Jaguar Engines & transmissions Discuss performance / modifications / upgrades etc here..

Adding Nameless Cats, should I heat wrap them?

Thread Tools
 
Search this Thread
 
  #1  
Old 07-25-2013, 11:16 PM
WaterDragon's Avatar
Veteran Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Los Gatos, CA
Posts: 1,761
Received 279 Likes on 194 Posts
Default Adding Nameless Cats, should I heat wrap them?

Collecting opinions:

I'm going to be installing a set of nameless cats on my 2000 XJR.

Do you think I should heat wrap them? and if so, what is the best to wrap them with?
 
  #2  
Old 07-26-2013, 09:34 AM
SteveM's Avatar
Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: NY
Posts: 683
Received 96 Likes on 68 Posts
Default

There's information out there that heat wrap can do damage to the metal.

I would go for ceramic coating instead.
 
  #3  
Old 07-26-2013, 10:29 AM
WaterDragon's Avatar
Veteran Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Los Gatos, CA
Posts: 1,761
Received 279 Likes on 194 Posts
Default

Oh yeah, ceramic DUh!! That's the best. Good point! Somehow I forgot about ceramic.... I must have half-hiemers...
I think the wrap can trap moisture..
Ceramic coating it is
 

Last edited by WaterDragon; 08-14-2013 at 08:20 PM.
  #4  
Old 07-27-2013, 01:44 AM
XJR Prototype's Avatar
Senior Member
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: Grove City, Ohio
Posts: 366
Received 33 Likes on 33 Posts
Default

I wish someone made flanges for the DP's. I'd make my own... even tho i could probably use the stock ones... but would rather have a spare set.
 
  #5  
Old 08-06-2013, 10:17 AM
Rey's Avatar
Rey
Rey is offline
Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Salem, OR
Posts: 449
Received 144 Likes on 100 Posts
Default

All the exhaust insulation I have ever seen is upstream from the cats; and the cats have not been insulated. Insulating upstream tends to lower underhood temperatures a bit and helps light up the cats a bit sooner. Insulating the cats themselves is just not done, by anyone in my experience.
 
  #6  
Old 08-06-2013, 10:38 AM
Michael Star's Avatar
Veteran member
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Bowling Green, KY
Posts: 2,327
Received 251 Likes on 220 Posts
Default

I heat wrapped a set of headers I had a long time ago and it developed a crack. I am not saying the wrap is what caused it, but no one else had developed a crack similar to mine. Ceramic coating is the way to go. You won't have to worry about it falling off or holding moisture.
 
  #7  
Old 08-06-2013, 12:12 PM
WaterDragon's Avatar
Veteran Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Los Gatos, CA
Posts: 1,761
Received 279 Likes on 194 Posts
Default

I sent these off to get ceramic coated last week so they should return this week.

I will have to wait to install them until after I've re-installed my blower. I'm expecting it's arrival early next week.

I want to re-assemble the engine with blower, check to see if there are any problems, and if not, then add the cats, the Boost a pump, dyno and run the 1/4 mile, then add the +4 lb lower pulley and see what that does.

I'm afeeered that if I make too many changes at once and have a problem, it would be more complicated/difficult to locate and fix, so I'm taking it more one step at a time.
 

Last edited by WaterDragon; 08-08-2013 at 07:07 PM.
  #8  
Old 08-06-2013, 01:23 PM
Michael Star's Avatar
Veteran member
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Bowling Green, KY
Posts: 2,327
Received 251 Likes on 220 Posts
Default

Ya I had that issue when I threw a whole bunch of mods at it at once. I need to get off my lazy *** and get the maf to complete my intake.
 
  #9  
Old 08-06-2013, 02:00 PM
WaterDragon's Avatar
Veteran Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Los Gatos, CA
Posts: 1,761
Received 279 Likes on 194 Posts
Default

The cardinal rule is to try to change only one thing at a time.

All I will have changed is:

Ported TB
Ported elbow
Ported 5th gen blower, slippery rotor coatings that tolerate meth/fuel, etc, rebuilt blower with proper tolerances, none of this common .003" in front of the rotors garbage that can cause them to rub the case when the blower gets hot
upgraded to all aluminum tensioners
changed spark plugs to Denso U-groove one step colder
changed oil to Royal Purple 5w30 w/synerlec
upgraded the inter cooler pump and reversed the direction of flow
changed all hoses- while the super charger was out
put in new knock sensors-while the super charger was out
added 100 feet of wiring for my new:
Water injection
Inter cooler 12" pusher fan
inter cooler radiator water mist
Boost gauge
3 relays for the above

I'm waiting until after it all checks out to add the 92mm maf and larger intake tube, high flow cats, BAP, 4 lb lower pulley, tune, later LSD

So that is all, for now...
 

Last edited by WaterDragon; 08-06-2013 at 03:14 PM.
  #10  
Old 08-06-2013, 06:36 PM
Michael Star's Avatar
Veteran member
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Bowling Green, KY
Posts: 2,327
Received 251 Likes on 220 Posts
Default

Why change the direction of flow for the intercooler pump?
 
  #11  
Old 08-06-2013, 07:05 PM
WaterDragon's Avatar
Veteran Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Los Gatos, CA
Posts: 1,761
Received 279 Likes on 194 Posts
Default

Originally Posted by Michael Star
Why change the direction of flow for the intercooler pump?
Less chance of air bubbles getting into the pump:

The way it was running was the water spills down from the coolers then into the pump. If there is any air bubbles in the system, it can fry the pump.

