This has now got me to the point of a lack of understanding and frustration.

I have a standard 3.0 S-Type/ standard brakes. I have never had any problem with them until I made a resent change in pads and rotors. I had once before replaced the pads and rotors and had no problem at that point. In this case they were just wearing down and I had a minor squeak on the rears and stay ahead of the curve instead of waiting until things go bad.

I went to Brake performance- per recommendation of the forum and got the prem. semi-metallic pads and the Premium Dimpled and Slotted Brake Rotors.

I changed them as before. Also changed the boots on the caliper pins.

Since then I have had a mushy brake pedal and they will stop, but I have to use much more force than before and once stopped- if I pump on them slightly instead of getting harder it appears to go the other direction.

I also seem to have a noise on the right front when I put my foot on and off.

ABS engages and works fine. Brake fluid seems fine, although I am going to have it changed, but do not think it is in such a poor condition that it is causing this problem- especially when I did not have the problem 2 hours before I changed the brakes.

I only drive about 800 miles a month. Do not sit on the brakes or come to sudden stops from high speeds. I am an easy braking person, vs. doing hard and sudden stops. I have started breaking several times at 60mph and took my hands off the wheel and had zero pull, no vibration and when it does stop it does stop with authority.

I had taken all of them off I re-lubed the pins with a very high quality lube for calipers. The brakes pads at that time were wearing evenly (this was only about 1000 miles after they were put on). The calipers are not seized. The caliper mark on all 4 sets of pads show even application. The EPB works as expected in stopping the car.

Several questions.

1. Is this mushy pad due to less material on the rotors I got vs. the standard ones that have no slots ect.??
2. How would one know if the brake booster is operating correctly? Would it generate an error code?

3. Same question as above except for the Master Cylinder?
4. Would not appear to have a seized caliper of any sort, unless i simply have lost my mind and don't know what one is.

Any suggestion and why the noise when on the right front when I brake a little harder and then when I release the pedal. Could it be a malfunctioning caliper and would that, by itself cause for a mushy overall performance if just one had a problem, although it had no problem prior to change?

I properly bedded/seeded the brakes as described in many locations, no squeaks, no dust and the marks on the rotors show even marking from the pads. In the hardware kit there were some retaining clips included, but there were none on the originals and never used them before. The were some spring clips on the top and bottom of the front pads that I used as before and of course the built in spring type clip that was built into all the pads. There is no abnormal pad movement and no rattling.

So what am I missing???

Thanks

Tom in Dallas
2005 S-Type 3.0 65K

 

The wrong combination of pad material and rotor surface will give the results you've mentioned. Don't know who suggested that slotted/drilled rotors would be a good idea or an upgrade, but they're not.

 

I am not sure if anyone suggested it directly- I just got the brake performance suggestion and generally go to the best, not the less. So your quick view is that if I went to the non drilled/ dimpled rotors, i would not have the problem or just simply learn to live with what i describe? Is there a different pad material (ceramic) that would work or should Just go to the standard rotor??

Thanks

Tom

 

First, I don't know why you have the mushy pedal. Hope others can say. If "soft" is an equivalent meaning maybe Search will help.

You can't get many (any?) codes for the braking system where it's fluid-/seal-related as there aren't sensors to detect it.

 

I concur staying with normal rotors. I also question whether your brakes are now suffering from air in the system. Did you bleed them during the pad and rotor change? Did you open up the bleed valves to relieve pressure on squeezing the pistons back into the calipers?

 

I really think at this point that if I had any air in the system if would had dissipated to the top and that would not explain the noises. I did not use the bleed valve, but when I changed before, I did not and did not run into this problem. I actually followed the directions for the brake change originally as outlined in various spots on the forum, which is why i got the rotor kit from Harbor The only difference between this brake change and the previous is the rotors.

I will probably get a fluid change in the near future as my business associate owns a Kwik Kar and has the proper machinery.

The general consensus I am getting is that the smooth type rotors is what is need for this car.

I am curious if anyone with the standard non-Bembo brakes has used the dimpled/slotted rotors with success??? I would still like to know why the difference in the rotors would cause this (in some sort of engineering viewpoint) or are the brakes that sensitive that the slightly less surface on the rotors makes that much difference.

Thanks

Tom in Dallas
2005 S-type 3.0 65k

 

I don't have any S-Type specific experience and I'm not saying there *isn't* a correctable fault, but......

Over the years I've discovered that different friction materials can significantly change pedal feel. For example, when I went to Akebono pads I was at first a bit distressed at the softer/mushier feel....although the actual braking grip was very good. I was expecting a softer feel from a supposedly high-performance pad. I was convinced I had a hydraulic issue but (long story short) I discovered that the softer feel was just the nature of the Akebono beast.

