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Reading various GTR and Porsche forums, a number of people switched to FFL-4 fluid.
FFL-4 is the same viscosity as FFL-3 at 100 degC & 49 degC, but about 50 % thicker at 20 degC. Not certain this provides any different protection at full operating temps. The FFL-3 is more likely to ensure proper lubrication at lower temps. Remember, lubrication is internally sprayed onto one of the lay shafts in this tranny.
I was able to find a couple samples of used Pentosin FFl-3 and the additives look nothing like the sample you submitting. Phosphorus in the 500 ppm range and not much else. Based on the (admittedly limited) samples we have, I'd lean towards this not being Pentosin FFL 3. One more step might be to send in a virgin sample if you can get one.
Our should be value for the viscosity of FFL3 is 41-53 SUS and that's right in line with a product data sheet I found online that was published by Pentosin.
So Jaguar T2R17199 does not appear to be FFL3 fluid. Next time I have some time, I will stop by dealership to get "virgin sample".
Update..thepressure rings are coming off today, so they can be assembled this afternoon orfirst thing Monday
I am guessing that I will get the clutch within the next week or two at the latest. I am uncertain when the lightened flywheel will be arriving. However, since I plan on waiting until my current clutch disintegrates (and it will within 15k miles), I will not be installing it for a while anyway. If anyone has an immediate need for a clutch and would like to try this one, let me know. I would let you have the one I have on hand and would turn around right away and order another one (no waiting). This high performance clutch has been designed to handle 500 lb-ft of torque, well beyond the maximum 430 lb-ft produced by a double-pullied & tuned V6. It has also been designed to be compatible with both the Spec lightened flywheel as well as the OEM flywheel.
I would like to offer word of caution, a better clutch (that doesn't slip) would require lighter flywheel or you will tear apart your drivetrain downshifting. This is what happened to me with second generation clutch - the clutch was fine, but everything else went.
I would like to offer word of caution, a better clutch (that doesn't slip) would require lighter flywheel or you will tear apart your drivetrain downshifting. This is what happened to me with second generation clutch - the clutch was fine, but everything else went.
I am not certain that's a foregone conclusion as long as you're shifting smoothly.
I found, purchased and had Blackstone analyze Pentosin FFL3 fluid. Once they send me more empty containers, I will send Jaguar fluid for comparative analysis. Either way, here are the numbers:
I found, purchased and had Blackstone analyze Pentosin FFL3 fluid. Once they send me more empty containers, I will send Jaguar fluid for comparative analysis. Either way, here are the numbers:
At this point I am all but certain JLR fluid isn't FFL3. Fluid that came out of my gearbox had 2200 zinc, 3000 calcium, 2000 phosphorus. 100C viscosity is 9.36 to 6.97 of this fluid. However, I am not certain at what temperature would gearbox operate during heavy loads. Any idea?
At this point I am all but certain JLR fluid isn't FFL3. Fluid that came out of my gearbox had 2200 zinc, 3000 calcium, 2000 phosphorus. 100C viscosity is 9.36 to 6.97 of this fluid. However, I am not certain at what temperature would gearbox operate during heavy loads. Any idea?
As long as the shims and tooth clearances are set properly, I have never come across a hard run transmission that was too warm to touch by hand, so I’m just guessing around 110-140 degF.
At this point I am all but certain JLR fluid isn't FFL3. Fluid that came out of my gearbox had 2200 zinc, 3000 calcium, 2000 phosphorus. 100C viscosity is 9.36 to 6.97 of this fluid. However, I am not certain at what temperature would gearbox operate during heavy loads. Any idea?
I don't have any hard data, just some searching around, but I'd expect at least 100C. A diesel truck forum indicated that people were seeing 200F without towing, and 225F towing in hot weather.
I don't have any hard data, just some searching around, but I'd expect at least 100C. A diesel truck forum indicated that people were seeing 200F without towing, and 225F towing in hot weather.
That would have been an automatic transmission. Those things will burn up when towing something, and usually have their own heat exchanger. I think we’re discussing the manual here.
That would have been an automatic transmission. Those things will burn up when towing something, and usually have their own heat exchanger. I think we’re discussing the manual here.
Nope. Yep, yep. Definitely.
The discussion I found was specifically about manual transmissions.
Thanks for the info. Have not previously seen this issue with manuals.
It wasn't really an issue, but a discussion. The question was posed about the operating temperature of the gearbox oil under heavy use, so I searched for "manual transmission temperature." The ones who seem to care the most are the ones towing, so that's where I got the information.
On further thought, I recall a neighbor talking about an extra large oil cooler for his NSX. That was prepped for high-speed racing, specifically timed stages, where accuracy wins. Sustained 155mph needed a bit more cooling. Don't know if I have contact information though, as they recently moved.
I know I am opening up Unghind's box from Pandora, but he makes for good reading. Lance do you think a cooler could exist for the manual. I know after 4 hour fast drive, things do feel a bit different. Of course there is heat sink in the s/c which is a factor, but a tranny cooler does sound interesting!
I know I am opening up Unghind's box from Pandora, but he makes for good reading. Lance do you think a cooler could exist for the manual. I know after 4 hour fast drive, things do feel a bit different. Of course there is heat sink in the s/c which is a factor, but a tranny cooler does sound interesting!
You already have 3 radiators up front (engine coolant, SC, & A/C). Might be a bit congested up front with a 4th. Does anyone know if the AT has a cooling coil up there? If so, you might be able to use that OEM coil for the MT, but would have to install a circulating pump and work out suitable inlet and outlet points for the tranny oil.
I know it's a different car and all, but the sportier C7s with manuals all get tranny coolers. They are kind of in-unit with the differentials, but the diffs also get their own coolers.
