MKI / MKII S type 240 340 & Daimler 1955 - 1967

1967 3.8S Refurbishment

 
  #21  
Old 10-10-2018, 12:50 AM
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If you can't get he oil pressure gauge to work properly, you can fit a bourbon-tube type from a Mini.
The bezel from the Jaguar will fit.
Very accurate and reliable.

After it runs out of gas, check the glass sediment bowl and it should be empty.
Have someone turn the key on and watch how long it takes the bowl to fill with fuel _ listen for a steady click of the fuel pump(s).
If the pump(s) click fast, it's sucking air and not pushing fluid to the bowl.
In that case the main filter(s) inside the tank(s) maybe plugged.
If they click as if they are pumping fuel and then stop, but no fuel is getting to the bowl, then there is a blocked filter after the pump and before the sediment bowl.
This assumes that someone has put in a filter somewhere _ a blocked line may also be the problem, but not so much since you can drive it 5 miles.

Note too that there are internal filters inside the pumps as well.

Since you have serviced the carbs, I will assume the fine screen filter that mounts at the float bowl banjo fittings are clear.
Consider that the pumps may need rebuilding if you haven't already done so.
What happens is the diaphragms get hard with age and even thought the points may be in serviceable condition, the pumps can't move enough fuel to keep up with demand because the diaphragms are not moving their full travel.

If all of the above has been covered, assume that it may be an electrical problem, but unlikely since you can get 4/5 miles.
Easy enough to check though by supplying 12 volts to one of the pumps.
 
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  #22  
Old 10-10-2018, 05:29 AM
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I have a used, late style, 5SJ windshield water reservoir with its non-working pump and no mounting Bracket. Those pumps never lasted a month, just like the clocks. It will be posted in my Classic S type parts website: www.classicstypeparts.webstarts.com

what I did in my '65 S type was to install a modern washer pump hidden under the original washer container, connecting 2 of the 3 original wires to it, and the inlet-outlet water tubes to the original container and to the new pump. Works even better since the original 2SJ and 5SJ pumps are quite lazy even when new, only spraying a "squirt" of water. Modern pumps spray more water fast.

CLOCK: Mike Eck, electronics wizard, offers a clock modification which is reversible if you ever want a non-working clock again. He digitizes the original power section behind the clock and you can hear it ticking again, though I doubt anyone today ever heard a Smiths Jaguar clock ticking. Everything remains the same including the cable time adjustment knob.

contact Mike here:
www.jaguarclock.com
 

Last edited by Jose; 10-10-2018 at 05:40 AM.
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  #23  
Old 10-10-2018, 06:30 AM
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Thanks for the update. Seems you are progressing quickly. I'm not partial to SU fuel pumps. Even the pointless ones. If you get to the stage of requiring new pumps I heartily recommend the substitution of (Porsche) Hardi pumps (carried by Barratt's) ~ Made in Germany. They are correct pressure, not polarity sensitive & hugely reliable. They fit in the same mounts & use all the same banjo fittings etc. as an SU. They make the right noise & can't be seen anyway. Then you can relax.

I'm always amused at them being called an "aftermarket reproduction". They were OE to pre fuel injected Porsche's and many are still running. Price is good too.






 

Last edited by Glyn M Ruck; 10-10-2018 at 07:10 AM.
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Old 10-10-2018, 06:42 AM
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Glyn,
can you provide a Part Number(s) for the Porsche fuel pumps?
Thanks.
 
  #25  
Old 10-10-2018, 06:54 AM
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See above Jose ~ I was editing when you posted.
 
  #26  
Old 10-10-2018, 07:30 AM
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IIRC The Hardy Number was/is a 9912.
 
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Old 10-10-2018, 07:30 AM
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Thanks Glyn.

so you think these pumps are more reliable than the SU ?
 
  #28  
Old 10-10-2018, 07:37 AM
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Originally Posted by Jose View Post
Thanks Glyn.

so you think these pumps are more reliable than the SU ?
Far more reliable than SU and they don't mind alcohols in the fuel etc. either. I'm an oil company man and while my speciality is lubricants (Tribologist), I know all too well common failure components used in the industry. I used to look after global OEM's for our company at one time.
 

Last edited by Glyn M Ruck; 10-10-2018 at 07:43 AM.
  #29  
Old 10-10-2018, 07:52 AM
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I will substitute my 2 SU pumps with those. Fact is I was already looking for a substitute that was more up to date.
Maybe you should start a thread at the S type Register about these Porsche pumps.
 
  #30  
Old 10-10-2018, 08:23 AM
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Will do. What do you use for the milky white fuel tubing that is correct for Jaguar? I bought some from the US that was supposed to be the "right stuff". In Johannesburg where my car was restored we have up to 12% heavy alcohols in our fuel from Sasol. This piping lasted about 2 weeks exposed to alcohol & cracked & leaked.




 

Last edited by Glyn M Ruck; 10-11-2018 at 02:59 AM.
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Old 10-10-2018, 09:14 AM
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in my car it looks to be original, haven't had to replace those tubes.

but they sure look like aquarium pump tubing or plumbing tubing sold by the foot in places like Lowes or Home Depot in the US.

