That's OK! I buy the cars with 60K+, done over not many years. Just nicely run in.

 

Just have about 7,100 miles on my S-Type. Don't have camera to take picture at the moment. Will plan to post tomorrow.

Keeping the Golden Cat in a climate controlled garage.

Michael
2007 S-Type (3.0) Winter Gold / Champaign and Mocha

 

STR was picked up in Dec 2009 with 65,000 miles and now sits at 93,000 miles.

Engine, transmission, radiator, expansion tank, struts and all other parts are still working well, go figure!

 

As I suspected Rob.

Thanks for that. My S-Type is at 104k, Suspension is a bit tired but still ok. Had to do the expansion tank and DCCV. Have a couple 3.0 related oil leaks, but everything else is fine.

I don't get why people think these cars will self destruct at 40-50k miles.

George

 

Part of it is the decades-long perception of poor Jaguar quality/reliability. We all know that Ford's ownership forced Jaguar to step up its game in the last decade. Is it world-class now? No, but it can certainly be worth the risk if you can D-I-Y most issues and routine maintenance....

 

It's not just with these cars, its with any car, who wants to buy a high mileage car with 100k miles now a days?? Only people looking to get a steal or just need a beater. I like to keep my car as new as possible so it bothers me to put the miles on it. I have a leased Duramax silverado so thats my beater . I typically go 30 or 40,000 miles over the lease contract but i'd much rather pay $6000 to dump the truck and make it GM's problem to sell it.

BTW, haven't driven my car in over a month now, its been sitting inside with a dead battery..damn snow! When is it going to end?

 

I respect your opinion and please don't think I'm trying to be argumentative here. We just have different mentalities. And that's ok, after all we do live in a democracy and there are different markets to satisfy both our needs.

My family has been in the car business for a long time. We own both an independent repair shop and have a used car dealer license(although we don't sell cars on a lot at this point, just by order and consignments for friends). I am at the dealer auctions at least once a month, however I am not actively employed in the car business, my brother took over the business after my father passed.

With that being said, At least 50% of the cars at the dealer auction are over 100k at any given sale. The business in that segment of the market is brisk. Cars are lasting longer and 100k (especially with imports) is treated as 50k was 10 years ago in terms of the cars remaining useable life. As of 2010 The aucitons themselves also reflected this in their policies. Cars over 100k used to be automatic "red light" what you see is what you get, as is, your problem. Now "green light" status has been extended to 125k - which means all major systems have to be operational, and any repair over $500 is qualificaiton for arbitration. I've only arbitrated one car in my life. It was an 01 BMW 740i with 77k I bought 3 years ago, drove beautifuly, got it home, went to back out of my driveway, and it had no reverse LOL. Drove it straight back to the auction and went to arbitration. The seller offered me $1k off. I told him no thanks, keep it.

The only cars with low (probably high for you) 30-40k miles tend to be the lease returns sold by the various manufacturers (or their respective finance companies)at their sales. Most of these are open, BMW and MB does closed sales (BMW and MB new car dealers only), but once they cherry pick they run them again in the afternoon to let the independent dealers buy the rest. Both of my Jags have been bought this way through Jaguar Credit. Both one owner leased cars, no accident history etc. You have the VINS available 24-48hrs before to run the requisite checks of the cars on your hit list.

Personally like I've said, the sweet spot for me is buying at 45-55k and driving till 100k or slightly over.

I completely don't get your I want to keep my car new, so I don't drive it mentality. What's the point of having it?? Granted, you seem like you are affluent enough that you just don't care that much about depreciation, for your solution to keeping your car new is leasing another new car, and eating huge mileage overages. I bet between the duramax down payment, sum of lease payments, and the mileage overage, I could have paid for my 45-50k STR in its entirety, and gotten half my $$ back when I sell it at 100K, and driven it 50k miles.

I have a 1990 500sl with 73k original miles in my garage tucked away, that also hasn't been started in a month, but that just comes out to play in the spring. BTW, that car had more issues due to sitting than ones with 150k + I've seen. I bought it this way though, and it just fell into my lap.

