Soft top won't unlatch.
#61
06-04-2018, 09:28 AM
#62
06-06-2018, 01:40 AM
Senior Member
Update: I stopped by the dealership Friday afternoon and was told that they had just gotten the roof opened. They tried the one thing Jaguar told them not to try and it worked. My understanding is that it's an issue with a bolt or something that activates the latch release. They were able to open/close the roof when pressing whatever that bolt is intended for. So now they are ordering the replacement part and waiting to see how far away it has to travel to get it here to Texas. Should be getting my car back by the end of the week barring any setbacks.
Still waiting for my dealership to get back to me!
Sound like the bolt for manual raising of the roof. Do you have any more details or your dealer contact? (mine are still struggling)
J
#63
06-06-2018, 01:50 AM
Senior Member
Hi John,
due to the outer shape of the drive units the motors must
have a worm gear drive to the output side. It depends on the
design of those worm gear drives whether they are self-locking when driven
from the output side or not. Since the roof can be closed manually
I assume that they weren't self-locking therefore closing the roof
should basically be possible. To move the motors backwards (which is always
difficult with a worm gear drive with high gear ratio) I think its
extremly important where you try to push them back . As you can see in the
picture the motor drives the primary linkage by a gear drive rotating around
the main bearing (label #4) . The rest of the roof mechanism can be considered
a multi bar linkage driven by the primary linkage . For example if you try to move
back the top by pulling on part #13 a dead center positon of the "multibar linkage"
might prevent you to move the mechanism respectivly the motor, however if you try
to push on the primary linkage ( arrow drawn ) it might be possible to move it back
because you directly create torque around the main bearing.
The workshop manual gives a warning that opening the roof manually
might cause damage (note:if you push at the wrong position) to the mechanism
but it didn't say it isn't possible. Unfortunatly all information given in the
workshop manual isn't detailed enough to fully understand this complex mechanism,
that's why all this is just pure theory.
I don't have any practical experience working on this folding top so unfortunatly I
only can give you some thoughts but no proved procedures to get this problem solved.
Regards
Ulrich
due to the outer shape of the drive units the motors must
have a worm gear drive to the output side. It depends on the
design of those worm gear drives whether they are self-locking when driven
from the output side or not. Since the roof can be closed manually
I assume that they weren't self-locking therefore closing the roof
should basically be possible. To move the motors backwards (which is always
difficult with a worm gear drive with high gear ratio) I think its
extremly important where you try to push them back . As you can see in the
picture the motor drives the primary linkage by a gear drive rotating around
the main bearing (label #4) . The rest of the roof mechanism can be considered
a multi bar linkage driven by the primary linkage . For example if you try to move
back the top by pulling on part #13 a dead center positon of the "multibar linkage"
might prevent you to move the mechanism respectivly the motor, however if you try
to push on the primary linkage ( arrow drawn ) it might be possible to move it back
because you directly create torque around the main bearing.
The workshop manual gives a warning that opening the roof manually
might cause damage (note:if you push at the wrong position) to the mechanism
but it didn't say it isn't possible. Unfortunatly all information given in the
workshop manual isn't detailed enough to fully understand this complex mechanism,
that's why all this is just pure theory.
I don't have any practical experience working on this folding top so unfortunatly I
only can give you some thoughts but no proved procedures to get this problem solved.
Regards
Ulrich
Ulrich you were correct Jaguar are now saying even pressure to push the roof down.
Slightly frustrating as the roof now has to be partially rebuilt to try this. (not overly impressed to pay for work that did not need to be done)
Slightly frustrated that it has taken them 3 weeks to put in a Technical Assistance (TA) request and get what i said to them originally!
JAG advise if this does not work then follow the Essex / Brentwood method.....Hit the primer drive motor until it breaks!!
I'll be honest in week 4 i am now losing the will to live.
J
#64
06-06-2018, 07:16 AM
albeit it will not help much solving your problem I found some
interesting pictures (mods4cars.com) of the roof mechanism and the electrical connectors.
With the help of this pictures the TOPIX "cartoon strip" becomes
more comprehensible whomsoever it will help in future.
Regarding the dimension of the gears used in the mechanism I think
the "Essex / Brentwood method.....Hit the primer drive motor until it breaks!!"
will cause severe damage to the roof anchoring supports and for sure will
end up in a replacement top. It would be more gentle to cut it down with a
cut-off angle grinder ;-).
