Bear with me, this is a bit of a rant thread. Flame me if you must, but I'm interested to hear other folk's viewpoints on this. I was struck with the dichotomy of 2 threads on here this morning

By most accounts (automotive press and general observations), JLR has "hit it out of the park" on the first try with this sports car. It's not perfect. No car really is, but it is a real winner for anyone that truly enjoys being engaged in the process of driving an automobile from point A to B, and also pretty damn good on a closed track. They've even tried to make it better by addressing some of the deficiencies - MT variant for the "true believer" enthusiasts, and AWD to give it a bit more command on a track, when pushed to the limits.

Yet despite this, they may have alienated a significant portion of this crowd (enthusiasts) by eliminating the RWD variant of the range-topping R version here in NA. Hence the thread here.

Now for the counter argument. In this thread, another f-type owner is decrying the lack of driver dis-engagement technology such as lane departure correction, etc. Maybe JLR NA has done their homework, and realize that this is the larger audience they need to address, even at the risk of alienating the enthusiasts. Maybe removing RWD in NA is the first step to making a car that the disengaged driver in NA can't get into too much trouble with. Some other points to support this. My local dealership in CT isn't even ordering cars for their own stock that aren't AWD. They recon that they can't sell the RWD variants here in New England. Every day I witness yet another reminder that autonomous vehicles can't come soon enough. I truly believe that the balance has tipped, and that the majority of drivers on the road are no longer truly engaged in the task at hand.

So what do you think? Are the enthusiast, engaged drivers in NA becoming the dinosaurs? Don't the automakers still have to satisfy them to get good reviews? Yet when they do, will they lose the silent majority that just want a car that basically drives itself except those occasional times when they will actually try to engage with it and push it?

 

Good post. Two thoughts:

It's a shame JLR has chosen to limit the options available to us in the U.S. They are still making the RWD R cars, so it should in principle be possible to offer both and let buyers decide. It's also a shame that there's no MT option on the V8 for those that want it. With that said, we pay less for our cars than in most other markets so some product rationalization is to be expected.

Secondly, on the thread discussing the lack of technology etc, a lot of the missing features that were highlighted are ones that could be added with software. There's an argument that some of the options add weight etc, and while I think that's a moot on a car that already weighs much more than it should it does matter. The software features, though, don't add weight. JLR does seem to have a lot of cool technology in development but the cars on the market today do suffer with second-rate tech. It's something they do need to improve.

 

I think you hit it out of the park, but I am one of those "engaged" drivers. I sometimes enjoy the technology in a family-hauler/utility vehicle, but I don't want any of it in a car like the F-Type, which serves an entirely different purpose.

As for the weight comment, yes even the base is too heavy, but at least it's several hundred pounds lighter than a loaded R, which is significant.

 

Many of these features can be turned off, or adjusted for closer tolerance/city driving. Sometimes I want to DRIVE, and other times I want to cruise and enjoy my companion and surroundings - so the tech comes in handy. Weight increase? Even automatic parking is virtually no-weight gain as it's a small step from electric steering and the sensors are there for parking/proximity warnings.

So Jag has a decision to make in optioning up to broaden the appeal, realizing that those who don't want the features can avoid those packages, or leave/turn them off if their Jag has those pesky features. YMMV.

On a related side note, my 2002 Jeep Liberty had an in-dash CD player as standard equipment, while my 2002 Jag S-Type had a cassette player in-dash. The salesman actually said that Jag is sticking with cassette players because many Jag customers had a large library of cassette tapes. Seriously!?!?! I kid you not!!!

Desert Hiker

 

Yes, much of it is software driven, but all those screens, sensors, wiring, actuators, and such add up. Just look at the weight difference between a base and a loaded R.

However, my point was that even a stripped F-Type weighs way too much for my tastes in that type of car, but I do realize that I am not at all representative of the average buyer and in the distinct minority. I'm the type who thought the Lotus Elise, with virtually no creature comforts, was one of the most brilliant cars I ever owned at slightly over 2K lbs.

I doubt a 2-seater will ever have a much broader appeal.

 

LOL I love lightweight cars like the Lotus but buy a porker like the F-Type. Go figure.

 

All rational decision making went out the window for me once I saw and heard the F-Type.

There are lighter, faster, and more proficient sports cars on the market, but none excited me as much as the F-Type. So much so, that I can easily overlook any shortcomings or complaints I have with the car, and any relative shortcomings against its peers.

Bottom line - This car puts a smile on my face every time I drive it, and I can't say that about many cars.

 

The infotainment features and such I can deal with. Jaguar is a smaller manufacturer and can't really compete with Benz and BMW when it comes to internal R&D. I think they should have just caved to Google/Apple and handed over the whole UI.

