2002 S-Type V8 4.0L (Australia)
Hello I am trying to get my grandpa's S-Type started. it has been sitting for about a month and will crank but not start.
I realised that I couldn't hear the fuel pump turn on when I turned the key so I checked out the rear fuse box. The control circuit seems ok as the relay is switching however there is no power to the fuel pump fuse itself (F17 in this case).
Does anyone have an idea of why that may be? thanks!

 

Maybe there's a "schrader" valve where you could measure fuel pressure.

Or remove any fuel pipe and at each key on should spurt fuel each time.

But those pumps hate sitting so chances are needs replacing.

 

Yep that's how I had an idea that the fuel pump wasn't working; no fuel pressure at all.
Really just not sure as to why the fuel pump fuse wouldn't have power to it. I've tried to study the electrical drawings but to no avail.

 

Er... give karl a chance and he may have ideas

 

Welcome to the forum. Please raise your right hand and repeat the following oath:

"I, (insert name) [actually say your name, not just 'insert name'] do solemnly swear to come back when the problem is resolved and post the fix."

We have a lot of unresolved zombie threads floating around, and don't need any more. So please be kind to the next guy with a similar problem, and let us know what fixed it.


Please look at these two pictures. Note the different shape of the rear fuse panels. Which one matches what you have? There was a big change in wiring in the middle of 2002. The first image is the early version. The rear fuse box is a rectangle sitting at an angle:




This image shows the later version for that year, informally called the 2002.5 model year. The rear fuse box is curved and tapered:



I had an A-HA! moment looking at the two versions, wondering which you might have. On the later version (curved/tapered) there is no fuse F17. However, there may be a spare fuse sitting in this unused location. This would explain why you found no power there. If indeed you have the earlier version, F17 gets direct battery power, as do all all fuses F10 through F32 in the rear fuse panel. It would be very unusual to have a problem upstream of this fuse, leaving you with no power in such a simple portion of the circuit. That's what makes me think you have a later model.

Wiring diagrams are here, top of the page:

JagRepair.com - Jaguar Repair Information Resource


Once confirmed which version you have, we can walk you through some troubleshooting steps. Please be aware these fuel pumps are infamous for seizing after extended periods of inactivity.

 

Great thanks so much for your help!
Unfortunately it is the earlier version with the rectangular fuse box. Also I had noted that for fuses F10 through F18, only F14, F15 and F16 had voltage readings. I think I'll check for any signs of corrosion or moisture in the fuse box. Very strange indeed.

 

Oh well, thought I was on to something with the two versions.

Still puzzled how you’ve lost power to so many fuses. I think those feed circuits come straight from the battery. Hard to imagine what could have happened, unless you find corrosion like you’re thinking.

When test results seem far-fetched, I’ve learned the hard way to review the process. Could it be something simple like testing the wrong fuses? Maybe the labels are misleading. We can blame Jaguar.

For F17, we could also check power at the fuel pump relay. It’s a straight shot from the fuse to the relay. Should clear up any possible confusion. Sorry I can’t tell you which socket to check right now. My tablet chokes on big PDFs, so will have to wait until tomorrow when I’m back at work.

Hope you’re not in a huge rush. Long-distance troubleshooting can be frustratingly slow, so thanks for your patience.

 

Well you were right in saying to review the process. I found out that my multimeter was faulty hahah. I've borrowed another one that works and I found the issue. A relay was wired in between the F17 fuse and the Fuel pump relay terminal 3. The control cables for this relay run somewhere near the gear shift lever in the front but not sure where exactly. I think this relay may be faulty, so I ended up just running a cable straight from the f17 fuse to the fuel pump relay and now the pump works. I can hear it when I turn the key.
However the engine still won't start... I tested the fuel rails and there's no pressure so I'm thinking it could be the fuel filter? Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated!
Thanks

 

You're new here so your faux pas will be overlooked this one time, but there's no need to state when I'm right. It's just a given around here. Consider how much bandwidth would be tied up stating the obvious. The entire internet would likely come to a screeching halt!

All seriousness aside, great work on your part. First you figured out the misbehaving meter. Then you found the mystery relay.

