoccurring and it is not worth the other persons time in a professional capacity and environment. Not unlike driving and car ownership. Uber cant replace you properly at any price, not worth the uber driver's time. A live-in chauffeur possibly, but not on holidays.
That is why there are so many products now for the consumer. And hardly anything for the service professionals.
Just a decade ago, 3M professional was the only thing to use and only available to professionals at paint supply houses. Today hardly any pro uses them, they use much higher quality consumer products available everywhere.
All that to say this important point often overlooked. Short term ceramic coating like the one in this thread is the way to go. There are significant downsides to longterm ceramics. Basically you are applying resin on your paint that is loaded with beads of glass, metaphorically speaking....which will begin to fall off 2years or sooner. When that occurs you have to do serious correction to remove the resin that remains. Now you are cutting into the clear. Any scuffing and you have to remove the entire panels worth of coating.
Or you can simply apply a product like this every 6 months, and skip all the agony.
Paint correction is only necessary for the resin based pain in the **** systems. If you have a new car or just got it from a good dealer, it already has paint correction. Or if you have washed it carefully, you have a good surface.
Read the manual, it says to wash by hand. Dont know any car wash where they carefully wash by hand. Its not economically feasible. More reasons to learn if you love cars.
The question you should ask is why would you be applying ceramic in the first place, just to make drying easier and bird/tree droppings. Your car doesnt show dirt anyway. On dark colors, many of the ceramics (not sonax) actually attract dust. (Positively charged) This is the only ceramic I have found that does not have a grabby feel to it.
Thank you for sharing all your knowledge.
The reason I was interested in a ceramic coating is my new to me F-Type will be my daily driver and parked outdoors. Although we have a very mild climate here is Southern California, I would prefer a product that will repel airborne contaminants in an effort to keep the finish smooth and glossy without having to clay bar and wax frequently. These coatings seem amazing so I am naturally intrigued. I am not interested in dropping $1K for a professional to handle it. I'm pretty handy and confident this is a job I can tackle on my own.
What product do you think I should consider given my DIY approach and purposes for wanting a ceramic coating? Obviously, I'd want something that is easy to apply all the while achieving the level of protection I've outlined.
Its extremely easy to apply and its very good- from one of the best German companies that has to preserve its reputation. Note many reputable companies such as 3M, Dupont, Meguirs (sp?) never got in the ceramic coating game- cause it has downsides. In fact no reputable company ever did!! they are all from fly-by-night new companies..offering lifetime protection. lol
Since you are in CA, I would just apply once every 6 months. Take you 20mins. Big deal. Thats 40mins a year. As opposed to applying something that you only do once and hope it last 3 years.
BTW there is no need to strip wax or anything.
I applied polymer shield over ceramic- as it was part of the 2 stage coating. I love the the polymer net shield and could have lived with it alone. Thats how I discovered it.
06-17-2018, 07:37 PM