Interestingly enough, in my search for an STR, the cars with the relatively low miles (40k and under), who are asking a premium are the cars I've seen sit for months at dealers. Cars with 70-90k priced at 2/3 - 1/2 the price depending on age always sell within a few days.

Take care,

George

 

Yep, we're all different in how we approach automobile ownership. As a kid, I was motivated mostly by flash and speed. Now, I'm motivated mostly by cost-of-ownership. As a kid, I saw cars as assets. Now, I see them as liabilities. For the past 15 years, I've found that if I can essentially steal a well-cared-for lease-return vehicle that's about three years old with somewhere between 20,000 and 40,000 miles on it, we can run it for at least three to four years for less than half the cost of what that same vehicle would have cost me to run from new. The caveats are:

1. Do the necessary research on the VIN before even thinking about making an offer.

2. Buy in declining economic conditions when dealers are hungrier.

3. Pay cash. That's the absolutely most cost-effective way, even compared to low-interest loans.

4. Understand that routine maintenance and most repairs must be D-I-Y in order to keep costs down as much as possible.

5. Most importantly, if you cannot steal the deal, be prepared to walk away and not look back. Emotion can never be allowed to be part of the equation - it kills the financials.

 

The one thing I'm not so sure about is #2. Yes the dealers might be hungrier, but as the recession has continued on, used car values have gone up at the wholesale level. Reason being many more people are buying them to avoid the cost of a brand new car. This is especially true with people who were in a lease that has come due in the last two years, and instead of getting a new car, bought a used car as the replacement. So that is a fine line. You may make out better with the dealer in terms of profit margin. (BTW - if you are looking at a used car at a dealer PM me the vin. If it went through the auctions I can tell you what the dealer paid), but you may get bitten by increased demand.

Cars can be assets, or at least non depreciating ones. My brother buys a car at the auction every 3-6 months, drives it, cleans it up, and sells it for cost or a slight profit.

Take care,

George

 

I respect your opinion too...we just all have different ways. I'm sure its just me, but thats the way my dad always did it when i was younger and i can't help it heh. Actually depreciation is one of the main reasons i dont like to put too many miles on it. I bought my car for 28,500 with 11,500 miles on it. Then it cost me 2000 more for the Select warranty. I probably overpaid, but if i put another 30,000 on this car I will only be able to sell it for 15 grand in a couple of years i think. And thats not good..

I disagree with paying cash by the way. I never pay cash for anything. No down payments on house, no down payments on car loans or leases, finance 100% IF you can get it at low interest. I have my XKR and the S-Type R thru Jag Credit @ 1.9. Always better to have the money in the bank. Of course, if the car is under 10k then it makes sense to just pay cash and get it over with. But when we are talking cars that are 20g's+ then i finance all the way. I won't buy a car that i don't have the money in the bank to pay it off all in one shot though if i ever had to..

 

It's certainly your choice to finance. But when you have some free time, research the topic with leading economists and tax gurus. Cash is indeed king from an absolutely lowest-cost perspective, and has been so since the tax laws changed significantly back in 1986....

 

Back on topic, I went from 91k to 93k driving my wife's new used 2000 from Colorado back to Florida.

 

My father was exactly the opposite. He was an immigrant and came from the old country (Greece in his case). He paid cash for everything. He was extremely averse to owing people or banks money.


As far as your STR - first what do you think it will be worth with say 30k miles v/s 45k. My guess - $20-21k with 30k, $17-18k with 45k. If it costs you more than 3k to avoid those miles by putting them on another car that costs you $$, then it's a moot point. Plus the additional insurance, registration, wear and tear etc on the other car. It's not a winning game.

The only reason to ever finance something when you have cash (beyond an emergency reserve) is if you can finance it long term for less then your expected rate of return on the cash including any tax advantages is greater than the finance costs. Otherwise it will cost you more.

