Yes, your above comments clearly have merit. I will try to qualify my statements more precisely with less "wiggle room" for interpretation.

As to my comments on track testing. To clarify, my thought is that if, under similar conditions, temp, humidity, barometric pressure, etc. that I, as the driver in question, determine that the launch (from a stop when the lights go green) is good/consistent with previous launches, etc, and the traction is consistent with previous runs, but I am now testing out a new modification (say new cold air 3.5" intake tube) and the car runs 3/10ths quicker consistently, then I think it would be fair to attribute that increase in speed (decrease in time) to that modification. The calculation would have to be done regarding horsepower correcting for factors like weight etc, but I think it is reasonable and acceptable to proceed on these assumptions.

Yes, I think the dyno is very useful in determining the difference from A to B, as long as A (the baseline) was not a fluke. I guess I will find this out after adding my first mod (the intake tube), then running it at the 1/4 mile track, then calculating what improvement, if any, there was in HP figures, then compare that to the new findings on the same dyno as I ran the baseline.

IF those two numbers which were calculated independently seem to jive, then they each independently are credible and reliable, if they do not match relatively closely, then further investigation is needed.

What I am talking about is the same driver (Me) testing progressive upgrades/modifications and testing them under similar conditions to try to get an honest and accurate publishable result.

My aim is to publish honest real world hp/tq gains associated with each modification I do to my own car and end the Circus that is happening now where everything is so "loosey goosey" that people researching which mods to do (like me) have no way of knowing who to trust. My aim is to provide the people on this forum an honest and trustworthy report of actual results as HP figures AND actual performance results. I will give dyno, 0-60, and 1/4 mile results.

This will be my contribution to the board.




p.s. as added/edited in my earlier posts, the dyno in question was a Mustang 750 dyno, please refer to that, now edited post for that info
p.ps. as always, thank you AVOS for responding to my questions. I appreciate and respect your inputs. I am learning lots from you.

 

I will say tht yes comparing times from a run on the 1/4 mile is not the best thing to do but if you measure the trap speed this is not affected by traction and such and is a better indicator of whether you have inncreased power. Being that Avos said 1/4 mile strips are very few and far between in europe im sure this is not the best place for him but id love to see a 1/4 run of his car. I watch top gear alot looks like they do alot of mile runs down abandoned airstrips you should do one of those that would be awesome to show some of the cocky M series bimmer guys your tail lights LOL.

 

Yes, agreed.

The 1/4 mile tracks are available here though, and I am certainly not dumb enough to challenge to try to beat his twin screw. My place for now, is near the bottom, though I plan on working my way up (with a little help from my friends

 

All that I still would like to see is the correction factor itself (so number), just to ensure there is nothing odd there.

Also I should have made it more clearer, is it "SAE J1349" normaly just reffered to as "SAE", or "SAE STD" normaly refered to as just STD.

Here is an example that shows the difference in the 2 different correction standards (calculations could be slightly off!, assumption here is 80F and 1012 baro):
if your uncorrected power output was 345 rwhp, the corrections would then be:
336 rwhp SAE J1349
352 rwhp STD

Once I have the right info I can give a better view on the figures.

 

Haven't done anything else myself over the last years, started of almost the same even in 2004, but you don't have to take my word for it.

But comming back to taking good measurements:
The next variable you need to control that determines the power output (being it on the dyno or track) is the intercooler circuit temperature.

This is an inherent problem with intercoolers, just having your car parked for 10 to 15 minutes after a drive will heaten up the intercooler circuit and also your temp sensor in the MAF itself. This all will reduce the engine output as the ECU will retard timing and enriching the mixture.

To get more consistant numbers I let the engine idle, so the engine fans run which will help cool down the intercooler radiator, and as you have some airflow over the MAF it will also cool down a bit. I usually wait for a run until the temp is between 10C to 15C above ambient max; this is about the same as when you drive (give or take).

 

Would be interested myself what a 1/4 mile would give, but there is none that I know of near. I only know some far away from me in the UK.

If I use my rwhp and 1920 kg of weight (includes car with full tank), 1/4 mile caluclators estimate about 11.7 sec.

 

Possible solution for this. The "Speedview" app for an android phone, which uses gps and the accelerometer in the phone is supposed to be very accurate. The app itself is free, or $2.95 USD if you upgrade to the version with no advertisements. Then all you would need is a flat open safe road.

