Hey gang, hope everybody is doing great. I have many unrelated questions that would take me forever to try to find answers to, so hope you don't mind asking them here. Never owned a Jag, and I'm 61. I had to sell my favorite sports car (a 2016 Porsche Cayman GTS fully optioned), basically because it didn't have sport PASM back then (last year of the standard 3.4L H6). I want to get back to a sports car, BUT I also want something more GT, even if a little less satisfying to drive in the canyons. So basically a split-personality vehicle, if you will: Comfortable and quiet when in comfort mode, and a beast with everything in sport (or sport plus). And basically the lightest possible vehicle with just RWD (no rear-wheel steering, AWD, or any other crap like that). The Cayman was noisy as hell on the highway, especially the crappy quality here in the desert southwest, where it's super rough, so it was deafening at times. And the sport exhaust was just as loud inside in quiet than in open, which was disappointing. I don't expect the Jag to be Lexus quiet, but I want it noticeably quieter than the Cayman, if possible. And I'm here for answers. Here are some of my questions and concerns, for those who can help:
1. How does the P450 RWD compare to the Cayman S 2.5T with sport PASM suspension? And yes, I'm comparing the Jag to the H4, since any H6 has at least 10 grand over MSRP, and a loaded H4 would cost me over $100K already, and that's my self-imposed limit. But surprisingly, they have pretty much the same performance, mostly due to the Cayman being MUCH lighter.
2. What's the 'R Dynamic' option? Can't find it anywhere. And some cars say that, and others don't, but no idea what that is.
3. How reliable is the V8S? I assume the ZF tranny should be bulletproof, but please comment on general reliability. I like the engine is the old Ford design, since that means it should be well proven by now. Oh, and does it have port injection, direct injection, or both? I'm hoping for the old but reliable port-injection. Wish it was normally-aspirated, but figure the supercharger gets less hot than 2 turbos in the V.
4. I really want a good stereo, so the Meridian Surround is a must have option. BUT, read a review (SavageGeese), and a friend who owned a '16, both said it was crap. That all other Meridians were great, but for some reason, the one on the F-Type was really bad. Hope that it got revised with the 2020 update, or maybe later. If I can get a good discount, I'd buy a new one, since these things depreciate like crazy.
5. I also want the 'extended leather' option, but how can I tell if it has it or not? Because cars without that option, still have stitched vinyl, so hard to tell in photos. And please let me know of any other must-have option. I'm VERY disappointed this super expensive car does not have a front camera, even optional. That's crazy, with that long hood. The Lexus LC500 was the same, but at least they just remedied that with the '24.
6. What's the deal with dealers dropping selling new Jaguars? And that they were offered that? WTF? Is Tata looking at discontinuing Jaguar? That makes no sense to me, and it might impact not only the value of the car, but future service and parts. I plan to do my own services, but in case of recalls or something, there's only 1 dealer in like 300 miles around. Would have to check what they plan on doing. This issue might push me to look for a pristine used car, provided the Meridian supposed issue was addressed in 2020.

That's it for now guys. And no, I haven't test-driven neither the 4-banger Cayman S, nor a P450, since nobody has one. Well, the only local dealer has a '23, but they want $7,500 over MSRP, and they're aholes (bad experience with a LR), so it's like they didn't exist to me. At least the sales side. So will have to wait until I travel to Austin and CA in the next 2 months. Thank you.

