I already had a thread on this but I can't find it. So after having an enormous service on my STR for the dreaded under supercharger coolant hose during which many while you're at things were addressed I developed an intermittent starter issue. I took back to my very experienced mechanics and he could find nothing so we decided to just put in a new started AND ... I had him add a tap on the voltage feed to the starter solenoid. Well yesterday I got to utilize it. I was moving cars around placed the Jag across my neighbor's driveway who's on vacation in Turkey but she comes home today. The car started right up and I put it in Park turned it off and then proceeded to move the other cars. The car wasn't running that long. When I went back to start it ... no starter ARGH! driveway blocked and no way to move my car. I tried it maybe 12 times over 45 minutes and nothing and that tap showed no voltage but I could hear something click. The battery measured a little over 12V with no drop when i turned the key.. I let it set 3 hours with hood up and went back out and it started right up. Just before doing so I ran the shifter through all the positions ending in park. Is there a possible switch failure on the shifter that's preventing the voltage from going to the starter solenoid?

Thoughs?

At this point this car has stranded me in difficult situations twice now so if my mechanic can't definitively find it by reproducing the issue the car gets sold as it's worthless to me this way.

Thanks and no it's not the battery.

 

Could it be one/both of the (8mm hex head) bolts that hold the shift cable to the trans (under the car)?

If loose/missing the car can be fooled as to what gear if any it's in and refuse to start.

 

I had a similar problem on mine. IIRC I fixed it by disconnecting (unscrewing the bolts) the switch on the side of the selector mechanism in the centre console. It was a very easy fix.

 

If that was a 2000 then very different transmission!

 

So I tried stating an hour ago and the SOB started right up!

 

Yes. It is a different transmission. Is the selector (j-gate end) similar? Does it too have a starter inhibitor switch on it?

 

Fair enough. I'll send $1000 cash and a tow truck in the morning. All you have to do is get the title ready.

All seriousness aside, can you please elaborate on the click you've heard when the fault is active?

Is it a light ping, such as when a relay actuates? Kinda skeptical on that, as the typical relay only makes a faint noise. Don't think you're going to hear that from the driver's seat.

Or do you hear more of a heavy metallic clunk, such as when the starter solenoid (on the side of the starter motor) is energized?

If you are hearing a clunk from the solenoid, that tells us the upstream portion of the control circuit is good.

When the fault is present, have you looked at the indicator lights on the J-gate bezel? If P or N is not illuminated, the starter command is inhibited.

When your mechanic replaced the starter, did that also include the solenoid? Or did he transfer the existing solenoid over to the new starter?

This extra wire you installed: Is it attached to the heavy cable feeding the solenoid? Or some other place?

 

I've forgotten how to use this forum so quoting someone in a reply doesn't seem to work properly.
I don't know where my mechanic made the tap point I assume that it's on the + terminal of the starter solenoid. The problem is not in the starter or the solenoid and no that's not what I hear click. I'm going to take a SWAG that what I'm hearing is the relay that the starter portion of the ignition switch engages to energize the solenoid. So perhaps that relay is faulty?

At any rate I'm no longer physically able to work on cars so there's very little that I can do other than put gas in them , drive and pay for repairs. If I sell this car it would have to go to someone who is a good DIY type who is willing to take this project on and find the issue.. It won't be sold cheap as I have about $11k in repairs new tires etc. I'd crush it Goldfinger style before I'd sell cheap.

My mechanics has one more try to find the definitive cause, it has to be proven otherwise I can't trust the car any more.

This morning I tried to start it and the starter did not activate. I turned off and tried again and it worked. Id repeated that and it started again. So it's very flaky.. As noted early in the thread ,when the car was blocking my neighbors driveway last Saturday it failed 12-14 times in a row and moving the gear selector had no effect. Then 3 hours later it started right up so I moved back into my driveway gave the car a quick wash and put the cover on.

I'm waiting to talk with my mechanic to see if we can work out some parameters that are acceptable to me. I'm done with the "Well let's try this part" approach.

 

If you're positive the starter or solenoid is not making the noise, replacing the starter control relay is certainly worth a gamble. One caveat: Other relays may click at the same time, but it would be a simple matter to have a helper turn the key while you rest a finger on the suspect relay to isolate the source of the noise.