I still wonder about why the roof cannot be unscrewed as a whole from the
car in the closed position ? All screws seem to be accessible from inside
the car as stated in the workshop manual ?
Regards
Ulrich
interesting pictures (mods4cars.com) of the roof mechanism and the electrical connectors.
With the help of this pictures the TOPIX "cartoon strip" becomes
more comprehensible whomsoever it will help in future.
Regarding the dimension of the gears used in the mechanism I think
the "Essex / Brentwood method.....Hit the primer drive motor until it breaks!!"
will cause severe damage to the roof anchoring supports and for sure will
end up in a replacement top. It would be more gentle to cut it down with a
cut-off angle grinder ;-).
I still wonder about why the roof cannot be unscrewed as a whole from the
car in the closed position ? All screws seem to be accessible from inside
the car as stated in the workshop manual ?
Regards
Ulrich
Last edited by f-driver; 06-06-2018 at 07:43 AM.
#65
06-06-2018, 08:34 AM
Senior Member
albeit it will not help much solving your problem I found some
interesting pictures (mods4cars.com) of the roof mechanism and the electrical connectors.
With the help of this pictures the TOPIX "cartoon strip" becomes
more comprehensible whomsoever it will help in future.
Regarding the dimension of the gears used in the mechanism I think
the "Essex / Brentwood method.....Hit the primer drive motor until it breaks!!"
will cause severe damage to the roof anchoring supports and for sure will
end up in a replacement top. It would be more gentle to cut it down with a
cut-off angle grinder ;-).
I still wonder about why the roof cannot be unscrewed as a whole from the
car in the closed position ? All screws seem to be accessible from inside
the car as stated in the workshop manual ?
Regards
Ulrich
interesting pictures (mods4cars.com) of the roof mechanism and the electrical connectors.
With the help of this pictures the TOPIX "cartoon strip" becomes
more comprehensible whomsoever it will help in future.
Regarding the dimension of the gears used in the mechanism I think
the "Essex / Brentwood method.....Hit the primer drive motor until it breaks!!"
will cause severe damage to the roof anchoring supports and for sure will
end up in a replacement top. It would be more gentle to cut it down with a
cut-off angle grinder ;-).
I still wonder about why the roof cannot be unscrewed as a whole from the
car in the closed position ? All screws seem to be accessible from inside
the car as stated in the workshop manual ?
Regards
Ulrich
i think the issue is that the bolts are accessible when the roof is down just not when it’s up. (For removal)
although looking at the pictures it dose make me wonder why they can’t get to the connectors with the roof up.
j
#66
06-07-2018, 09:41 AM
Sorry for the delay......I called the dealership yesterday to get a status as I was told the car would be returned to me sometime mid to late week. They are now chasing an electrical short that has proven to be elusive. They are attempting to locate a like model (MY14 or 15) convertible and will go module by module to test the voltage and compare that car with mine.
As for the dealership info:
Barrett Jaguar - San Antonio, TX
Phone: +1 210 341-2800 (MAIN)
Service Representative: Steven (Reach by main # and ask for him in service department)
Ray Staylor - Service Director - +1 210-478-5830 (Direct line)
As for the dealership info:
Barrett Jaguar - San Antonio, TX
Phone: +1 210 341-2800 (MAIN)
Service Representative: Steven (Reach by main # and ask for him in service department)
Ray Staylor - Service Director - +1 210-478-5830 (Direct line)
#67
06-07-2018, 09:46 AM
#68
06-13-2018, 01:21 PM
Update: Yesterday was a month since I dropped off my car for this issue. They tested all the electrical connections and compared it to another convertible F-Type. No short was found but there was some lost resistance or something of that nature. They are replacing the latch assembly, the convertible assembly, and one of the motors. Two of the parts are in & they took about two weeks to arrive so I'm looking at least another two weeks before the possibility of this all being resolved. Meanwhile I'm roughing it in a XE.
#69
06-18-2018, 10:12 AM
Thursday afternoon I received a call from the dealership that my issue had been completely repaired and the car would be ready for pick up after it had been detailed Friday morning. It was reported the top was going up and down with no issues and they even had it down as they detailed the interior.
