Hi all -- newbie here.

I own a 2003 STR with 67k miles on it -- and I love it. It's my favorite car I've ever owned, by far.

But...

I was driving along one day and the engine started to tap. No oil light, no code. I was withine a mile of my local repair shop, so I took it in.

They discovered it was low on oil (not even on the stick), and did an oil change. The tapping stopped. Yay!! It ran great for a week - no noise.

Then I drove it on a 50-mile trip. Still no problems, until I went to restart it 4 hours later.

Tapping, louder -- maybe knocking. I shut it off and called for a tow.

The local shop took a look, but were a but intimidated by the car. They spent a couple of days looking for someone who knew more about Jags for me. (These are really good guys -- very trustworthy)... They found a guy close to me, so I had the car towed there.

The owner listened to the car and said that he was pretty sure it was the timing chain. Said he's replaced a few of them on these. He said that he would run a compression test, and if that checked out, he pull it apart to replace the chain and gears.

Okay, at this point I'm feeling pretty good. I'm an old hot rod / muscle car guy, and I've built motors -- so far this is sounding okay to me. I understood it wouldn't be cheap, but my dirty-hands days are far behind me, and at least he didn't think it was any more serious than that.

That was a week ago.

Today they called - they told me they had "listened" to it, and it needs a motor. "Probably spun a bearing", the guy says. My options are a junkyard motor with 65k on it for 8500 installed, or a new one from Jag for 10.5k installed. The junkyard one would cost 5500 and comes complete with the supercharger. The one from Jag is an assembled short block, from what he tells me.

Okay,some of this just doesn't ring true with me. "probably spun a bearing"? They haven't pulled the pan to look. They say it's very labor-intensive. Um, okay. Is this how things are now? Is it normal to tell a customer that he has to drop 8-11k on a new motor for his 65k-mile car without even verifying the theoretical internal damage? (Lots of inferences about Jaguars unreliability tossed around, by the way) I haven't asked yet about whether they did a compression check, but they didn't mention one. Wouldn't there be a code if something that serious happened? Compression, fuel/air ratios? Or am I wrong here? Advice?? Please? I really want to love my Jag again!

 

The Jag factory rebuilt will be a stripped long block, to the best of my knowledge.

You can't get to the rod bearings for inspection with the engine in the car. And yes, it is not out of the question that you spun one.

I helped a local shop get a 4.0 normally aspirated S Type back together on the cheap: I sold them a good used XJ8 crank (identical), calculated and acquired all of the correct bearing shells, one good used connecting rod, head gasket set, done.

Alternative is a good used engine. I don't work on S Types, and so I'm not sure if yours is a 4.0 or 4.2. I think it's a 4.0, and I have more good used cranks if you are interested.

There is one sitting in the corner of a local machine shop, rod journals cut .010" and all polished up pretty. It's worthless, you can't buy oversize bearing to put it in an engine with. That's what it has come to.

 

Wow, that really bums me out, but thanks very much for the reply. So basically a new short block is going to cost almost as much as a complete, loaded 2003 STR. And there's no way to even be sure that's what's wrong. I am so sad. I just don't have that kind of money. And on top of owning a very stylish paperweight, I get to listen to all my my gearhead friends' I-told-you-so's while they give me rides in their American cars. Is there any other alternative at all here?

<edit> I'm pretty sure it's a 4.2 if that matters at all.

 

Sorry mate, just hoping to help you make informed choices. To the best of my knowledge, Jaguar sells rebuilt engines which are bare long blocks: that means they have refurbished heads installed, but no manifolds or other accessories.

I just did a bit of homework, you are correct that your engine is a 4.2 Litre. I believe that means a 4.0 crank will not fit. There is a 2003 S Type R engine in Ohio, 57K miles, for $5,000. Usually salvage yards will remove the supercharger, alternator, starter, A/C compressor, power steering pump before selling an engine.

 

Greg's advice is sound, particularly since we are talking about an S Type...but I have my prejudices.

The $5K price for a used engine seems about right, there are two in the southwest and one in Texas for a little more. I emailed an associate at a deaaler who had an '03 S Type R engine about two years ago, if he answers me back you might be in luck.

The figure you were quoted for labor is high, and the more complete the engine is purchased, the less the swap should cost you. Not $3K.

 

That's what figured too ... I'm going to talk to my local shop tomorrow and ask how much they'll charge me for a swap & drop. I'm hoping for maybe half that figure if the new motor is complete...

Please let me know if your associate still has that - I'd be truly grateful for any help. In the meantime, this is the same engine, right? And maybe I could re-sell the trans, heads, blower, etc to recoup some of my money? Or I could get this...

I wouldn't mind hearing about your "predjudices" re: S-Types either, if you feel like sharing...

 

That's horrible man.. I feel really bad for you.

You do have one other option though. Go out and purchase an aftermarket warranty from a good company. (check them out with the better business bureau first) It should be around $2k-4k.. They have a 30 day/1000 mile waiting period before you can file a claim, so if your car has 67k tell them it has 65k miles. The warranties cover almost all moving parts in the engine and on the car, the only exempt parts are belts and hoses.

After you wait at least 30 days. Probably 45 to be safe, you call up the company and say "Hey, my car is knocking..." they'll send you into a shop. The shop will diagnose the problem. If it does indeed need a new motor, they're the ones that will be putting up the money.

The only down side is that you'll have to hear sh*t from your friends for a couple months while they drive you around in their fords and chevys. I would either do that or jettison the car into a canal, or wrap it around a tree. Whatever you do, don't spend $10k on a car that's only worth 13..

Good luck,
Eric

 

White, you think that will work? That's too much of a gamble for me, I don't have the grapes for it.