 

I can answer one of your questions for you, number 3 (V8S engine and trans).
The engine in the V8S and P450 is essentially the same, its the AJ133 5.0 V8 supercharged, just different states of tune and some minor changes over the years between.
It's a very reliable engine with a few documented problems but no worse than any other performance car/engine. The main problem is crappy plastic coolant system pipes and a water pump which is prone to failure. It also needs regular oil changes, at least twice as often as the ridiculously long scheduled intervals, with the correct spec fully synthetic 0W20 oil.
It is NOT a Ford engine (this myth will not die!) and has zero parts in common with any Ford engine ever made and it has only ever been factory fitted to JLR vehicles. The myth that it is a Ford engine related to the Coyote engine family is because it was originally built in the Ford Bridgend (Wales UK) engine plant on a dedicated assembly line under a deal between JLR and Ford, and as a result it used a number of parts (mainly peripherals) with FoMoCo stamped into them.
It is Direct Injection only, no port injection, but it suffers only a little from carbon deposits on the backs of the inlet valves, nowhere near as badly as many other DI engines. The engine can get quite hot and suffer from heat soak (due to the heat generated by the SC) but not as badly as most twin turbo hot V engines.
The transmission is the ZF 8HP70 which is one of the best and most reliable/bulletproof transmissions ever made.

 

Where in Texas are you? I'm outside of San Antonio, and my dealer has at least 1 or 2 P450 F-Types. I just bought a R, and looked at them, actually drove one, they drive great. I had a 981 Boxster, and this is such a better ride, yeah, it doesn't handle like a go-cart, but it is pretty nimble, and the ride and road noise are much better.
I think the Meridian Surround sounds pretty good, my wife has a newer LC 500, with the Mark Levinson, and I don't feel that there is much if any difference.
If you are near by, I can get you a contact.

 

Thank you very much for all the info so far. I actually thought it was a good thing that the engine was derived from a Ford, but as long as it's reliable, and apparently IT IS, then I don't care who designed it. Ha ha. And glad that it doesn't seem to have issues with the direct injection. And a little sad it can't be had with an NA V8, but an SC should be more reliable than turbos... and it sounds better too. Can't wait to drive one, hopefully soon. I live in El Paso, TX, so far from SA, but go visit my 2 daughters in Austin often, although I go there via 290, right after junction, TX. I trailer my bike to Kerrville at least once a year (went in April), to ride the awesome 3 sisters (I've driven my sports cars there too), so it should be a nice place to drive the Jag too. We want to move between Kerrville and SA, so will start going to that area soon, to look where to initially rent a house, and look where to buy one for a year, driving around every weekend (that's why I want the sports car).

And very glad to hear the surround Meridian is not that bad, especially if it's similar to the ML on the LC500, which is considered pretty good. Wonder why people trash it then. I know you cannot have a fancy home stereo performance on a noisy vehicle, but the Meridian is at the top of my list. The best I've had was my ex-'21 Tesla; it was incredible (and stupid quick too). I've owned pretty much every V8 Lexus model, except the LC500 (I owned an RC-F, which has the same chassis, I think, and didn't like it), but just can't get past that it weighs almost 4,400 lbs, and that's without rear-wheel steering. The BMW M850i is even heavier, at 4,500 lbs, but it's AWD, so it's out. The 840i RWD is right below the 4K-lb mark, but still too big IMO. Fully loaded (including the Bowers & Wilkins upgraded stereo), the 840i is right at $100K, just as a Cayman S. Not sure if an 840i would be nicer overall than a Cayman, but might feel too big. I think the Jag should win easily, but want to drive all 3 first, if possible. Anyway, checked Austin, and they don't have a single RWD model, so will search SA. Also want to drive the H4 2.5T Cayman S, and 840i, so basically a 4, 6, and 8 cylinder. All 3 have pretty similar performance numbers; just different flavors of engines. And all 3 are pretty ancient too (ha ha), and on their way out, but I'm attracted to that, since they're supposed to be less likely to have reliability issues. Thank you again for the great help guys .

EDIT: Hey Piperman, so which car sounds better: The LC500 or your Jag? Should be a tight contest, since both are considered one of the best sounding V8s. Just curious. Thx.

 

One of my business partners has a cayman, he drove the f type and said the ride was much better. I think though that the P zeros ride a lot harder, personally I think you get a much better car if you toss the OEM wheels and rubber and go to forged rims and michelin PS4 or PSS (I hear continentals are good too), and that will also improve the handling a lot what what started as a very good car. Best money I ever spent on a car.