Take care,

George

 

Actually i pretty much drive my '98 STS all the time for errands and such. Only money i put into it was new struts and a few simple things that i did myself. Had the GM extended warranty on it and they replaced the motor at 58k miles

The leased vehicle is for work so i use it to make money. I love the fact that you can scratch it up, eat in it, get dings on it and change the oil whenever you feel like it, and you can simply turn the keys in and walk away. Pop a few of the dents out yourself, give it a good claybar and buffing and your good to go!! Another reason why i would never buy a car that was leased. My father never changed the oil in his leased vehicles. And i am talking putting 50 or 60,000 miles on the car with the factory oil change! The motors used to tick and sound horrible. Never changed the air filter either, so the gas mileage would drop down to virtually nothing. Turned it back in and never heard a word about it!

And correct about the investing part. I dont think i am THAT good at investing, but i've managed to turn $15,000 into $90,000 (pre-tax) in under a year. A lot of luck involved with that, but if i had paid cash for my car I would not have never risked that money. A friend of mine is that way about paying cash for everything. He paid cash for his house before the recession hit and is screwed beyond belief. He needs money bad and doesn't know what to do. If he would have listened to my advice, wouldn't have had that problem would he?? But to each his own. I say do what feels right and you'll be happy.

 

Let me guess, the northstar motor blew a headgasket by lifting the heads right out of the block because of the iron bolts stripping the threads out of the aluminum block. Gotta Love GM's engineers sometimes...At least they made good on it...

That changes things substantially. You can deduct the entire amount of the lease payment (and any mileage / damage fees) from your operating expenses and pre-tax income. Initially I just thought you leased a truck so you could save miles on the STR.

Good Job on the investing.

As far as your friend, he would have actually been in a much worse position imho. He would have had a negative equity position in the house.If it was financed, especially @ 100% LTV. Best case scenario, if he needed out of it, he would have to put up the cash to cover the loss in market value, or he would have been strapped with the same payment (based on the then market value), plus finance charges, and be paying even MORE for the house.

I suppose he could walk away if it was financed, but he'd get sued for the difference when they did an asset analysis (if they foreclosed, and he had the cash or other assets in his name), and he'd ruin his credit as well. I own my home outright as well. I bought it before the real surge, but the value is close to what it was when I bought it now, I'm still ahead but not by much. I could have sold it for 200k+ in profit during the crazyness of 06-07, BUT I would have inevitably rolled the $$ into another home. Just tell him to weather the storm. He has no worries, and minimal expenses (relative to if he had financed it).

George

 

George nailed it from the free-and-clear home ownership perspective. So many advantages, so few disadvantages. We've been free-and-clear on both homes for more than 20 years now, and that one advantage has allowed me to build our wealth exponentially. Read the book "Rich Dad, Poor Dad" by Robert Kiyosaki. Originally published in 1997, it still rings very true today. Especially in this miserable economy....

 

George,

Some of that may be a timing issue. I bought my S-Type in Jan 09 when nobody was buying anything so I got it fairly cheap. However, as you have noted, used car prices have gotten more expensive and I have seen 2005 S-Types selling now for quite a bit more now than when I bought mine.

Mike

 

Yeppers. I paid $1000 extra to have the dealer timesert the block so that wouldn't happen again either. Other than that major issue that plagues them, great cars. I'd take my 13 year old cadillac over ANY newer hyundai, ford fusion, acura etc. I test drove 6 different cars looking for a DD beater for under 20k and couldn't, so I kept the Caddy

 

They are great cars, straight fast, and comfy. Great on gas too for what they are. I had an '00 SLS for a while. Plus the Bose stereo in those cars straight kicked ***. There's an easy, easy way to add an aux input to them if you have the cd changer in the center console too.

BTW, the 2000 ones had a coarser thread pitch head bolt, so they were less likely to lift the head (Read: they did it later in life).
2003 is the year to get.. They changed the head bolt to a longer bolt with the coarse head pitch and haven't had any problems since.
I've often considered picking up an 03+ Deville (I guess DTS is the model) as a daily driver.

Take care,

George

 

I guess i will chime in as well, since i think i have everyone beat. 2000 S-type 191,XXX actual, still on original tranny, replace engine at 176,XXX while in Nashville on a project. Only 2 places in Nashville would touch the Car the dealer and one very good local from Greece i think. Found engine with 32k and install. Should have just scrapped the car but love that blue color.