The compulsory AWD I cannot. I live in SoCal where it's dry almost year round at this point. It's especially silly considering that it's optional in the rest of the world. If I buy a an F-type at the end of my lease it'll be a 2014-15 at this rate.

 

And this is my point. You, as an engaged, enthusiast driver have been put off by their decision to not offer RWD in a 550HP car. As a result, you voice your opinion on this forum, and may voice it again come end-of-lease by not purchasing another F-type. However, I'm willing to bet for every person that shares your viewpoint, there's another (or 2 or 3) that will post on another online forum (maybe this one) that they can't believe Jaguar released such a powerful vehicle in RWD, because when they went around a corner on wet pavement and pressed the go pedal in the same binary manner that they do with their (insert ginormous, cushy, drives-itself SUV model here), it nearly sent them into the ditch. They just sold the vehicle and bought a Carrera 4S. Jaguar loses both ways.

 

They could just as easily win both ways by selling 550 hp AWD cars to those who want them, and 550 hp RWD cars to the rest of us, just like they do in the rest of the world.

I will be curious as to whether the AWD V8 car sells better the the RWD V8 car it replaced.

 

Just a guess: the bulk of the weight difference between the base model and the R is the V8, AWD drivetrain, tires/wheels, and the related racing kit. There may be some in pure electronics technology, but processors, memory, sensors, wiring, and those heavy lines of code are probably nominal in the grand scheme of the vehicle weight. But I could be wrong.

Desert Hiker

 

True enough. It is a bit curious why they won't sell both in NA. Perhaps the propensity of the NA buyer to purchase off the dealer lot rather than order custom, leading some that would be better off in an AWD vehicle to end up in a RWD. Also, for comparison, Porsche USA only offers it's most powerful models (the 911 Turbo and Turbo S) as AWD models. Porsche would also be a good place to determine the NA sales volume for RWD vs. AWD sports cars.

 

The V8 block is the same as the V6 block. They just don't use two of the cylinders on the V6. It's not a very elegant or lightweight solution. I find it hard to believe the actual engine accounts for much of the difference.

There is a lot of other heavy stuff on the V8 though. Like the active electronic differential. The vacuum pump and duplicated exhaust piping to allow a two way muffler. Some 56 different modules. Two batteries. A monstrous wiring harness. Seats that weigh in at God knows how much despite the absence of padding. And now AWD and all that is involved with that. At least the body is lightweight.

I have driven both models and IMHO the lower gearing and smaller tires on the V6 I drove had a bigger impact on making the V6 car feel livelier than the slight weight difference. The V8 is still much more fun and exciting than the V6, again IMHO, and both cars do a remarkable job of hiding their considerable excess weight.

 

Yes we are! If Elon Musk, a technology visionary, has his way, there will be zero driver engagement in the future. I hope I'm dead and gone by then.

 

I think JLR dealers in NA order cars that they think they can sell to punters who come in with the cash to buy them. RWD sounds like a sensible option. Too many bloody lawyers in NA if you ask me.

I think they removed the RWD V8R due to ameature drivers getting into trouble.

For an enthusiast willing to plunk down $80k-$120k, you can pretty much order what you want: this is a limited production vehicle, and Jaguar SVO is just a shed away from the main production at Castle Bromwich.

I bet a dealer in NA could custom order a RWD V8R spec'ed to NA (for lights, etc..). Might have to sign a wavier that "this is a high performance vehicle and I hold JLR harmless from my stupidity..."

After my bespoke F-Type V6S came in (after 133 long days) I asked my dealer to see if they could order me an XFR-Shooting Brake NA Spec. Dealer checked (Ray Catena) and asked if I would put a deposit down on it...I didn't pull the trigger on it but I'm going to miss my X-Type Sports Wagon when it goes and might try to order one then (if they are still making them).

 

Are you literally serious? Do I have a V8 block installed in my Base car, with 2 cylinder bores plugged off? I find that hard to believe?

 

Not a North American, but all I'll say is that I use the driving tech that is easily usable like the dynamic and sports mode. But Apert from day one when I played with everything, I have never gone back in and played with the car set up,features, the g meter, the lighting controls the split timers etc. I do use the nav when I need to and I agree the nav could be a bit better featured, but half the time I even turn the stereo off and just enjoy the sound of the car. I really don't care what fruit it has other than it is fun to drive and sounds great.

 

Yes, it is true that the external dimension of the blocks are the same, but the internal bores and such are different. It does simplify manufacturing, however, since the same block fits everything.

 

My understanding is that it is the same engine block blank, but the v6 has 6 cylinders bored in it and the V8 has 8 cylinders in it. It doesn't have 8 cylinder bores and only use 6.

 

Who are all these drivers? The only person I've seen have trouble with the RWD V8R is Richard Hammond when he put it into a wall. It isn't like it is a hairy Viper. The V8, while powerful is still pretty tame and it is hard to get the car out of whack in a dangerous way.