Tune & Pulley from ECU Tuning Group (Jag)!!!!! The car needs to cycle about 105 miles before the tune is recognized and accepted into the vehicles system!!!!! I have been very busy at work and have not had the time to fly down to Miami yet, but hoping that in the next few weeks I will be able to?

 

I'll cycle it through the 105+ miles for you. I'll drive it back to Canada, use it for the next 4 years and return it to you in good condition. lol

 

Well Gents, after the 105.4 miles of ecu learn, we did another dyno and this time I got what I paid for!!!!!! 538 hp and 482 tq to the wheels!!!!! So with a +/- 15% conversation rate, we get about 620 hp (engine)!!!! Not bad for $1,995.00 (Pulley & Tune)!!!!!!!

So, if anyone wants to do this and has been sitting on the fence, don't wait any longer, do it!!!!! It's worth every penny and you still have the snap, crackle and pop from the exhaust!!!!!! It is a fricken "freight train"!!!!!!

I will post dyno sheet once I get to the office!!!!!!!!

 

wow! Amazing!

 

Any info on what they can do to a base V6? If that would put the V6 into the low 400 HP range and boost the torque by 15 that would be a no brainer. Any info?

 

Wow... I'm still very new to my car, but even now I can see that it occasionally struggles to get all the power down from a standing start with the (relatively) cold temps we're having at the minute. Can't imagine what it would be like with another 100 or so horses under the hood. With this and the other thread today where someone linked a timing strip detailing an 11.98 second quarter mile, it's very, very that these are extremely fast cars...!

 

Awesome!!!!!!!!

 

Your gain is a bit more than you think. The correct calculation is (using a nominal 15% power transfer loss):


Horse Power gain: 538/.85 = 633, 633-495 = 138
Torque gain: 482/.85 = 567, 567-460 = 107


Your gains are substantial and it should be obvious that your car has more power. The 5l SC in the XKR, XKR-S, XKR S GT and the F-Type S V8 are all the same with different tunes. This tune takes them to another level. Let us know about the difference in your cars actual performance. Does it pull stronger at the bottom or top. Is it more responsive. Do you find it hard to put the power to the pavement. ETC.


Eurocharged also offers a tune which has been documented on this forum with similar gains but at a substantially lower price of $899.


Maybe some of the more performance knowledgeable people on this forum who have critiqued Eurocharge's tune and the application of it on other member's Jaguar's, like Matt's XKR-S, will chime in to review ETG's tune. This is the first ETG tune with a documented after dynochart. A before dynochart would have been nice to show the absolute gain.


It would be nice for some of the performance knowledgeable people on this forum to comment on the AFR, torque, and power curves compared to Eurocharge's numbers.

 

Jerry, congrats, and glad you're happy with the results!

Unfortunately this dyno graph doesn't really document anything. For that it would have needed to be accompanied by a before and after dyno as recommended on pg 1, measured on the same dynamometer (because dynos all measure differently and can be adjusted to read higher or lower), and power plotted against engine rpm and not vehicle speed, which misleads the reader and makes analysis impossible.

Jerry's priority obviously wasn't to substantiate power gains, but here's some suggestions for those that would like to. A properly documented before and after dyno would include doing both runs on the same dyno, in the same gear, and noting which gear had been used. Don't display results using "Standard" or "SAE" corrections which inflate the results of engines with forced induction, and display the results without "Smoothing" (which masks a rough tune and makes even an erratic power output look smooth). Measure air/fuel ratios on the dyno. If theirs isn't working, as is sometimes the case, don't run the car.

Independently owned and operated dynamometers should be used as opposed to a tuners own dyno to avoid the possibility of any "tinkering" between runs. This is easy to do by running your car on a local dyno, having the pulley and/or tune installed, drive the 100 miles for the ECU to adapt to the new setup, and return to that dyno to have it measured again. Choose days with similar temps and humidity so the "raw" power measurements won't be affected.

Use the same brand and grade of gas, note what was used with your results, and note what minimum grade of gas your tune was designed to run on. While the factory tune will run on any grade of gas, making more power with the recommended 91 octane, ETG tunes may require a minimum of 91, with 93/94 perhaps needed to provide the same engine protection as the factory tune provided.

This is the only way to measure actual power improvements provided by a tune, pulley or any other power mod. Forget trying to convert from any dyno results measured at the wheels to brake horsepower quoted by the factory. You really have no idea what the conversion factor is, and whether the published factory power is even accurate. Some understate and some overstate. A review I read last week suggested the F-Type was rather underrated from the factory, which makes complete sense to me for a number of reasons, and there can also be significant differences from one engine to another. The new 8 speed would have a different power loss and completely different gearing than the older 6 speed, again ruling out comparisons. Just add your dyno measured power increase to the factory power rating for bragging rights!

