Yes, today I got an S-Type for free, only paid for transport. Several people have tried to fix this non-starter over three years, it also needs rust repair on rocker panels. If I can get it to start, I've gotten a cheap S-Type (I can weld), if I can't I've waisted time and money.

Previous owner had bought new starter, but not installed it, I just did. It still doesn't turn the engine, and when testing, the solenoide wire doesn't get current. So the question is why the car refuses power to the starter solenoide. I know there can be many reasons, but maybe someone can give info on what might be common problems for this model. 2005 2.5V6 Aut, VIN SAJAA02N45JN39265.

I'd also like a service manual in pdf if available. Thanks

 

Congratulations on your new find. The no-start may seem a bit daunting, but I've typically found hard faults easier to troubleshoot, as compared to something intermittent.

The service manual (huge PDF) is available near the bottom of this page. Wiring diagrams at the top:

JagRepair.com - Jaguar Repair Information Resource


For the starter circuit, go to figure 02.1 in the wiring diagrams. You can do a lot of troubleshooting from relay R20 under the hood.

I just noticed the relay contacts are not numbered in that diagram, which is annoying. Look on page 12 for the numbering. With the transmission in Park or Neutral, connect a test lead between sockets 3 and 5 and the starter should engage. This mimics the normal operation of the starter relay. If that works, the starter itself is fine and there's no need to replace it. You're not actually starting the engine, only testing the starter operation.

Reinstall relay R20 and place your finger on it. Have a helper turn the key to start. You should feel the relay click. This confirms the relay is receiving the command to actuate. It doesn't confirm the relay is actually sending power to the starter (via contacts 3 and 5), but it does confirm the signal to operate.

Run these two quick tests and this should give you an idea which direction to proceed.

 

Thanks Karl, out of time today, will start there with your input tomorrow :-)

 

Testing as you described Karl, I didn't find what I had expected :-). Unfortunately the legs are not numbered, so let's use the compass.

I had expected to find one with current and one ground. But here's what I found. The ground (86?) should be North, but it has no ground, maybe it's because it's not a direct ground but goes through ECM. But more strange, when I put ignition on, I get a strong current form the East cavity (30?), but there's also a weak current in the West and South. That can't be right?

If I short from East to the West and later East to South, nothing happens

Any ideas? Not sure if I got the relay posts mixed up. The physical relay ahs 30 85 86 87 markings, not 1 2 3 5, is there a translation.

BTW, tried another relay, still nothing

Thanks

 

Hi Karl (if still up in Oregon) and others, I think I found something

I had wondered, every time I put ignition on, the coolant fan started. A bit annoying since it makes noise and draws power, but I put that off till after I hopefully fix the non-start
But... I was under the car, I wanted to test the starter, så a direct connection from the big plus cable to the solenoid. Had expected solenoid to click and starter to engage. But that didn't happen. But the coolant fan started! Just by me connecting solenoid to plus. A short somewhere near the fan? Or anything else this would indicate?

 

Long story short, I hadn't spotted that someone had taken off the ground wire in the fender, so the starter never worked. It does now when shorting 30 and 87 as Karl described as the first test...

To be continued...

 

And 85 shows current when key all they way to start. And relay is fine, and have tried replace with others, same result

That means that all I need now is for 86 (2) to make ground. That wire runs to the ECM so it's computer controlled if I'm allowed to start. So, what are the conditions for starting according to the ECM?:
-P or N on shifter naturally. All the trim around the shifter has been removed by previous owner, and to get it out of P, I have to use a screwdriver to push in the plunger. Whether this will clear up when running or I have another issue, we'll see. But I think the ECM knows what gear it's in, because when left in N and turning key off it chimes for 10 seconds, just like my X-Type
-Keys must be right. I have two keys, both can lock and unlock doors, and I get no "security" message when trying to start
-Electric parking brake doesn't work. Don't know why, and can that affect if I'm allowed to start?
-Should I have my foot on brake pedal when starting? Stop lights work, so it registers that I press the brake, but there are two contacts down there, so not sure
-I see all kinds of messages, gearbox fault, ABS fault, can't remember the rest. They don't seem relevant to me, but I could be wrong

Can any of the above result in the ECM not allowing a start? Any other conditions that need to be met for ECM to allow start? Is there a list somewhere of all that the ECM tests to allow start?

