I don't think Staatsof has it quite right.

Each disc has the data (maps and stuff) and if there are software updates, they're there also. Thus each disc is a standalone product. If your navigation unit's firmware needs updating when a subsequent disc version is put in, the disc will update your firmware and make the data available.

If you upgrade from say BA to BJ, there may be more than 1 firmware upgrades required. The nav unit will update to the latest version. I personally updated from BD to BH. It took a long time. When I later updated from BH to BJ, it took considerably less time. Chances are, the first (BD to BH) had 1 or more major firmware updates while the later process (BH to BJ) had almost nothing.

NAVTEQ does not sell two variants of each version. Each disc contains the latest firmware and the latest data. Otherwise, when I went from BC to BH, NAVTEQ would have had to provide an out of date disc to update to some firmware version first that is already outdated.

Now, what I can't address is the issue of updating from BC to BH and then trying to use version BC. That's why I don't keep old discs.

 

You could be right. I depended upon the opinions of a couple of experts.

I never said that Navteq SOLD two versions. If you bought an update clearly the disc would have any required firmware updates on it. If it came with the car that wouldn't be needed.

 

The disc that goes in a new Navigation doesn't need to update the system because the firmware is already up to date but it's the same disc.

When I upgraded from BH to BJ, the unit read the version off the disc, compared it's version number to the version that already was written to the firmware. Since the versions were the essentially the same, the disc read the couple of changes and updated and then went directly to the data and the first display. However, if you had put that disc in a Nav unit that hadn't been updated yet, it would update the firmware and that would take considerably longer.

Those discs hold a lot of 0's and 1's. It's not hard to include both maps and the firmware plus the update program on the same disc.

 

We can't determine if does or does not without directly comparing the two. I'll reach out to George again about this. But capacity isn't the point. There's a great reason for leaving the firmware update off of the EOM versions supplied to Jaguar.

Since there were no 09-10 S-types if you get a copy of that disc I'd bet you're safe.

 

when I busted the ISO open, on the first layer is the OS and updates, the second layer contains POI's MAPS, and images.

The boot loader on the software first checks your firmware version and determines how far to rev up the unit.

If the disk is burned improperly you will not make a coaster you will make a disk that is only readable by the current firmware for which the disk is desgined for.

I cant stress enough how important it is to get the 7bit layer break right when using IMGBURN, NERO or other variants.

 

Ok guys,

I STILL believe that there is a difference between the OEM versions (supplied with new cars) and UPGRADE versions (which are programmed to update the nav). The nav has a version check built in which compares the firmware to the disc. BTW, the OS isn't on the disc - its stored in Flash Rom in the NAV unit. I used to work at tele-atlas once upon a time in 1998 when GPS was in the movies, and the first add on GPS recievers were coming to market. I've seen how the software developers handle this for two reasons. They want to make it as difficult as possible to update your nav with a pirated disc.

I guarantee you I can make working copies of both. The simplest way to test this is to get two nav discs of the same generation one supplied with the car, and one a purchased update disc. Rip them both to iso and do a bit by bit comparison. I bet you there's a firmware update file on the upgrade one

Take care,

George

 

Surely the "OS" (nav firmware) is updated from the disc. If the nav loses it, you get the blank nav screen as posts on here show, but it can be reloaded from the disc if you do it right.

The OE-supplied disc may have some or no firmware, even so.

 

So did you ever get that initial disc you got to work?

If it's just a proper burning issue what have some of these guys done wrong.
When I get an original I know I'll want to copy it load it and stash the original too.

 

Even though mine's ancient I'd like to copy it properly (it has to be getting worn) but don't know how.

 

The OE disc may have the firmware that matches the firmware the car was loaded with, BUT, it doesn't have the bootloader to take the nav into firmware update mode and flash it with newer firmware to make the disc work in a nav unit with older firmware. The existing firmware on the nav will just be like oh imcompatible disc. Do these Jags store a crude basemap in the flash rom? My aftermarket pioneer nav unit did - my BMW does not. If the nav disc is ejected for whatever reason, navigation is greyed out as an option on the idrive.

Take care,

George

 

I just love this stuff. Here we all are discussing how to cheat a vendor out of their intellectual property. I feel dirty even though I'm only discussing it. As a retired long time software author I've never understood why people thought they could download all those tunes on the original Napster and it's OK.

Sounds like this situation potentially has a number complicating tricks to thwart
the Napster generation. I support the idea of it being legal to make backup copies of the disk or loading all of my "legal" CDs onto my hardrive or MP3 player.

 

I never got the initial ebay disk to work since it was missing an entire layer.

I did borrow the same disk from someone local with the same P/N and made a sucessful copy.

I never tried to transpose the 'Sytem' layer with the 'Data' layer from the 2 disks.

 

I think its curiousity, I have no intention of "ripping off" vendors but Im exploring my curiousity. Im a problem solver I wanted to know why the disk didnt work properly and thats what I found.

 

Honestly, I think it's more about keeping nav systems in tact rather than thwarting piracy. Of all the Jags out there, how many guys are on this forum. How many guys are going to attempt this. What I think they are afraid of was people haphazardly switching discs, OR thinking they can update their nav with their friend with the newer car's disc. Ie. I take my 03 to Bobs - I put the 05 nav disc from bobs car in it. It updates my firmware, then I give him his disc back. Now my 03 disc wont work anymore.... Then what?

Take care,

George

 

the firmware does downgrade, you can use the BI firmware with a BH disk as I currently have.

you cannot go the other way, due to the structure changes in the OS and data.

 

Is this automatically initiated? Like you stick and older disc in and it downgrades, OR once ur at a certain firmware, you need some special service mode procedure to initiate a downgrade kind of like the apple i devices....

Take care,

George

 

I have the 2009-2010 disc as well as my original 2005 disc and I can go back and forth with no problem. My copy attempts gave a disc that was readable but I never could get the new maps except with the factory 2009-2010 disc.
.
.
.

 

Ok this basically changes everything. Next question. Did the nav do any updating when you inserted the 2009-10 disc the first time?

Thanks in advance,

George

 

I think this thread is so far into the weeds that we may never see the facts again.

Lots of theories not enough hard facts. It reminds me a bit of all those competing theories regarding cosmology that they run on the Science Channel all the time.

Someone needs to to do a controlled test to know for sure.

 

The UK guys had a meet where people borrowed a newer disk. It updates the firmware. You then use your existing disk. Doesn't sound exciting BUT if your old disk didn't let you input a destination when moving then this upgrade of the firmware will.