tl;dr: I'm fine, but the used 2015 Jaguar F-Type R broke down on the side of the road 600 miles after I purchased it. I'm replacing the engine with a remanufactured engine for $20k.

Now for the details:Bought a 2015 Jaguar F-Type R. Beautiful car on the outside. Had lemonsquad.com come out and inspect car; they gave me a 45-page report on the car with all green lights. (Lesson #1: A pre-inspection service is necessary, but not sufficient.)

There were some EVAP codes on the car for a small leak in emissions, but otherwise completely healthy, according to lemonsquad (these guys are a necessary evil, but don’t rely on their report alone). I did some research on the EVAP leak, prepared myself for a $2k fix to pass emissions in California due to their strict codes.

(Lesson #2: If there are scanner codes found, avoid the car like the plague! The salesperson texted me: “What the Lemon Squad guy told me is that these are small emissions issues, but the car has passed AZ emissions testing. I will see if we can clear them here.”)

I bought the car for $38k and scheduled a flight down to Arizona to drive back to California.

When I got to the dealer (Certified Benz & Beemer in Scottsdale, AZ), the pickup was a bit ominous. No one would make eye contact with me. The salesperson took me very quickly to the finance department, where they offered me an extended warranty. I declined because I want to get my own extended warranty with my local Jaguar dealer. (Lesson #2: get extended warranty from local Jaguar dealer before buying car.) I signed the contract. I go back to the salesperson, who is nowhere to be found, and none of the nearby salespeople even notice that I’m wandering the office looking for him. Like I said, plausibly-deniably ominous. I interrupt a few guys chatting nearby to go find the salesperson so that I can get the green light to go. Quickest car sale I’ve ever experienced.

I drive away and start on my trek home.

The contract has a 15-day, 500 mile guarantee (Arizona law). After about 600 miles, the check engine light comes on. Solid amber light, which Jaguar user guide says could be as simple as a loose gas cap; safe to drive but bring to repair shop asap to have them read codes from onboard computer. Totally inline with the research I did on the EVAP leak, which says the fix can be just to replace the gas cap for $10. I pull over at the next exit, check the gas cap (it’s fine; I open it up and re-close it so it clicks 3 times, like instructions say), and check underneath the hood (everything is in order; no gas smells, no smoke, no liquids in wrong places). I drive it gingerly, cautiously watching the temperature gauge because I’m in the middle of nowhere. Shortly thereafter, the temperature gauge spikes, the display shows “engine is overheating”. Within 30 seconds, I’m pulled over on the side of Interstate 5 with engine off in the middle of nowhere.

I call 9-1-1, and request CHP assistance. I call roadside assistance. For about 30 mins, my son and I wait on the side of the highway for the CHP officer to arrive. Thank goodness he does arrive, and he parks behind us with his lights on. Roadside assistance still reports they’re trying to match me with a tow truck. After 90 mins, the roadside assistance is still giving the same message: no tow trucks available. CHP officer calls nearby county to have a tow truck dispatched. It takes another hour to arrive. They say there are no nearby repair shops; they have to tow me an additional 60 miles to the nearest repair shop. At $300/hr for 4 hours of work, I get a bill for a tow bill ~$1300. Thankfully the roadside assistance reimburses me fully, even though their contract obligates them only to 50-miles max towing distance.

Repair shop says hose to expansion coolant tank blew, spraying coolant everywhere under the hood (temperature spike makes sense now). Head gasket set needs to be replaced.

Repair shop says it’s a $17k job, and you don’t even know if that’s the only problem they find when they open up the guts of your engine. Or replace engine with a remanufactured engine for $20k. Or brand new engine for $40k.

CBB calls me and asks for odometer reading. That’s the dealer’s first thought. I thought I remembered it being 60,100 miles (78 miles passed the 500 mile mark). It was closer to ~60,300 miles (278 miles passed the 500 miles mark) They say “sorry, it’s passed 500 miles, so not our problem”. I say “Check engine light came on at 60,000”, which was within the 500 mile warranty. The on-board computer says it happened at ~600 miles; 100 miles passed the 500 mile warranty. It happened on day 2 after I picked it up. Let me repeat that. On day 2, 100 miles passed the warranty, the engine had a catastrophic failure. I decided to go with $20k repair bill. CBB says “we cannot participate in this repair”. (That’s nice-speak for “we’re not paying”.)