Just stick with the power facts, and they can only be found on carefully documented before and after dynographs. We know that you will never get the facts from these mail out tuners, nor any useful information about their tunes...and you know why. Jerry from Eurocharged wouldn't answer any questions or even attempt to support his tune or power results in the other thread. Jag at ETG hasn't really either in the past...and now at twice the cost I think he should

There's no doubt that these tunes create more power, but it's likely a lot less than what some are being mislead to believe. I recall one member who is an experienced drag racer who got a tune that made no improvement in his acceleration times. It's time to get real about these tunes...you should insist on it before handing your car over to a stranger.

Bruce

 

Thanks Bruce H. Very solid advise. I'm on the fence in having my car tuned. A lot of questions and no solid answers, as Bruce H highlights. To have your car messed with by someone changing manufacture set parameters without an explanation is asking for trouble, especially when they are not explaining exactly what they are changing and why. As Bruce H says, before and after dyno's on the same machine, under the similar conditions and with the most raw settings is the only way to measure any change. Why smooth to distort the curve. We want to see the flaws.


That being said, I still think the tunes offer gains. How much? We may never know until someone does this properly; and, why do the tuning shops not want to disclose their actual results to advertise their service? Why haven't the tuning shops provided answers to our more performance knowledgeable members? This makes me nervous about what exactly is being purchased and at what costs (not just initial service fees). When you pay for a service don't most people want to know what they are buying? To put your car in the hands of a tuner one puts a lot of trust in the tuner's service. So, where is the service, Eurocharged and ETG? Or, should we be asking what exactly is the service you provide?


I've been after answers for about 8 months on this forum and keep getting nothing from the tune shops. You can put your money on it, the tune shops know but aren't telling us. They keep asking for your money with no justifiable answers.

 

Guys, I talked to Jerry about why he hasn't responded on the forums, and he said he is more than happy to answer any and all questions via email or on the phone. He has all of the answers to the questions you guys are asking, and I would highly suggest those that really want to know the answers try to initiate contact with him. From my experience in meeting him, I think he is a very knowledgeable person and is willing to explain everything. These guys are tuning cars everyday, that's almost all they do. You have to think they might know more than say, Bruce, no offense intended (he's a great guy!). After all, it's their daily job and what they do everyday.

From what I understand, the reason he doesn't want to get involved in the forums is the inevitable arguments that frequently plague them. Its sort of the "damned if you do, damned if you don't situation". The odds of that happening on almost any forum are extremely high, as everyone is going to voice their opinion, even if its wrong. From that point on, its all downhill. Many of us have seen this happen. In fact, even at my current job, we do not post on forums. Its just too easy to get dragged through the mud. If you do a Google search, there are some posts in years back where this has happened to Eurocharged and ETG, so I can understand their reluctance.

I saw my before and after runs, and I was standing right there by the machine. There was no tinkering being done. Not only would this be completely unethical, it could ruin their credibility if it was found to be true. Do I really think Eurocharged would risk all that just to earn my $900 dollars? I seriously doubt it.

Ultimately, I must say my car is an animal...and the gains are very noticeable. The power gains feel correct. My dyno numbers look good. Everything so far checks out and this was not my first rodeo.

I think the pulley/tune combo is the best bang for the buck you can do for this engine. To me it made a massive difference.

Again, if you want to know all the answers, send them an email or pick up the phone and pick their brain a bit. Maybe you will get comfortable, maybe not. My car is running great and if anyone is in the Houston area would like to check it out, they are welcome to go for a spin.

Sorry for the thread jack!

 

Matt,

Thanks for the compliment...I think!

I've been on two high performance car forums for many years, and intimately involved in discussions involving power mods and tuning. The tuners there are respected, and are credited with the community's ability to modify engines for modest power increases with a tune that can be mailed out, and huge increases with a full custom tune. They've made countless threads to document the customer's power goals, the modifications they've planned to reach them, tuning strategy and safeguards, provided before and after dyno charts, and discussed what those graphs were showing.

They explain the details, educate their community, and answer questions. They do it on a public forum where other experts would obviously catch them if they were wrong, they don't hide from scrutiny, and they do not get attacked. That's because they know their stuff inside out, and are forth-coming with details to support their results. They are professional tuners...and even member's with limited understanding of power mods and tuning have confidence in their ability to provide a safe and effective tune because of their 100% transparent approach to promoting their services, and because they've been vetted by members more knowledgeable than themselves.

