Maybe the OP can chime back in and clarify so we can end the debate. As far as credentials go, I will be staying at the Old Port Hotel in Maine in August with 13 other f type owners. When I return I expect to be an expert in all matters f type.

 

This car was purchased from Official Jaguar dealership. With factory CPO warranty. It was not some used car dealership that sells Jaguars. It is part of a dealer group called "Motor Werks." The building has Land Rover and Jaguar. They share the same service department. Mercedes is across the street (part of Motor Werks group) and the service manager there is temporarily running Jaguar/ Land Rover because the original service manager is no longer employed there.

I appreciate everyone's feedback. This thread has gave me tremendous amount of info to fight them with. I am meeting with the service manager tomorrow late afternoon. I will post a update tomorrow night.

 

Thanks for the clarification, it looks like Jaguar Hoffman Estates would be where the CPO would have originated. Definitely leverage the knowledge that others contributed here and ask them for the CPO paperwork. If the SM was let go & the new one may not know what he's doing you may need to go to the GM. Good luck

 

Correction: You must stay at the Hyatt Place Portland Old Port with an f type or have an f type and run with those staying there to become an expert (on the first weekend in August only). You must also complete all weekend activities. .....Back to you thread.

 

After a 2 hour boxing match with the GM, service manager and the "master" tech. Below is the readers digest version of what happened. I first let them speak and answer my questions of how the car, the ecu and reporting systems work. Then I laid the hammer downwith all the info posted on this forum. The GM's face was so red and ready to explode. I thought I might have to call a ambulance because he was going to have a heart attack. It was a bittersweet moment.

• They say that there is no time/date stamp on that code and they can not verify when the ecu was flashed.
• They do not keep records of what the codes the car had at the time of purchase, because there was no check engine light at the time of purchase.
• They say that Jaguar corporate does not know that the code existed on the car because they do not report anything neither does the SDD unit.
  • I told them that this is not correct, then they said that 2018 and newer gets auto reported because it uses a different/newer system?
• I mentioned that even if the PCM is replaced, other modules will have records of P167F code, and can possibly re-write the code to the PCM?
  • they said that this is not correct, because the code resides only on the PCM
• They ask me to leave and have a internal discussion on the situation
  • The GM phones some engineer and vice president of "something" at Jaguar (he never gave me a tile of VP of what title)
  • The person at Jaguar confirms that the PCM needs to be replaced and Jaguar wont cover it
• The GM comes back and tells me that they (the dealership) will cover the cost of the PCM and replace it.
  • He casually slides in that I will have to sign a release form.
  • I ask a release for what? He says release from any legal implications.
  • I told him I need to see the document ahead of time and will review it.
    • There is no way in hell I am signing that paper. They are basically saying we messed up, don't sue us.

My main concern is that if the PCM is replaced, is my warranty going to be OK? And does Jaguar really not get any records uploaded to them?

I realize that this is a situation I could constitute a buyback. But at the end of the day. I like the car, and it has all the options I want. I feel like I would have trouble finding one in similar spec. I just want to make sure I wont have any issues down the road with it.

 

If you want to play hard, you can ask for a longer warranty or some cash back.

 

Even though the dealer is absorbing the costs make sure you get a work order/invoice describing repairs and replacements for your records.

Cheers
DD

 

Stating the obvious: these guys are not be trusted, for anything now or in the future. If you keep this car, there is no guarantee that another dealer won't bring up a warranty issue later. You need to find a way to assess that risk, if it is something that concerns you.
The only trouble-free guarantee, IMHO, is to make them buy the car back then go to a different dealer or brand.
In a practical world, though, you may never need to worry about the engine-powertrain warranty.
Larry

 

 

If you want to play hard ball...Ask them to "put in writing" that the CPO remains FULLY intact. If there is any waffling on that tell them they need to refund the costs of the CPO because if the car did not qualify but they charged you for it then OBVIOUSLY they were committing fraud.

 

And I repeat for emphasis, the best answer is recision. Give them the car back, and you get your money back. They can do whatever the want with the vehicle after that. As long as you own the car you will have concerns you don't need. Frankly the illegal tinted taillight should have been enough to stop the deal in the first place. Will the car pass inspection? Can you license it? What type of user would tint the taillights in the first place. There are more F's out there. You don't need this can of worms.

 

Not a likely outcome. Dealers don't generally 'take a car back' like Walmart takes back a defective coffee maker.