So I’m stuck with a $20k bill for a remanufactured engine. If I had it to do over again, I'd do the following:

1. Pre-inspection test. If all indications look good, don’t stop there. This will cost you at least $200.
2. Compression test. It’s a ~$500 test, but totally worth it. If the head gaskets are blown before you buy the car, you might be able to detect it here. If the cylinders don’t hold compression, the internals of the engine are shot. After the $200 pre-inspection test, have this test run next before you buy the car.
3. Buy your warranty before you get to the car dealership to purchase the vehicle. (From what I've read though, blown head gaskets are not covered.)

My questions to you all: Do you think the engine was blown before I bought it? If so, how would I be able to prove that? Why did it run for 600 miles before the check engine light came on? (CEL was solid amber, not blinking)

It's a beautiful car though!

 

First, this totally and completely sucks. In every way. I feel for you. There's a real issue with early F-Types and cooling pipes. Though your mechanic said the "hose to expansion coolant tank blew," it was possibly one of two plastic cooling pipes at the front of the engine. Known weak point. Old pipes were made in two pieces, and the plastic welded. These welds fail, sometimes catastrophically. Without immediately shutting down the engine, you get serious problems. Most (knowledgeable) owners replace these ASAP. When I bought our F Type R, I knew about this and found one with these already fixed.

I really do question whether you've got a blown head gasket as a result, however. That sounds a bit fishy. And yes, there's absolutely a chance this engine had issues prepurchase. Perhaps others will chime in here. I'd have a competant Jaguar mechanic look at the engine and give you an independent assessment. And I don't think head gaskets are a $17,000 job. No way. Part of your independent assessment should be determining if anything was wrong at the time you purchased the car. Go over the prepurchase assessment with a fine-tooth comb along with a mechanic. You may - may - have some recourse with either the preinspection company and perhaps the selling dealership if they helped/recommended/assisted the prepurchase inspection.

There's enough loss here to probably talk with an attorney experienced in these issues. Someone more knowledgeable will probably speak up. And again, this totally sucks, for sure. I agree something fishy is up here.

 

Yeah, I agree that although not out of the question, head gaskets seem not as much of a sham stuck as they say. Also, $17k for head gasket repair?? I assume this is at the dealer? That's absolutely insane.

 

99% sure the OP is talking about the expansion tank hose and not any of the three plasti-welded large coolant pipes which are prone to split at the seam, see here: https://www.partsgeek.com/f89wwtr-ja...tank-hose.html
I had that exact hose crack/split on me a few years ago (twice - dodgy DIY repair the first time then replaced with new the second time), both times coolant sprayed all over but the coolant level in the expansion tank dropped only by a litre or two, the temp gauge never budged, I got no "overheat" warning but I did get a "coolant level low" warning. Both times I drive about 5 miles home very carefully and slowly and still the temp gauge did not budge, zero problems since replaced with new.
I can only guess that in the OP's case the crack/split was much larger than on my car and the coolant sprayed out much quicker.

 

Wow, that's crazy that a small hose like that can blow and bleed out all the coolant so fast. OP, I'm sorry that the car didn't warn you faster before the overheating occurred, and for the situation as a whole.

17k for a head gasket job? That seems insane, even for a Jaguar. What if you can get a different opinion on this from a reputed local indy shop, it may be more worth it to do that and a compression test than the new engine. Why is a teardown and inspection not a standalone option you can do?

 

Hate to hear this! Are there lemon laws that would apply? I would have an attorney check into any possibility, even a letter to the selling dealer might get some 'participation' from them for the repair. Any CarFax info/guarantee's in play? Not making it 600miles sounds off after a dealer inspection before offering for sale, then a third party inspection. But a hose that looks fine right now could give way tomorrow, unless you can see cracks, no one could possibly know that the hose was ready to go. If the head gaskets were blown (or any other major issue) before you bought, I don't know if you would have made it 600miles?