Most Jaguar owners would have limited knowledge of power mods and tuning issues, and would not be in a position to ask the right questions on their own, never-mind evaluate the answers. Tuning vendors know that. If they are unwilling to educate and support the market they are soliciting then they will not be successful here.

Feel free to copy and paste this into an email to them, or discuss it over the phone the next time you're chatting It makes sense, members want it, and I'd suggest their success on this board largely depends on it.

Bruce

 

I have to agree with Bruce. I don't think it's too much to ask for, "what exactly I'm I paying for?". The more open a service provider is the more comfortable it's customers are and the more business it generates from happy knowledgeable customers. Dyno charts and results that are produced to show better than actual gains do no one any good-they just raise a lot of questions and doubt. Tuners know better like any service provider. As a layman I'm looking for clear, accurate, detailed and logic behind a tune. What was done to the AFR? What parameters where changed? What safety nets are built in? ETC. Again, I don't think it's too much to ask. Any reasonable person would want to know what parameters were changed and how safe the tune is.


Especially, if a tuner claims specific gains they need to back them up!

 

Bruce it was a compliment, you are always cordial and obviously have a helpful personality. No doubt, you are a valuable forum member.

And, I hear everything you are saying. But ultimately it is their choice, and I don't work for them or get paid with any commissions or anything like that. I'm just a happy customer who is happy with the tune and the results. So I thought I would share my impressions and back it up with dyno's and AFR's, initial thoughts and continued reliability.

Sometimes I feel like this whole topic is being over-complicated, but I understand everyone has a different comfort level before they invest, so to speak.

Thanks for your input, I'm sure many people here really appreciate it.

 

DGL, I also hear you. Maybe they just think the Jag community is too small to really concentrate their efforts on? Honestly, I have no idea. I just know I was happy when I met them in person here in Houston and he was able to answer all of my questions. He also showed me the tuning software, gave me some background on himself and the company, and explained some background on the tuning industry itself. His staff was also very helpful and they did a great job. I can't find any flaws so far with the drive-ability of my car, it is very smooth and powerful. I love it, and there is no doubt the car is quicker. Several of my friends agree that have ridden in my car pre/post tune. To me, it is a night and day difference.

I think if you have any specific questions you should give them a call. Ask him what exactly you are getting for your money and I'm almost certain you will get your questions answered.

Again, I don't represent them in anyway, I'm just a happy customer.

Best of luck to all.

 

Thanks Matt,


Members who've had their cars tuned seem to be very happy with the service, which does speak. I'm sure the tunes do offer real gains. The after tune dynos are impressive. More information and more exact dyno charts would offer more convincing information. Is the data from a dyno stored so the data can be used to graph more realistic charts with rpms, not speed, and without smoothing to see if the TCU is interfering with the available power?


I like to thank all members for sharing their dyno charts and experience with their tune. Although we have not documented to date, any tunes done to show the most realistic gain from before and after dynos using the most sensitive and exact data, I believe we have made some progress.


It would be nice if the tune shops, Eurocharged and ETG, would take a member's car and offer to demonstrate their service, this would provide us with the information we desire. Use an independent dyno shop to produce the charts to establish confidence. This would, indeed, validate their service and produce increased sales on this forum. Do they have enough confidence (or should I say *****) in their service to do this?

 

Someone asked and no one answered... can you do this to a V6S?

 

If he is willing to accommodate everyone with their questions, concerns over the phone or by email, then i personally don't see a problem.

By the same token, if he is trying to promote and expand his business on the forums, like this one, then he should be expected to be less.....clandestine on the forums. It comes with territory.

We can always kindly ask Bruce H. to contact him whether it's by phone or email and get more answers to bring everyone on to the same page.

What are your thoughts Bruce?

 

No one has answered because I don't think anyone knows for sure. The V6 SC is a new engine.

 

I think it's obvious what some of our members need them to do to establish a comfort level to purchase the tune, and perhaps increasingly obvious that tuners feel their tunes won't stand up to scrutiny. Perhaps it's simply a business acumen issue. Either way it's not good.

At the end of the day we're expected to purchase the (temporary) use of a tune, which could and would be lost in a factory software update, and to trust that they will be there to provide the tune again if and when that happens. We're also expected to trust that the tune will be safe under all operating conditions, and not cause issues down the road...all while refusing to meaningfully document and discuss their tune. This is completely unacceptable to me, while others are obviously okay with it, so I'll refrain from commenting on this further and let those members just enjoy their improved performance.

Bruce