(update, talked to previous owner, the issues it has now with parking brake not working and not being able to take out of Park, those have come during it being stationary and him looking for the error. So it's not likely they caused the non-start, they're probably just a result of it)

 

OK, out of ideas for today, help needed.
Now that I can force the starter by shorting 30 to 87, I tried running it with ignition on. Starter worked fine, but not a hint of starting. Also, when I switch ignition on, am I supposed to be able to hear a fuel pump, haven't heard it
And just for fun, had all fuses out to check, in all three fuse boxes...

 

Hurray, got it started! Short version fount two additional ground wires in right inner fender not attached, no idea why. Attached them, and then I could hear the fuel pump, and yes it started. And now even my parking brake works and all other messages went away...

But...one thing remains, I can't get the shifter out of Park without moving the plunger with a screwdriver, so that's what I would like suggestions on right now...

Couldn't have gotten this far without this forum/Karl!

 

Great progress! Good find on the ground wires. Were they broken or simply disconnected? All in one area? I’m wondering if there was some preceding work in that area? Maybe at a body shop, with a fender removed for repair or replacement?

Not sure what to suggest with the shift lever interlock. On my phone at the moment, so can’t view the wiring diagrams very well. IIRC, one switch at the brake pedal interfaces with the lever interlock, cruise control, and the brake lights. If the brake lights are working (and if only a single switch), I’d investigate the interlock solenoid. How bad is the access? Could you apply battery power and ground directly to test the solenoid?

 

Karl, ground wires were three wires in two places, a foot from eachother in inner right fender. Unbolted. Previous owner had the inner fenders out on both sides to remove front bumber since he bought some fancy foglamp bezels it seems. The ground wires and the non-start history he told me, not sure they lign up. But it starts now, drove a few km yesterday.

There are two contacts affected by brake pedal, can't find in wiring diagram just yet. Brake light works. Will try to get to solenoid today

 

Took it apart today, can see it's been a problem before, and there was a bush-repair... I simply removed it. I'm ok with that...

Assembled the interior, so now time to fix rusty rocker panels

 

Interesting. One quick thought, in case the solenoid itself was not at fault. You mentioned the brake pedal switch appeared to have more than one set of contacts. The brake lights work, but it’s possible the shift lever interlock and cruise control disconnect went through the second contacts.

Go for a test drive away from traffic and engage the cruise control. Lightly tap the brakes and make sure the cruise control disconnects immediately. If not, definitely don’t use cruise control until repaired.

 

Good point! Safety, will check

 

Good problem solving so far!
You've a few cars there to keep you busy.
Nothing wrong with an S Type for free, a nice addition.
Nice looking car as well, looks good in that colour.

 

lol. My free STR has cost me a small fortune so far. Starting w the dreaded coolant leak

 

And then there's fuel. Plus maybe speeding fines...

 

So got around to MOTing it, drove through with no problems. Amazing that brakes are perfect after standing still for 3 years...

But this was also my first longer trip, and the transmission occasionally did this: When starting from standstill, there is a split second of no drive and after that split second you get a kick in your back as the forward trust comes back. First time this happened was after 1 hour driving. I know the transmission oil (and pan) was replaced 4000km ago, not by Jaguar, but previous owner who gave me the car for free says it never did that when he drove it. I checked oil level, about 1/10 of a liter escaped, so couldn't be totally wrong, Oil was more brown than red, I don't know if it should be red?

Any suggestions? BTW, except for this, the transmission (and engine) is perfect.

 

Another small issue is the AC. The fans seem to react to turning speed up and down, but very little air comes out the vents. I removed the pollen filter, didn't help much. I get more air from the outer two vents than from the 2 center vents in dash