This is totally related to me and my recent purchase, but I did not trust the LemonSquad guys, they don't have the best reputation. This may not be anything they did wrong, but for others reading this, do your research and decide. I made a deal with the selling dealer to get the car into a Jag dealer for an inspection, with the option to return the car if anything major was found and they agreed. A warranty is a great idea, unless your going to modify the car in any way. Even lowering springs will keep them from covering any part of the car according to the 2 companies I spoke with.

 

Loss of the expansion tank hose by itself shouldn't cause massive coolant loss and immediate overheating. Something else must have lead to that hose bursting. I'd recommend a good Jag mechanic have a look. And as everyone else has said, head gaskets aren't even close to a $17,000 job. That's patently ridiculous.

 

OMG, that is an absolutely awful story. The only good thing is that CHP came fast and that you and your son are OK (heartsick, though, I'm sure).

Although my car is an MY2017, it was built in late 2016 and had the flanged coolant pipes. I pushed to have that all replaced under warranty and the JLR tech also changed out that reservoir pipe and the water pump. I think it's the heat that gets all of it. My car started out in SC, so probably not the heat that an AZ car would have been exposed to. This is also a manual trans car and there are stories of owners of brand new Fs with early MT that didn't even get the car home before the clutch went. Fortunately my F already had the 4th clutch put in.
This forum is the best place to get guidance and help.. I was glad to see Oz chimed in. I would really like to see what theRock says and/or perhaps Unhinged. You paid alot for that car, and now perhaps $20K more? But, it's a stunning car and I hope this all works out for you!

 

Glad to hear you pulled over immediately as that is key. Too many keep driving!
Great color too!

It helps to understand we don't have an temperature gauge as such. It's an temperature indicator. What that means is Jaguar has on purpose damped the response of the gauge so it stays in the middle... until it's too late. We don't really know why but the guess is too many people were bringing back their cars for repairs when nothing was wrong. The temperature gauge is SUPPOSE to move around but people don't like that.

We had a forum member measure the actual coolant temperature and compared it to where the gauge needle was. When the gauge finally went off scale the engine was past the overheating point.

Head gaskets maybe are blown now but these engines don't have head gasket problems unless they are severely over heated. So no point in doing a compression check before buying but it won't hurt anything either. I think as posted above a detailed service history is the best thing to get when buying a used car.

Also be aware it's VERY difficult to pull the heads when the engine is in the car.
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SportsEngineer, Really sorry to here about your situation, that really sucks. you didn't say exactly where in CA you are from or at least near a major city. If we know where you located near, then some of us could recommend a few good independent Jaguar mechanics to you for a second opinion.
If you are near the SF East Bay area, I would recommend https://www.bacchusbritish.com/ I've been using them for years and am very happy with them. I think they are very knowledgeable, honest and don't try to over sell you. If you are going to a Jaguar dealer you most likely going to get screwed.

Best of luck,
Wayne B.

 

Thanks for all of the support! I'm in the SF Bay Area, so I'll check out https://www.bacchusbritish.com/ when I need repairs in the future.

The car broke down about 50 miles from Fresno, so we had it towed to the Jaguar dealer there for inspection. The Jaguar service center ran a compression test, and that's how they came to the conclusion that both head gaskets needed to be replaced. The line item for replacing the cylinder head gasket set was actually quoted at $15,313.99; the other line items were things like coolant flush and replacing the expansion tank etc that brought it to $17k total.

I decided to go for the remanufactured engine; they upgrade all of the weak points (including the plastic Y coolant hose). It's being installed now, and it will have a 1 year or 12,000 mile warranty after installing. As part of the install, they also replace injectors, intake gasket, water pump, thermostat, heater pipe, and plenum gasket.

I still have the lemonsquad report; I'll go through that with a fine tooth comb. The shop installing the remans will also provide me with a teardown video of my old engine.

 

Totally sucks and frustrating I'm sure. Reminds of this Youtube channel where a couple bought a used F-Type that seized during there trip home after purchasing it. They document in the months long of the video series of the repair of the engine.