Also I have seen similar clear fuel line tubing in portable diesel power plants used in construction sites.
 
  #32  
Old 10-10-2018, 10:29 AM
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The aquarium clear tubing sold at US Home Improvement stores is PVC & not suitable for fuel. I can get tonnes of that here. I lived in Dallas & the Bay Area for a long while.
 
  #33  
Old 10-10-2018, 01:13 PM
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https://www.thehosemaster.co.uk/clea...oil-fuel-hose/

They state this is all fuel hose self extinguishing, but also say PVC !

I went with braided lines, not original, but I thought better ?
 
  #34  
Old 10-10-2018, 04:44 PM
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That PVC hose is not really made for petroleum products. The Jag stuff is quite thick & inflexible & designed for push on fit & no clamping. It's an originality thing with me. I have genuine NOS in the engine compartment where it's visible. In the boot I had to chuck all the right stuff out & I have clamped, armored black SA fuel hose now. Barratt's no longer have the original stuff & XK's Unlimited show no stock.
 
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  #35  
Old 10-10-2018, 09:50 PM
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Nice to have a reliable alternative to the original SU pumps, but in all honesty, I've never found the originals to be unreliable.
My dad had a 63 P5 Rover as the family car, it was literally driven into the ground.
The pump was never touched, same with an old Mini we had.

I just rebuilt the SU's in my 340, probably the first time since 1968.
If the Hardy pumps circuit boards were actually made in Germany and not China...

To each their own.
 
  #36  
Old 10-10-2018, 11:39 PM
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I can barely keep up with you folks on "my" thread! Thank you, very valuable information.

And the winner is, indeed, "fuel pumps!" Points to, well, everyone. Tanks are fine inside (they've been redone in the past), main tank filters are clean. The pumps, while making lovely correct clicking sounds, and fooling me with their apparent fueling, are mostly blowing bubbles. Good for bathtub, bad for Jaguar.

Some time in the early naughts (2000's), under previous owner, the fuel system was gone through (poor grammar). Mostly successful; I like most of what I see. However, the pumps were replaced with the Moprod plastic-bodied units. Not sure if they're the original New Zealand ones (now updated under the ECCO name), or the 1.1 generation re-done by Moprod. But, they aren't THAT old, and I fished a nice piece of thin clear plastic out of the first one I opened that I wonder if it was part of a one way valve? Anyway, with clean tanks and clean pipes and clean fuel, the pumps aren't "lifting" enough, and really only suggestively spitting gas forward towards the engine in a pitiful attempt to satisfy the rather heady call of the 3.8 litre beast.

I've stuck with original SU's previously, and have had good results rebuilding them and replacing parts. Most recently, that double-barreled monster in the V12 E-type. (Oh, and, storytime, I have to chuckle a little at the reference to the well-made Porsche HARDI pumps - as I will never forget the time a points failure on that pump in my '68 911S <German market, and yes, way before they were worth the bazillions they're worth now> left my girlfriend and I stranded in the Canadian Fraser Valley, resulting in a weird ride in the back of a box van with a friendly but questionable guy, and the car being broken into and all sorts of tools and stuff taken out of it while it was stranded, farm-side. OK, not really the pump's fault, just pitting on the points, but still.) Anyway, where was I... ah, yes, so, replace with more ECCO pumps, go back to rebuilt SU's, or HARDI? Hmmmm, $$ aren't really all that different, thought I have to say I don't really feel like buying two new fuel pumps. Oh well, no choice I suppose. I lean toward the SU's, not so much for originality -- don't care that much for this car -- but just because I know they're adequate and will likely outlast my use of the car.

And I'd love to hear a definitive answer on a source of that original-style, strong clear fuel line, too.


 
  #37  
Old 10-11-2018, 12:13 AM
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People must do as they wish with pumps. At least there are options. Huco also make a compatible pump. SU's are the least reliable of the bunch IME. A rebuild kit for an SU is GBP 42.

The original fuel hose is supposed to be NYLON i.e. a polyamide.
 

Last edited by Glyn M Ruck; 10-11-2018 at 12:34 AM.
  #38  
Old 10-11-2018, 12:55 AM
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This is what makes the old SU pumps a bit more reliable, assuming that the device has had quality checks down the line of assembly.
New diaphragms are made with modern materials to withstand ethanol as well.

The transil makes the pump non-polarity sensitive.
A diode can be used as well, but the article mentions its problems with that _ one has to be very mindful to get the polarity right there.

Extend the life of your SU fuel pump ? Fit a transil! | Totally T-Type 2
 

Last edited by JeffR1; 10-11-2018 at 12:57 AM.
  #39  
Old 10-11-2018, 12:55 AM
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[QUOTE=Glyn M Ruck;1973911]People must do as they wish with pumps. At least there are options. Huco also make a compatible pump. SU's are the least reliable of the bunch IME. QUOTE]

Well, in my experience the electronic SU pumps (which look identical to the original points pumps, and fit identically), are perfectly reliable. That is what I have had on my 1966 Mk 2 for the last 10,000 miles - no issues at all. And yes, they make the proper ticking noise.
 
  #40  
Old 10-11-2018, 01:00 AM
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This thread is turning into the points versus electronic ignition debate !
 

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