Another example. Many years ago I bought an XJ6 that had the hardest brake pedal I've ever felt. Geez, it was like pushing a concrete wall. I don't know what pads were on it but I switched to something else....can't remember what, specifically.....and was rewarded with a "normal", easy to modulate pedal feel.

So, before tearing out any more hair you might wanna do some research on the specific brand and model of pads that you have because, yes, it *might* be something that you just have to live with.

I'll also add (and don't take offense!) that there's a mental aspect to a "soft brake pedal". It is very common to become hyper-sensitive to brake pedal feel and height after brake repairs. I can cite numerous examples

Cheers
DD

 

I doubt that the rotors will give any benefit, I also doubt that they are causing your problem, I wouldn't go to the expense of throwing away new rotors.
The fluid change and bleeding sounds like a good idea with an investigation of the noise at the same time.

 

This what I was saying above. Had the same experience with an Infiniti. The aftermarket pads on the Jaaaag when I got it were horrid also. I switched to OEM which were OK in feel but produced a huge amount of dust and really didn't last that long. I've got Raybestos pads now (based on the recommendation of a Jaaaag taxi fleet owner where I used to live) and they're great.

 

I've been running Wagner ThermoQuiet pads on all of our vehicles since I was told of their bang-for-the-buck superiority a few years ago by a friend in the brake business. They have been superb on our S-Type, my Ram pickup, and my wife's former Lexus SUV. Always tomb-silent, quick-stopping, and far less brake dust than any OEM pad. Depending upon the vehicle, I've had sets last for more than 90,000 miles (lots of highway driving helps). No set has lasted less than 60,000 miles....

Having checked the condition of the brake pads on her XK8 last weekend when I did the 60,000-mile service, I concluded that all four wheels have perhaps 5,000 to 8,000 miles left on their existing pads (none of which I purchased or installed). So I ordered front sets and rear sets of the appropriate ThermoQuiet pads from rockauto.com this past Tuesday. The total cost including shipping was $72. Wagner is currently offering a $50 rebate (on a debit card) when you purchase a full set of ThermoQuiet pads (both axles) through April 30th. I filled out the paperwork and mailed it in to claim my rebate. So when my $50 debit card arrives in six to eight weeks, my final cost for all-new XK8 brake pads will be $22. I can certainly live with that....

 

It's funny you mention Akebono's cause a softer brake pedal feel. On my car when I changed them I also flushed the bake fluid. I always do this when I change cars. Since then I have re-bled my brakes several times using different methods trying to improve pedal feel.

The car stops fine and I can control the level of braking fine but it's just softer than I thought it should be?
.
.
.

 

i believe that the Brake Performance pads are Centric. My other concern that I noticed and I will let someone more experience comment on this. If I stop completely and then continue to push on the brake pedal it goes further in before stopping movement completely. That I do not understand. I also use to stopping and pumping the brake pedal and it firming up more, but does not.

The noise I hear is much like the pads and rotors are wet and there is a minor amount of slippage, both when I finally stop (go figure) and when I release them. Nothing is sticking, just a sound I never had.

Tom in Dallas

 

No offense taken at the mental view of this soft feel. I have read somewhere on the forum about the "soft pedal" of the S-Types, but this just seems softer than before. Could I just have a "weak" caliper that is not seizing, but someohow acting out of sync with the other one on the front. My only bother about this - is that i had no such noise before the change and compressing the caliper would not seem to be a legit cause of a problem.

Tom in Dallas

 

I was looking into upgrading my brake to the high performance slotted rotors on Rock Auto and noticed that these brake required a break in right away involving several hard stops at around 60mph to avoid glazing or something. I am wondering if maybe these new rotors need to be broken in.

 

I appreciate the response, but as i said in my original post "I properly bedded/seeded the brakes as described in many locations"

This was my guide



Instructions for bedding in your brakes



Thanks again

TBB (Tom) in Dallas

 

ALL pads and rotors should be properly broken in.

Slotted rotors are NOT a performance upgrade, they're for 'bling' only.

 

Appreciate the thought, but as i responded previously.

I appreciate the response, but as i said in my original post "I properly bedded/seeded the brakes as described in many locations"

This was my guide



Instructions for bedding in your brakes

They were much softer until I did bed them, but still not what I had before.

Thanks again

TBB (Tom) in Dallas

 

Curious if anyone knows who makes the brake pads for jag. on these S-types.

Thanks

Tom in Dallas
2005 S-type 3.0

 

From what you have described and as per our technician, it sounds like the Front Brake Pads could have an issue. To solve this, Brake Performance will send you a new set of Front Pads.


Thank you,
Brake Performance


We will see the results and it means that most of you are right about the material issue. Will let you know what happens.

Tom in Dallas

 

I'm sorry... but I believe this is now the 4th thread on the same issue???