I arrived to pick up the car and signed off on the paperwork, get in the car and adjust seats and set up my radar detector. Just as I prepare to leave the dealership I go to put the top down. The windows drop an inch and the top does not unlatch. Same situation when I dropped it off a month ago. I walk into the service department and ask if I'm being punk'd.....the look of disbelief on their faces when they then attempted to put the top down was priceless. I on other hand, find it comical only because I'm trying not to lose my ****. I must have some sort of Midas touch that caused the top to malfunction again. This would only happen to me it seems.
Any luck on your end John Handy?
I arrived to pick up the car and signed off on the paperwork, get in the car and adjust seats and set up my radar detector. Just as I prepare to leave the dealership I go to put the top down. The windows drop an inch and the top does not unlatch. Same situation when I dropped it off a month ago. I walk into the service department and ask if I'm being punk'd.....the look of disbelief on their faces when they then attempted to put the top down was priceless. I on other hand, find it comical only because I'm trying not to lose my ****. I must have some sort of Midas touch that caused the top to malfunction again. This would only happen to me it seems.
Any luck on your end John Handy?
#70
06-18-2018, 12:57 PM
Veteran Member
Thursday afternoon I received a call from the dealership that my issue had been completely repaired and the car would be ready for pick up after it had been detailed Friday morning. It was reported the top was going up and down with no issues and they even had it down as they detailed the interior.
I arrived to pick up the car and signed off on the paperwork, get in the car and adjust seats and set up my radar detector. Just as I prepare to leave the dealership I go to put the top down. The windows drop an inch and the top does not unlatch. Same situation when I dropped it off a month ago. I walk into the service department and ask if I'm being punk'd.....the look of disbelief on their faces when they then attempted to put the top down was priceless. I on other hand, find it comical only because I'm trying not to lose my ****. I must have some sort of Midas touch that caused the top to malfunction again. This would only happen to me it seems.
Any luck on your end John Handy?
I arrived to pick up the car and signed off on the paperwork, get in the car and adjust seats and set up my radar detector. Just as I prepare to leave the dealership I go to put the top down. The windows drop an inch and the top does not unlatch. Same situation when I dropped it off a month ago. I walk into the service department and ask if I'm being punk'd.....the look of disbelief on their faces when they then attempted to put the top down was priceless. I on other hand, find it comical only because I'm trying not to lose my ****. I must have some sort of Midas touch that caused the top to malfunction again. This would only happen to me it seems.
Any luck on your end John Handy?
#72
06-18-2018, 01:42 PM
Veteran Member
#74
06-26-2018, 10:54 AM
Well, today marks 6 weeks the dealership has had my car. They've now replaced 4-5 modules and today I was told that Jaguar Tech has instructed them to rewire the car where the wiring powers any of the modules for the convertible top. They are currently waiting on the wiring and I am told it should be ready for pick up this Friday.
#75
08-03-2018, 03:21 AM
Senior Member
Yes i will be posting soon however it is not a pretty story.
The roof was completely replaced due to there being no method of getting it down in the manual and the design not considering it in the event of motor failure. (the roof was destroyed during removal / lowering)
I will do a full write up on a separate thread for members so that they are aware of the issues, consequences / risks and the reasons for the fault to occur.
Given the root cause i think we will see more of these in the future therefore if i can help others avoid the pain that i have endured i will be only too happy to share .
Regards
J
Last edited by John-Handy; 08-03-2018 at 03:23 AM.
#76
08-03-2018, 11:15 AM
I got my convertible back about 2-3 weeks ago after they had it for 8 weeks. They replaced 7 modules (of the 9 possible I think) and rewired the car. I have the write up for everything that was done so I'll find that and post on here later. They had to replace some of the parts multiple times because they kept failing even though they were replacing with new ones.
Since it only affects convertibles, I was told there wouldn't be a recall but a bulletin would eventually be sent out. The dealership had to cover a good portion of the cost of all the repairs as Jaguar denied the certified warranty claim.
I did get a set of new tires for all my headaches of being without my vehicle for two months.
Since it only affects convertibles, I was told there wouldn't be a recall but a bulletin would eventually be sent out. The dealership had to cover a good portion of the cost of all the repairs as Jaguar denied the certified warranty claim.
I did get a set of new tires for all my headaches of being without my vehicle for two months.
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