well i cannot duplicate the scenario as some times the car starts like it has 3000 original miles and was driven to church every Sunday by a 90 year old, and other times starts like it is trying to save itself from drowning. What I meant by holding the starter longer was that before your message I hadn’t held the starter for <2 seconds, but I started holding it a little longer and it has started every time, but I believe it was all before 5 seconds, the most recent start took probably 3.5 seconds. Anyway in short the 2 times it hasn’t started in the first 1-2 seconds it has started in 3-4 seconds so I’m not totally sure if the ckp is the issue. I’ve also been trying to keep track of what voltage my battery was at when starting the car each time. The first time it took a while to start it was at 12.34v and second was at 12.35v, I don’t know how big of a deal it is because I’ve had the car start fine on 12.20v. It seems to just be completely random on when and why the car doesn’t start immediately.

 

Hmm, hard to say. Here's the official word from Jaguar, with underlined italics added by your truly:

"Note: If CKP Sensor fault exists, engine will start after approximately 5 seconds of cranking as the ECM will default to CMP Sensor 1 signal for synchronization."

This came from the OBD II code document found here:

JagRepair.com - Jaguar Repair Information Resource

That text was from a note for code P0335 (CKP sensor circuit malfunction). Maybe you're hitting the magic time limit without realizing it?

At some point, you'll need to make a guess or two and see what happens. Definitely get a scanner first, to get a better handle on what's happening. But as far as guesses go, a new CKP sensor is not unreasonable. Or if the previous owner thought a cam sensor was bad, you could try one of those. But which cam sensor? If you're getting a fault code for either one, you could try swapping them side to side, and see if the fault follows. That might help save a few of your hard-earned dollars if the sensor itself was not at fault.

In that same document that mentioned the magic 5 second time limit with a bad CKP sensor, I'm not seeing anything indicating the opposite, in case a cam sensor was bad.

Still wondering if you've got a leaking fuel injector or two, causing flooding when trying to start. I found a simple troubleshooting procedure, but it will require live data from a scanner (hint, hint...) so let us know when that is available. Remember my previous comments about the starter cranking speed increasing when the engine is flooded? Does the starter seem to crank faster than normal when the engine won't start? Also, is this a normally aspirated V8 or the supercharged version? As part of the test, you'll need to pull a fuse for the fuel pump. The SC version has two fuel pumps, so that's one extra fuse to pull.

Make sure you keep your foot off the gas pedal while starting. If this is your first fuel-injected car, that's a big difference from older vehicles.

 

I’m going to get a scanner today, but I figured I would throw this out there. Idk if you have watched the video that started this thread, but the problem has become more consistent and I have not been able to get the car to start first try the last 4 starts. It really does not sound good at all. I don’t recon this engine has much time left, as I cannot afford any major repairs (especially if this is a timing issue). Anyway, here’s another video trying to start it this morning, this is not good. Kirk I said the last 4 attempts to start have gone like this, however it always turns over the second try with no check engine lights or anything, I did notice a fairly loud “clicking” noise coming from the engine after starting but I have no idea what that could be.

 

it doesn't sound mechanically damaged. its just firing on a bunch of cylinders before it finally catches by the sounds of that short clip. You have to read the codes, and see what is going on. Its no good just replacing parts at random hoping to fix it

 

Focus on what DoubleChevron said above. Your videos have no value because you need codes to fix your car.
Again get a scanner and come back with what codes you find. There is no other way to get your car fixed.
.
.
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the only code is p0332, but in the past I have had p0171, aswell as p0327/332 at the same time. These 3 codes come on randomly and when I scanned the car yesterday it was only p0332, even though there wasn’t a check engine light.

 

Okay, more progress, even if you don't think so.

Let's make sure we understand the present situation correctly. Sometimes the engine is hard to start, and you have to engage the starter for several seconds before the engine will run. When the engine does start after excessive cranking of the starter, it runs roughly for a short time and makes noise and scares you half to death. But after that it seems to run okay?

If the above summary is correct, here are some next steps:

On your camera, navigate to Settings. Select OFF mode. I can't view the videos myself, but as others have suggested, the engine probably isn't firing on all cylinders for a brief time for reasons unknown. Let's concentrate on determining why. No point in panicking yourself with more doom and gloom videos.

Use your spiffy new scanner to record fuel pressure. See post #2 above. If we should determine the fuel pressure is not up to specs, do NOT panic. Do not sell a kidney just yet to raise $2000.

I'd like to check for injector leakage. Part of the procedure involves disabling the fuel pump. Is this a Type R supercharged model? If so, there will be an extra fuse to pull, so please let us know.

Another symptom of injector leakage is the starter will crank faster than normal due to temporarily lower compression. When the engine is hard to start, do you notice this phenomenon?

Lots of questions here, so please take your time and answer them one by one. And quit scaring yourself!

 

Yes the first part is correct, car has difficulty starting, the makes a loud rattling noise when it starts, along with a very loud clicking noise when trying to start. It is the N/A version. It also does not seem like the starter is going very fast but it’s my first car and the only other car I used I just turn the key for .1 second and it starts.

 

Just got home and reran the scan, got 3 codes. I obviously have a small leak, but is that really enough to make a car not start?

 

does this car have a big vacuum leak somewhere? so it won't start unti he opens the throttle enough to overcome it. sounds like a new oxygen sender would be a good start, I doubt that is your problem though.