 

Perhaps it goes without saying, but I'm going to say it anyway. This is not a problem unique to Jaguar. The more powerful a vehicle is the much higher likelihood of hidden problems due to being driven well, like a high performance vehicle. Still sucks no matter which way you slice it whether it be a jaguar or anything else. However, I felt like perhaps if someone ever came along later on and found this thread the message should not be don't buy a jaguar but instead buying a used vehicle is always risky especially performance vehicles

 

I still find it hard to believe there is no legal protection for consumers in a situation like this... a motor dealer can say I have a 500km warranty, but our legislation says they have a responsibility to support the vehicle for 90 days regardless of what I sign as the law trumps all contracts (in other words - you can't contract away your legal rights). I've just had a $700 Garmin bike computer die after 2.5yrs, it came with a "12 month limited warranty" but our consumer law says products must last a "reasonable" amount of time which it considers to be three years for electronic devices. I emailed the retailer, they told me my warranty had expired, I sent them back a copy/paste of the relevant legislation, they put a new computer in the post the next day.

Research the law in your area and don't let the dealer tell you what your rights are, that's what consumer protection organisations are for.

Good luck

 

I have bought 3 cars from Benz and Beemer in Scottsdale. The last one I bought was a 2011 Porsche 911 S. I was going to get a PPI and they said they had a Porsche mechanic onsite that already did a full inspection. Needless to say I bought the car and within a short period of time (weeks) found out it was leaking fluid from the power steering pump which cost me over $2k to fix, not the $20k you are quoted. Regardless I was pissed and felt they knew there was something wrong with the car as well. They really tried to deter me from having it inspected but in the end it was still my choice and sadly I didn't do it thinking it was a waste of money from what they said. They are a car dealer and deal in mostly all high end cars. They are like any other dealer and looking to move cars with putting as little money into them as possible to maximize their margins.

 

These engines are tough, very rare for head gasket to go, but it can! , I've repaired alot of blown pipes and not one has a blown head gasket, but it's possible, replace the hose or pipe and run it for a while in your driveway, you have nothing to lose

 

We can contact the FTC here in the states, but good luck. It's not easily enforceable in this extra litigeous society. You have consumer protection laws where you live that other passersby I've discussed with from Oz or other countries in the EU have confirmed, are fairly painless to get in contact with.

Sorry to OP - good news is if you're getting a reman engine like a Tapa, should be a nice long runner for you.

 

Yeah, the general base law of the land is caveat emptor. Sure there are some protections for purpose deceit and fraud, but good luck proving the dealer knew about it. This is the challenge as the burden of proof is on the plaintiff. And there is a at least a non-zsro chance they really didn't know. Unfortunate all around.

 

I’ve watched 6 of the episodes so far, thanks for the link!

re: laws on who’s responsible for the repairs
The general feeling I have right now is that the head gaskets were likely blown before I bought the car. Someone put “head gasket quick fix” into the car to pawn the problem off to an unsuspecting consumer. Arizona law says as long as the car can go 500 miles without problem, the seller is not on the hook for any issues that happen after that point in time. The onus is on me to gather evidence that the dealer knew the head gaskets were blown before they sold the car to me. Plausible deniability is rampant in today’s day and age, so I’ll likely be stuck unless I find a smoking gun. I don’t give up easy though.

What I can say is: to anyone buying a high performance car like this, assume the head gaskets are blown, and that the current seller (or previous owner to the current seller) is trying to hide a problem.

Start with lemonsquad. $200
If clean lemonsquad report, then do compression test (the dealer quoted me $500, but and Indy can probably do it cheaper).
If compression test is clean, get sample of oil and send out for oil test to look for anything that shouldn’t be there (For example, if someone put that $25 bottle of quick fix to temporarily close up any head gasket leaks).

Maybe others here in the thread have good ideas on what else can be done before buying a high performance car?

 

In the UK our law says that any fault occurring within 6 months of purchase is deemed to have been present at time of sale so has to be fixed on the seller's dollar (pound really!). That's assuming it's not a private sale, of course. Hope you can get a satisfactory conclusion.