Extended leather has leather over the passenger side of the dash, I think. I have it on mine, it is kind of snakeskin on part which I guess is vinyl, and leather over the rest. It does improve the class of the cabin IMO so I would definitely look for it. Dark hex trim is also a classy look.

With the stereo, I dont know whether I am getting more tolerant, but I find for the music that I listen to the meridian 380 delivers really good sound, streaming spotify (actually I thought less so when I used to use USBs). You have to crank it up a bit as it sounds rubbish soft, essentially loudish enough for your spouse to dramatically roll their eyes is about the minimum you need. It depends on the kind of music you listen to, but for the kind I like with a decent heavy beat, I think it is good.

As for the future of Jaguar, supposedly it will become a one or two model more exclusive brand, like Bentley, but all electric. I'm not too concerned - the car looks better than anything cheaper than it and most cars more expensive than it, and that's not gonna change in a hurry.

 

Thank you very much for adding that. I'd get the Cayman S with sport PASM suspension, by the way, so now I know it's going to ride stiffer than the Jag; thanks again. But have a question for you, or somebody else who might know: What's the difference between extended leather, and full extended leather? I found a P450 a lot closer than I want than others, portofino blue with oyster interior... but it only has the extended leather (not the full extended). My preference is the tan interior, and that only comes in full extended, so I might make it a deal-breaker option. And as far as the wheels, the best for me are the stock ones, but don't know why all dealers order those ugly, heavy-looking black wheels, and pay extra for them. And same thing with the red calipers; this car has cheap calipers (front and back), so why make them stand out? I'd put that money on the illuminated door sills, or something else. Anyway, somebody mentioned that you cannot get the Meridian Surround on newer cars, and I think he's right. The option is not even listed on Jag's website, so it seems true. I didn't know there was a chip issue still, but maybe there is. Finally, looked at Turo locally, and no such vehicles here, so will have to wait until I travel to Austin or SoCal in the next few weeks.

 

Cheers, not 100% on the full extended vs extended, but the car in this review has full extended so you might be able to compare it https://www.carexpert.com.au/car-rev...type-75-review

 

The Meridian Surround in the F Type IS crap. Their is something uniquely awful about the F Type's audio tune. It's not bad in my 35t Pace but the "regular" Meridian in my S Pace sounds better. If it came down to the choice of one car vs. another, I wouldn't let the "Surround" influence the choice. In fact non-surround would be easier to do an aftermarket system in.
Extended Leather IS neat, until the headliner drops and the replacement headliner is $1200 plus installation. (Which is actually a pretty easy DIY). The leather on our dash is starting to lift as well. I have the Alcantara headliner in my S Pace and I like it a lot.
The choices that do matter are vert vs. coupe. Coupe is better IMHHEO.
V6 vs. V8. You have to drive both. They are very different experiences.
AWD vs. RWD.
Facelift vs. Pre.

 

The F-Type is a heavy car. I don't think it drives like a heavy car, but the aluminum the brits use is somehow very heavy.
The Meridian stereo is crap. My previous few cars all had much, much, much better sounding systems. It amazes me how much better the Meridian systems sound in any other car. When I got a Discovery Sport as a loaner, its Meridian system sounded far superior.

It's not quite a GT car. I base this on my own definition in how GT cars are used. There is ZERO space behind the driver's seat. It is a small cockpit (plenty big enough for me at 5'11"). Having said that, I drove 900+ miles straight, stopping only for gas, and I was comfortable.

 

HI There OP!

I JUST went through this exact process with much the same background/goals as you have. I came most recently from a '16 Aston V8 Vantage (and a Miata), and a series of Cayman and 911 cars before that, as well as a few random things like a Viper T/A.