Frankie, like I said, I'm no S Type expert. I presume that the 4.2 S Type R uses the lower compression pistons as opposed to the naturally aspirated 4.2, so the ebay ad you pasted is a long block that will not be suitable for your car. It is not a supercharged engine.

Yes you can sell the leftovers, no it's not easy and lucrative. On that subject, I know of what I speak.

 

Yeah, I'm sure you're right -- forgot blowers need lower compression... How 'bout the other (XJR) motor -- is it the same as the STR?

 

Frankie,

Yeah sorry, I missed that one. Again, this is a little far afield of my expertise: the S Type probably uses a different oil pan and structural sump than the XJ, so you're looking at swapping over more components. The block, crank, pistons and heads from a 4.2 XJR engine should be the same as yours, though. Where do you live?

 

The warranty idea is pretty brilliant, but as JagTech says, I'm not sure I have the grapes for it. OTOH, it pales in comparison to some of the schemes running through my head.

And even if I had a spare 10k, I wouldn't spend it on this car, as much as I love it. 5k, maybe. What is the reputation of the STRs? Is it worth keeping if I luck into a decent deal and get it running right again?

 

Washington, D.C.

 

When contemplating such large amounts of money.... is it possible to get a second opinion? Preferably from a jag tech with actual experience (bearing in mind STRs are rare so many won't have that experience).

 

I agree with the other folks here who have advised that you should initially spend some money up front to obtain the best diagnosis possible before you decide what action you'll take with the car. That probably means a trip to the dealership and since you live in D.C., you probably have multiple dealerships to choose from. We have some forum members who also live in D.C. or the surrounding area in Northern Virginia so hopefully they'll spot this thread soon and assist in your decision.

Personally, I would have great difficulty convincing myself to spend the kind of money you're quoting to do an engine swap in this vehicle. I'm driven by financials and deteriorating asset values, not emotion, and regardless of how much I loved a car there is just no way I could justify spending between half and two-thirds of its current value to effect major repairs.

I really hope that your issue turns out to be less severe than you currently fear. I'd spring for some more accurate diagnostics before making a decision on how to proceed.

Good luck and please keep us posted here. As you already know, there are some good folks here who can help you out in various ways from trustworthy advice to better parts sourcing....

 

Since I am in Northern VA, I can offer the following:

Jaguar Dealers

Rosenthal Jaguar

Chantilly Jaguar

Manhattan Jaguar


Independent repair shops


Intersport
1524 Spring Hill Rd Unit H
McLean VA
703-242-8680

I used them before and fairly reasonable. They also have a shuttle if you are within a few miles of them.

Foreign Car Service
501 Bashford Lane
Alexandria, VA
703-549-4100

Haven't used them

Eurasian Service Center
8501-B Tyco Rd
McLean VA
703-893-3045

They do work on Jags, but I think Intersport is better.

There is a place specializing in Jaguars on Route 29 about a mile or so east of Gallows Road in Falls Church, but I don't remember the name off-hand. If you are in the area, you can stop and check it out.

Good luck,

Mike

 

Frankie, I am extremely sorry to hear about this situation, I know it must be more than frustrating for you. Hopefully, between the guys on the forum and yourself we can get your STR up and running again with the least amount of money coming out of your pocket.

#1 I 100% agree that you NEED to take this to a Jaguar Dealer for a full, proper diagnosis.
#2 You should get an after market warranty (immediately) regardless if this ends up being the engine, or something less extensive. This way you will cover your as* if it ends up being the engine, and if not you will be able to sleep at night whenever anything else happens to your STR. Only downside to this is obviously the waiting period, it is what it is. Good luck man, keep us posted.

 

They only other advice I can give you Frankie is that you need to be really careful when taking it in. All Jaguar dealers are interconnected. When they record your mileage and the problem with your car it will be in the system. After you buy your warranty and take it in, the condition, date, and mileage will be on record. Then your warranty company would have grounds to deny your claim as a previous condition.

The warranty plan is a sound one IMO. I'm having my entire ZF replaced under warranty. It take a little bit of time, dealing with adjusters, inspectors, and claims people, but in the end, they will pay. Again just be careful where you take it to have it looked at, if you go the warranty route, it may come back to bite you in the as*. An independent shop would be preferable, because it would be easier for the warranty company to check your service records with a dealer. Also make sure the independent doesn't report to carfax, that is something that warranty companies often check.

Your also going to want to fudge your mileage when purchasing the warranty so it looks like your driven the car a few thousand miles since buying the warranty. If you PM me with your phone number I'll call you and explain from my first hand experience, since this isn't exactly on the up and up.

Whatever you decide. Good luck.

 

No other sources for en engine on this end, the one in Ohio I mentioned was the best deal I can find.

Rod knocks are not that difficult to identify, the only distraction on these engines is that the sound resonates in the hollow cavity in the engine valley. If you ever had an intake manifold off and removed the big triangular rubber plug, you'll know what I am talking about.

 

At the risk of getting flamed I gotta say this. If ya want to defraud an insurance company could ya do it in private and not on a Jaguar specific forum. I can't begin to tell ya the levels of dumb doing this publicly in an open and hostile manner to insurance companies really is.

You would be amazed at just who lurks on forums. Let me get one thing straight "I'm no friggin' angel" and I've learned a few lessons the hard way. I learned the lesson of "be careful what ya say on a forum" and got to hear/read the transcripts in a Federal Court in Seattle. The settlement check stung...

Like the guy who came on here recently looking for a bootleg navigation DVD and folks decided to publicly help him. Dumb beyond belief...

If for no other reason consider your own Enlightened Self-Interest. This advice is worth exactly what ya paid for it.