Illinois Lemon law doesn't to used cars nor does the Illinois 3-day cooling off period. The state required 'implied warranty' expires 15 days after purchase.

Rescinding the sale might be possible by applying tons of heat and/or formal legal action. It isn't a pleasant process; dealers don't typically lay down over something like this. Saying "give them the car back" suggests it would be an easy thing. In the world of selling used cars you very seldom come across a "Purchase price cheerfully refunded" outcome.

Cheers
DD

 

Well.... they are not telling you the truth, either because they don't know what they are talking about, or they don't want to admit something.

#1 There is no way they could see the P167F without seeing the date/mileage stamp.

Here are some screenshots from SDD of a car with P167F




The mileage is recorded next to the code as you can see in the pic, it is also possible to see it by date if you click on the clock icon at the top.

IF they have reflashed the PCM using SDD. that date/mileage stamp will be updated to the date/mileage that it was flashed.

They will have connected the car to SDD to be aware of the P167F in the first place, so they will have seen a date/mileage stamp, and JLR HQ now has that info too...

#2 SDD reports EVERYTHING to JLR HQ, every time a car is connected to a dealers SDD, the session is saved and sent home.

Last year I was able to get hold of seven different diagnostic sessions of a 2008-build XKR, via a friend of a friend, the Pre-Delivery Inspection session in 2008 at one dealer, and six subsequent sessions when the car went back to a different dealer for servicing each year, the whole session and all it's data get's saved, including DTC's and date/mileage stamps. JLR can see everything, if they want to.

#3 If you install a brand new blank virgin PCM and flash it with SDD, the P167F will re-appear, and will be recorded with the date/mileage of that moment. 100% this will happen, there is no doubt.

 

In prison terms, you have a rap sheet. You may want to reconsider not trying to have the dealer take the car back. Otherwise some form of restitution (e.g.warranty, money)along with legalese paperwork absolving you not the dealer.

 

No body said it would be easy, and no body said it was like dealing with Walmart. However, the Uniform Commercial Code, provides for recision in cases like this. It is not necessary to resort to the Lemon Laws which were enacted in Illinois and elsewhere because of the particularly egregious behavior of those who deal in automobiles. Without doing any research I would expect this is a 45K issue for the OP. At least I would never have faith in that vehicle. That's enough money at least to me to get my friendly neighborhood lawyer involved. Maybe the OP should get the Illinois AG or the IL Consumer Affairs people involved. For the dealer the issue is worth only a small fraction of that. They can blow the car out at auction with whatever level of disclosure they decide to make or re-sell the car retail. For them its small change. If the OP were demand recision, and it was refused I expect the legal expenses would be manageable, and the dealer would have legal expenses also, and would expose themselves to action by the AG. I expect the dealer would take the car back and blow it out and call it quits. Just one persons analysis.

 

I used to sell very high end watches. If anyone opened an Audemars Piguet they would never touch it again even if you paid. Some shops say they can repair but where will they get parts? I think alot of high end products cover themselves, and get to keep charging for service, warranty or otherwise.

 

BJG, I wear a high end watch, not a PP but close. It’s a thousand dollar experience to open it up. Once the tune was applied to the OP’s car, it was marked. It can never be undone. That’s why it needs to go back to the dealer.

 

IMHO this would be the perfect time to engage Jaguar Corporate. Corporate is interested in keeping their dealers in line, and in keeping their customers happy.

Clearly this was a huge mistake made by the dealer.

If you wish to keep the car, you will need to have Jaguar Corporate USA notate in your National records that this warranty will be honored at ALL Jaguar Dealers.


Jag Corporate will also apply pressure to the dealer for you to make this right.

The person who reports directly to the VP on these matters is Pianca Vazquez, Senior Executive Liaison, JLR North America pherna35@jaguarlandrover.com

 

It is obvious that the dealer here is in hot water as they have, seriously, miss led you. While I'm sure you love the car this is not a marriage for better or worse, It's a car!. I would give it back to them get my money back and go to another dealer and have them search for the F-Type of your dreams. Leave the dealer and JLR to work it out as this is a franchise losing offence, IMHO.

 

Hi everyone, I read through this thread. I'm considering an XE, not an F-type, but pretty sure the same logic applies. This makes me want to go new rather than pre-owned of any kind, even certified. Is there a way to have a dealer check for this P167F code or any other ECU modification/tune before I buy the car?

Thanks