If the starter relay does click, that only confirms it is responding to the command input. The click test does not verify power is actually being connected to the solenoid. In that case, the easiest path would be to swap in a known good relay. I am on my phone so don't have good access to the wiring diagrams at the moment. But if the fog lamp relay is the same size, make sure that system works and then you'll have a good donor. Won't cost a cent to try. You'd only have to buy a new relay if the existing one is proven bad. Access is super easy too. As simple as changing a fuse.

While the suspect relay is removed, inspect the prongs for discoloration. If you see any signs of heat, the internal contacts have likely failed. In extreme cases, the heat can affect the sockets, causing the metal's temper to soften. This causes poor contact, making the problem worse. If not too bad, sometimes removing and reinstalling the relay is enough to make a good connection again.

The symptoms don't quite match, but examine where the battery's ground cable attaches to the body. The bolt passes into the wheelwell. Moisture (mixed with NJ road salt) can wick up via the threads and affect this very important connection. It would be well worth the few minutes required to disassemble and clean this connection.

 

Was my post just more pointless blather? Make your opinion known and click the Lacking Insight and Knowledgeable Experience button below.

Which part of "I am unable to work on my cars myself" do you not understand?

 

So after a VERY LONG delay in getting my mechanics attention this morning we've worked out a plan that should further isolate the cause of this issue.

So far I've had several failures the last indicated no voltage to the starter solenoid which is brand new. 14 attempts didn't get it started again, nor did moving the shifter about.
Waiting 3 hours did. Both my wife and I heard a relay like click every time I turned the key from just ignition on to engage starter.

Recently I attempted it again and no starter action but electrical is fully on.

So we're going to try this again. We'll both be listening for the click. I'll be listening with my engine stethoscope on the relay and if it's clicking then that eliminates and shift micro-switches as the cause so either the relays contacts are at fault or there's a wiring harness from issue from the relay's base socket or in the wire from there to the solenoid. This can be confirmed via insertion of a paperclip in the proper spots in relay socket. We've all been there before right?

This it seems to me will nail the culprit.

 

As stated in Karl's most recent post, verifying whether the started relay is clicking or not, does not confirm whether power is reaching the solenoid, nor whether the ground return from solenoid and starter is good.

Checking these is always the best first moves, as well as remembering that modern vehicles have their hot side connected (perhaps via fuse) to B+ with any and all switching done in the negative or ground-seeking returns.

Cheers,

 

I realize all of that as I mentioned bypassing the relay in case the wiring harness is intermittently faulty and not the relay. That is something my mechanic will have to handle. I think I can change the relay but check any grounds no. When he did the major service of the under the SC coolant hose and then the starter later he cleaned all the ground points since the engine compartment was so massively apart.

 

So I finally decided to let my mechanic take another shot at fixing this after swapping a new starter relay which did nothing. The battery is charged up and all the other electrical systems work but no crank ...
On Wednesday it went via flat bed, arrived there and he crawled in while it was still on the flatbed and it wouldn't crank. Good he thought now I can trace what's wrong. They unloaded the car and put on his lift. Next he crawled in and started up immediately!

I asked him if Rod Serling was in the passenger seat but no ...
Badd Badd kitty just loves the service garage I guess ...

 

So here's what he's found:

OK, so your fault code B1681 indicates the Instrument Cluster (IC) was missing communications with the Passive Anti Theft System (PATS) transceiver.

This part is housed around the ignition switch and they are NLA except used. I'm not interested in that.

I'll have part # later today. Bu it's probably a Ford part so there may be more NOS around once we know the ford part number. Any ideas?

 

hello bob. Another car saga i see. At least you did not scrap her yet. I know the feeling. If your any idea is about parts i would think maybe lincoln ls or ford thunderbird or mondeo for the transciever. I dont know if a reflash of the i/c would help or not. What diagnostic software is your tech using. If sdd then maybe the recommendations tab could be helpful after using the symptoms function. Best of luck. Just looked around on parts sites and ebay. I think when you get a part number you will be good

 

I have this used switch that is complete with a key. I believe the transceiver is still good. Cant remember why i bought it. Maybe to replace mine but ended up fixing original. Anyway you can have it. Just tell me where to send it. Looks like transceiver is part of new switch

 

I was wrong. Here is part number you need 2r83 15607 aa

took it off my used switch. You can have this one if you want

 

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1pza...w?usp=drivesdk

that is a link to a ignition switch tsb to take the guts out to remove the transceiver. The pin to push is underneath the transceiver electrical connector

 

This