And I know that you have posted your dynos, so my "not providing any proof of claims" does not apply to you

As to IATs, I am in the process of choosing which gauge to use (I currently do not have one) I am looking for a set to read boost and IATs.

As to controlling temps, I have a water/alcohol injection kit sitting on my floor staring me in the face, saying "install me, install me..." The Heaten blower's downfall is that it makes lots of heat, so I will see how well the injection kit works, and then see where I want to go from there.

If all goes well with my current business ventures, after I've gone through the rest of the motor, I do see a twin screw kit from you in the future, but not likely for almost a year. Hopefully others near me at that time would have successfully installed and ran their kits. I am happy to hear you say you have now worked out the bugs.

 

Avos, 5th August there is "Race at Airport" 1/4 mile open day in Bottrop-Kirchhellen (just north of Essen)

Race @ Airport -- 1/4 meile Cars & Bikes

Also have a look here for race days in Germany Termine 1/4 Meile - My-Car.info - Mein kleiner Auto Blog.

 

There are 1/4 mile calculators that correct for weather.

Calculate ET to another weather condition ET - Wallace Racing

DA Calculator - Density Altitude Calculator - DragTimes.com

Bunch of others:

Wallace Racing - Automotive Calculators

 

There ya go Avos and pretty close to ya isnt it?? Could be alot of fun to see what tht beast will do.

 

Is an option, but I would loose time during take off as public road ussually doesn't have very sticky tarmac you find on US 1/4 mile tracks.

That will certainly help to retain power longer, but it is more about consistancy between runs which will aid in trustworthy figures. So even if you would have the kit, its probably still good always check the base temps.

 

Is certainly an option, will keep it in mind, but I see it’s an airstrip, so this would mean I need to practice first on how to launch with minimal slip, or just accept that I will lose there some time.

 

I think we all can accept that your car is not set up for launching hard, (except you DO have a limited slip dif so it is the trap speed that will tell most of the story

So, are you going to do it

 

Maybe, can't plan that far in time, the weather also needs to be ok. I may focus on another one a bit closer the 1st/2nd of September. So just 2 slots in the coming months, ¼ mile isn’t alive here as in the US (or UK).

 

I love the 1/4 mile but I love watching those awesome mile long runs you crazy guys do out there in the UK I saw a guy tht put a newer bimmer motor I think from an M6 into an old body BMW and was killing everyone

 

HEY, just read thread!

check out the TEXAS MILE, a one mile drag race ,0 to top speed in a measured mile.

kinda like a 1 mile drag race, very exciting, and lotsa guys to talk FAST cars.

but rumor has it they may drop it down to a measured 1/2 mile, to many cars are going over 200mph in a standing mile, and litterely float airborn, and lose control.

and for reference, record for a wheel driven car is a FORD GT40, twin turbod, at 252mph in a mile.

now this is amazing, a Toyota Supra inline 6 cylinder, at 246mph.

and a bunch quick assorted Lambos.

also i know you guys may not like the facts ,but the fastest cars ALL run turbochargers, not engine driven superchargers! many supercharge cars there,but just fall short on mid and top end power!
a lot of conjecture there ,but facts are facts.

 

Well Skippy may want to look at your so called "Facts" the fastest cars would be a BELT DRIVEN ROOTS (shocker there) supercharged dragsters making in excess of 8000 horsepower heres a clip of the engine breakdown ( ) oh and just a fun fact they can get to round 330 MPH standing start in less than a 1/4 mile and do it in 4.5 secs
Woot woot love owning people LMAO an remember you heard it here folks 8000 horsepower, 1/4 in 4.5 secs at 330 mph in less than a 1/4 mile and all on a ROOTS blower stick that in your twinscrew and turbo and blow it bwhahahahaha

 

Are they allowed to run twin screws and turbos? If they were, they would crush the roots blowers. I heard that's the reason they're banned.

 

no they could run a turbo or a twin screw but the roots they use just makes more power than is currently avaliable from either of the 2 but keep on being a fanboy there lol.

But regardless point is these are the most powerful automotive motors on the planet and they run a roots blower sorry but facts are facts LMAO.

 

All and all Im just trying to throw in some humor in here so anyone butthurt sorry just having some fun but in all seriousness got to give it to them dragster guys and what can be accomplished with a roots if everything else is worked out haha ive yet to see a 8000 horsepower twin screw motor or a 8000 horsepower turbo motor but as i live and breath these 8000+ roots motors are all over the place, maybe they have a nitch somewhere