Anyway, I searched for quite awhile for the "right" F Type (meaning price/color/options) - here are a few things I found in my search that may be helpful.

1) It was really hard to find a car that had the 770 watt Meridian AND a color combo I like. I eventually settled on a 380-watt car, and I'm absolutely fine with it. Info is kind of hard to come by, but my understanding from cobbling together various bits of info is that the 770 is just the 380 plus a center channel and either a second amp or an upgraded amp. But the 380 is fine.

2) Pricing was all over the place, but I had no problem finding between 5 and 10K off on leftover 23s. I didn't bother with 24s, because...

3) As I understand it, the R Dynamic package is mainly the R dynamic bodykit (side sill extensions), and in 23, AWD (vs RWD). '24 R Dynamic (the base package for 24 I think) is available in RWD. I did not want AWD and discounts were to be had on 23s, so it was a non-R Dynamic for me. Again, I'm not missing anything. I'm a 20 year HPDE instructor with a few time attack trophies to my name, and the P450, RWD, non R-Dynamic has all the handling I need on the street, and then some.

4) Extended leather - I THINK this can be seen by looking at the leather color on the passenger side going up to the windshield - it will match the seats. Easiest to tell on a tan or red interior of course, and I THINK the extended leather cars also have quilted stitching on the door panels like that on the upper seat area, but don't quote me on this - that option wasn't something I worried too much about.

I gotta run, but I'll check in this afrenoon, and I'm happy to answer any questions about my search. I'm in Austin, so I can give you my dealer thoughts in ATX/HOU as well. And Florida. (Don't buy from Florida IMHO.)

 

Hey, that was super helpful; thank you very much. Now I'm 100% convinced the P450 RWD has all the handling I'd ever need on the streets. I've done many track camps in both cars and bikes over the decades (61 here), but nothing like you. And I don't drive like a maniac anyway, even on empty roads. Just like to drive spiritedly when given the chance, and like to enjoy it. I was going to continue my search for P450s to drive near the Austin area, but that came to a halt after talking to the only dealer within 300 miles earlier today. The manager told me he cannot sell Jaguars anymore; his deadline was July 31st. He had a '23 red/tan RWD that I'd have bought if he had discounted it. Didn't even drive it since I wasn't going to pay MSRP for it, let alone ADM. And more disturbingly, he said they'll only service them (and parts) for FIVE years; I thought the minimum was 10, but apparently not. And he said basically all current Jag dealers will be on the same boat since they're going fully electric. This guy had to hang up, but he gave the impression the electric division will become a different entity; who knows. Guess we'll find out more about this in the coming weeks and months. Anyway, I've always bought new, and the prospect of losing my proverbial a$$ on this car in a few years makes no financial sense to me. I'd have to buy it super discounted, at least 10 grand below list. And even then, I wouldn't be sure. What do you guys plan to do with your cars? Roll the dice, keep them, and see what happens?

 

We are keeping our R for as long as premium gas is available.

 

I stopped going to the Jag dealer for service even before the 5 years of free maintenance ended. I found a good independent shop and have been much happier.

 

I don't even take my vehicles for the 'free' (more like included in the price) services, so I'm not worried about that. I'd be worried about recalls, warranty repairs, and parts.

 

My thinking was that I wanted to "graduate" to a somewhat "softer" sports car, and one that my wife could drive, meaning no more sticks. (I'll just get another Miata if I get the itch, but I digress).

Anyway, what I did was email the sales or general managers of any dealership with a 2023 that I was interested in, basically saying, "Hi - I want to buy (VIN/STOCK XXXXwhatever) that I saw on your website. I have a trade that I'd like xxx on (that number was fair trade value based on auction whole numbers, so they would probably stand to make about 3k on my trade in the end). If you can do 12K off sticker and meet my trade number, I'll send a deposit today and buy it by end of week. "

I probably pitched about 10 dealers. I got several of ignores, lots of sales guys asking me to come in for a test drive, and a couple of legit replies, including one that just said, "We can do that, how do you want to pay and when do you want to come by?" I got another that countered with 7500 off, and a few that said we only sell at sticker - you're lucky we knocked off our ADM this month!!