By running it backwards the water is sucked from 1/2 way down the radiator after the air bubbles would have had the opportunity to travel to the top and out the overflow small tube.
 
The following 2 users liked this post by WaterDragon:
Michael Star (08-06-2013), ONEsicJAG (08-15-2013)
  #12  
Old 08-06-2013, 11:57 PM
WaterDragon's Avatar
Veteran Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Los Gatos, CA
Posts: 1,761
Received 279 Likes on 194 Posts
Default

Here is my post about the inter cooler plumbing change

From the factory, the water is pumped from the pump into the radiator, then up to the charge coolers, then back to the pump. It seems to me, that in this arrangement it is much more likely to get an air bubble stuck in the impeller and fry the pump.

If one were to reverse the flow as seen in the photos below, then the pump, in theory, should be already gravity fed pre primed with fluid and much less likely to get an air bubble stuck in it.

https://www.jaguarforums.com/forum/x...ckwards-98938/
 

Last edited by WaterDragon; 08-06-2013 at 11:59 PM.
  #13  
Old 08-07-2013, 10:48 AM
avos's Avatar
Veteran Member
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Europe
Posts: 3,615
Received 1,063 Likes on 759 Posts
Default

Just a thought, why not get the chiller killer to cool down the water/meth solution?
 
  #14  
Old 08-07-2013, 10:53 AM
WaterDragon's Avatar
Veteran Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Los Gatos, CA
Posts: 1,761
Received 279 Likes on 194 Posts
Default

Originally Posted by avos
Just a thought, why not get the chiller killer to cool down the water/meth solution?
The killer chiller is TOO effective at reducing IATs when paired with water injection.

One board member I talked to told me he ruined his rings and had to pull his motor because the Killer Chiller made the evaporated water in the air condense back into liquid as it passed the charge coolers.

Knowing that happened to him, I'm going to avoid that happening to me, and sharing this info in this post, any one else can avoid repeating that engine killing combo

He sold me his old water/meth injection kit, which is now the one I will be using.
 

Last edited by WaterDragon; 08-07-2013 at 10:55 AM.
  #15  
Old 08-07-2013, 11:27 AM
avos's Avatar
Veteran Member
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Europe
Posts: 3,615
Received 1,063 Likes on 759 Posts
Default

I am talking about chilling the water/meth solution, thats a very different idea/setup.
 
The following users liked this post:
WaterDragon (08-07-2013)
  #16  
Old 08-07-2013, 11:39 AM
WaterDragon's Avatar
Veteran Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Los Gatos, CA
Posts: 1,761
Received 279 Likes on 194 Posts
Default

Originally Posted by avos
I am talking about chilling the water/meth solution, thats a very different idea/setup.
Ohhhhhh, yes that is a VERY good idea! I had not thought of that.

Maybe a couple of thermo electric coolers attached to the reservoir bottle would do the trick. I'm thinking a killer chiller might freeze the water.
 
  #17  
Old 08-07-2013, 11:48 AM
avos's Avatar
Veteran Member
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Europe
Posts: 3,615
Received 1,063 Likes on 759 Posts
Default

Of course water alone would freeze, thats why I speak about water/meth.
 
  #18  
Old 08-07-2013, 11:54 AM
WaterDragon's Avatar
Veteran Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Los Gatos, CA
Posts: 1,761
Received 279 Likes on 194 Posts
Default

Originally Posted by avos
Of course water alone would freeze, thats why I speak about water/meth.
Any idea what the freezing temp is of approx 51% meth and 49% water?
 
  #19  
Old 08-07-2013, 12:17 PM
avos's Avatar
Veteran Member
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Europe
Posts: 3,615
Received 1,063 Likes on 759 Posts
Default

Originally Posted by WaterDragon
Any idea what the freezing temp is of approx 51% meth and 49% water?
Should be a google away.

As said it’s just a thought.

For controllability I would go for a chiller system that can be switched on/off based on desired temps (think the RX one can). This setup would be very effective in only cooling a relativly small volume of substance, which will last much longer than chilling the intercoolers continuously (ie 1/4 mile run), and ideally use a temp switch so the unit doesn't have to run when you have reached a desired temperature.
 
  #20  
Old 08-07-2013, 12:24 PM
WaterDragon's Avatar
Veteran Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Los Gatos, CA
Posts: 1,761
Received 279 Likes on 194 Posts
Default

Ok,

approx 50/50 mix of water/meth has a freezing point of -40C/F to -60C/F

per http://www.methanol.org/Technical-In...Solutions.aspx

This is a very good idea you have here...I especially like the idea of cooling the air before it gets to the 82mm TB, making the air cooler/more dense before the TB is a fabulous way of negating some of the limitation of the small diameter of the 82mm intake track.

Rather than spend the $899 on the chiller, I'm going to try (3) $10 65W thermo electric coolers with small heat sinks and fans and then insulate the reservoir. This way I can likely accomplish the same thing with much less complexity and for less than $100, which is more my speed
 

Last edited by WaterDragon; 08-07-2013 at 12:34 PM.


Quick Reply: Adding Nameless Cats, should I heat wrap them?



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 04:46 PM.