 

there is obviously a vacuum leak somewhere, not sure where or how big. I need to get a smoke test done but I feel like it’s not what is causing the starting issues. I was told on Reddit it sounded like a timing chain, but I obviously can’t just jump to the conclusion that that’s what it is. The one really big thing I noticed was that the car starts perfect and always first time if it’s at operating temperature. So I’m gonna have to try to run the codes tommorow morning after the car sits outside all night.

 

Did you do that test, which I recommended at the very beginning that you use a huge screwdriver, hold the metal end to various positions - where you suspect the noise to come from - and the grip to your ear? Did you figure out, where the noise is coming from?

Additional to the possibilities I mentioned above, noise at startup is also typical to that "delay-moment" of getting the oil to where it should be in the engine, or worded differently:

>> The engine at startup is lubricated exclusively by oil delivered by the oil pump once it begins to turn, as there is no other mechanism to supply pressure to the top end immediately.
>> While oil clings well to components due to modern formulations, hydraulic tappets (lifters) often make a noise for a few seconds as they fill with oil after gravity drains it back to the
>> sump.

This would also explain as to why the engine does not make a noise at startup, when it is "warm" - but it may not be the operating temperature, which matters here, but the fact that the oil is still up there at the higher regions of the engine, and has not yet all dripped down into then sump.

I am not sure, how to fix this, if that is your problem, but it would definitely be worth checking your engine oil level, plus:
How old is your oil? How old is your oil filter? What oil exactly are you using?

 

I tried your test, but it didn’t really help since the sound only occurs when starting the car and I can’t be in both places at the same time. Also my oil has around 400 miles on it (about a month old) , brand new filter, full synthetic oil.

 

Nope, none of those codes are going to cause starting problems. No need to panic about them just yet.

The only one of interest for right now is P1000. That simply means the various self-test monitors have not been completed. Typically several drive cycles are required since the last time the codes were cleared. Once that happens, the code changes to P1111. You will always have one or the other (but never both) at any given time.

Some fault codes are inhibited until the monitors are complete. So for now, simply record any codes you might find but do NOT clear them. The car is fully driveable, right? Take it out on the freeway and give it a good (insert name of ethnic group) tune up. In other words, work the engine hard and blow out the cobwebs, so to speak. With any luck, this will help complete the monitors and maybe provide some helpful codes. The only caveat is if the check engine light starts flashing. That means the catalytic converters may be getting damaged, so throttle back.

Something else to check: Look at the ignition coils. I think they are easily accessed on the N/A V8. Do any of them look newer than the others? If so, somebody may have been messing with them recently. Can you see any brand names on them? You want to see quality brands like Denso or NGK. Many forum members have reported problems with bargain brand coils, especially no-name stuff from who knows where.

Another thing is pull a couple of coils for inspection. I'd suggest the aft one on each bank. Not sure about the V8, but oil is prone to collect in the spark plug wells. This prevents those spark plugs from firing properly.

Still waiting on the live data for fuel pressure, hint, hint...

 

I am presently working on an important feature for any device that can access the internet. It's still in the Beta test stage, but once perfected, I have full confidence it will be mandated by the government.

It's an automatic electromechanical arm with a neural sensor network. If it senses you are asking for advice on Reddit for anything more consequential than a good shawarma restaurant, the arm will unmercifully slap you around. Since the device isn't quite ready, can you take care of this yourself? Thanks.

 

I’ll respond to all of these things,
1. I cleared the code just to see if the car would run different (it didnt) I had already mentioned the code earlier but it was p0332, knock sensor low voltage. It has also had p0171 and p0327. But those have not yet showed up on my scanner. I only got those when I went to autozone (before I got the scanner lol, the only reason I knew to check was because engine light came on, it turns on for a day then back off for a week or two.)

2. Yes car is drivable, I just am nervous to “really” push it, as it’s a 21 year old car and who knows what will happen if I get on it a little too hard.
3. I have the live fuel data from when I was driving, I just have no clue how to send it to you, but the idle fuel pressure was about 55-60 psi the whole time. When I had the ignition in the “ON” position, fuel pressure was 46 psi.

 

The $64,000 question:

Was this startup noise present before the oil change?

 

Not sure if this picture helps but this was at idle also this was right after I got it, the fuel pressure is a little higher but idk what the difference is. I have no clue what most of these mean lol.

 

short answer: I have no idea, bought the car, check engine light turned on 1 day later, took to shop, they quoted new oil pan, (among many other things) which obviously would need a new oil change. And here we are now. When was purchasing the car I did not hear any noises, but the guy also had it warming up the whole drive there so it was warm when I got there and got to start it up.( this is my first car as I have said before, I realize how naive I was to buy this car in the first place, the dude blocked me on Facebook after he sold it to me)

 

You might find a smile plastered on your face.

I'm not talking abusing the poor car. Don't go drifting in front of the police station and then lead them on a chase. But if you've just been putzing around town, give the engine a little workout. My '02 V6 has over 400k miles on it and I regularly do 75+ on the freeway.

You just did. Don't need graphs and charts. Just a basic number at idle.


​​​​​​​Okay, 55-60 might be high at idle. Look at the chart in post #2 above. It says you should have about 43.5 at idle. I'd have to do a little research tomorrow to confirm this. Anybody else with a N/A V8 that can verify this value on the scanner? IIRC, the value reported to the computer is not raw data, but is compensated for engine vacuum.