I really wanted the green/tan car at 7500 off, but after some dealer shenanigans from them (BS add ons, shipping BOTH cars was going to be on me, 1K Florida doc fee, etc.) I settled for my second choice - a beautiful silicon silver over red - at 12K off (and honestly I overshot expecting to settle on 10K off).

Point being, I got into my F Type for about 73K, and my plan is just to keep it. Nothing else has the combination of style, practicality, performance, and price, and plenty of cars out there to scavenge parts from long term, and independents will make a killing if dealers cut off support after 5 years, so I'm not worried. Plus, at 52 years old, if I get 20-25 years out of it, it's all cool.

My suggestion would be to see what 23s are left out there, get aggressive with offers, and understand that the newest F Types don't really have "must have" options (IMHO). Neither the stereo nor leather upgrades really make or break the driving experience, and while I know we all like what we like, to be honest, just looking at the sheet metal, hearing the car, and enjoying the way it responds will last a lot longer than the joy of paying extra because of the color of the dashboard leather.

 

Oh.. couple more things based on your original post.

1) The difference between "regular" and "sport" settings is much less than it is in a Porsche. Don't expect a true dual-mode lion/lamb. It's more like regular is pretty sporty, and "race" is kinda sportier sorta. If a Porsche is 1 vs 10, the Jag is like 4 vs 6.

2) Houston dealers are going to be better to work with than Austin or Dallas dealers in my experience.

 

@JCtx if you see anything that you like here. Call them and tell them that I sent you, Steve Naples
https://www.jaguarboerne.com/new-vehicles/f-type/
They know my wife and I very well, I know the GM personally, and most of the sales and service people, and they are great. I just bought my R from them last week.
I saw the BRG/Tan car, and almost bought it. It's on the showroom.

Steve

 

Can confirm that the team there is responsive and pleasant to talk to, but they weren't price competitive (for me at least), but I definitely would give Jaguar Boerne a chance.

 

We have bought 4 jags from them, and they are great, also 3 miles from my house. lol
They MSRP on the P450s that they have, are only 2300 above invoice. I saw the invoice from them, as well as my R which was the only R that they have gotten in new since '21.
Mine was a program car, so I was able to get a lot of break on the price. Since it was used for Press related use.

 

Hey, that was awesome help from both of you; thanks a million. We're actually going to visit Boerne soon, since we're planning to rent a house for a year either there, or in Kerrville, to have time to look where to buy during that year. And that's when I plan to drive this car a lot, going everywhere in that area where there are big HEBs, inside the area around Austin (incuding Round Rock, and even Georgetown), Dripping Springs, Fredericksburg, Kerrville, Boerne, New Braunfels, San Marcos, Buda, Austin. Going every weekend or 2 somewhere new to check out. Going back to the car, that green/tan in Boerne looks great, but no details. And it's a '24, it seems, so probably no deals to be had. And just like @TheGeezer, I wouldn't buy this car without a super deal of at least $7,500 off MSRP. So it'd have to be a '23, I think. And will follow his strategy of asking for 12 grand off, and see what happens. Will also price my trade at Carmax and a few others, and ask for their highest quote, and throw it in there too, to avoid losing the tax differential. Hopefully I can drive one soon, and more importantly, hopefully be able to scrutinize the base Meridian sound system, since it's going to be hard to find on a newer vehicle. But there's no way I'd spend this kind of money and the car not feel special, so the full extended tan leather with performance seats is a deal-breaker option for me. My exterior color preference is white, with the stock wheels (probably the lightest too), and stock black calipers, but I'm flexible with all of that ( just no black exterior color). Also want blind spot, and other important features, but most cars have that. Will keep you posted folks.