Does this relay appear to be aftermarket? Any markings on it? If it's a common Bosch-style relay, you might see numbers next to the prongs, such as this:



If anything like that, please let us know what is connected where. I am curious which of these terminals were connected to the stock wire between the fuse and factory relay. Perhaps this was part of an aftermarket security system? Just thinking out loud, but could there be an additional electrical shutoff valve between the pump and engine? That might explain why you can hear the pump running but have no pressure at the engine.

Any unusual recent history on the car? Was it parked for a mechanical reason? Or all was good but just hadn't been driven in a while?

 

Hahaha if you say so. I was pretty happy with myself because I was sure it would have solved the problem but unfortunately not!
Yes it does seem to be aftermarket it's a Tyco relay (vf4-15f11-s01). I did see markings on it but can't remember if it was a normally open or normally closed relay. I'll let you know exactly when I go back tomorrow.
Because the fuel rail had no pressure I undid the fuel lines leaving the fuel pump to see if any fuel was flowing out of the pump and none was at all. So I removed the pump again and tested it in a bucket of water.
What I found was the water was escaping out of where the motor connects into the plastic that joins to the hose. I'm not really sure why that is? If the part wasn't so expensive I would just buy a whole new assembly and be done with it but I'm trying my best to fix it first.


Nothing unusual about the car. One day it wouldn't start and my grandpa was in no rush to get it fixed as he didn't need it any more, so it sat for a month.

 

Looks like your fuel pump assembly is missing the Non-Return Valve (NRV). It must have fallen out when you had the cover (with hoses) removed. Details at this other forum, courtesy of our own Neilr:

https://www.jaguarforum.com/threads/...inners.130129/


Look around your work area for a brass piece like this:


Photo courtesy of Neilr


Glad those release collars on the pump assembly didn't give you any trouble during removal. I was going to warn you about them, but wasn't expecting you to remove the pump just yet. My sob story here:

https://www.jaguarforums.com/forum/s...essure-265522/


Fingers crossed you've got everything sorted out. Find the missing NRV and hopefully the pump will now operate correctly. Worst case you can replace the whole pump assembly. I don't know if the valve is available separately if you can't find it. Could it have fallen into the tank? If so, you should be able to retrieve it with mechanical fingers.

Still curious about the purpose of the mystery relay.

 

Found more details online. It appears this is a Tyco brand version of a common Bosch relay. Here's one on eBay:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/234600819507

It has the same terminal markings as Bosch:



Bosch relays are very common in the aftermarket and were used as OEM in many European vehicles back in the 70s and 80s. Even though I keep calling it a Bosch relay, many manufacturers produce them. It's kinda like Kleenex becoming a common name for tissues, even though it's a brand name. Over in the UK, any vacuum cleaner is called a Hoover, even though that's also a specific brand name.

 

I say, check the crash immobilizer thingy. You might have to reset it by pressing the button on it. it’s up underneath the kick panel by the drivers side floorboards. I was messing around with my car and the front electronic module that’s down in that same area and when I went to start the car, it was crank crank crank, crank crank, but not start, which was very odd. I had removed that immobilizer to get to the front electronics module and it must’ve been triggered somehow. As I push the button on a car started right up.

 

Press the red button


Here’s a picture of it by the front electronic module with the kick panel removed

 

Any updates?

Seems you were hot on the trail. Wondering how it all panned out...

 

Yep worked on it today.
Ended up just ordering a new fuel pump assembly and installed that. Car now starts up however white smoke started coming out of the exhaust and it started to lose revs until it died... not ideal.
I was hoping the smoke was due to the car sitting a while but doesn't seem to be going away.
With regards to the dying revs I think I'll check the fuel filter.
I'm fearing a blown head gasket!
Any advice? Thanks!

 

Yeah. Quit scaring yourself. Don't be like Bob:



As far as the white smoke, how much run time has elapsed after replacing the fuel pump? If only a few minutes, without any actual drive time, the exhaust system may still be holding lots of moisture. Don't convince yourself a head gasket has mysteriously failed out of the blue.

For the RPM problem, the fuel filter is worth investigating. I'd also HIGHLY recommend measuring fuel pressure at the injector rail. You can use a scanner to see the value reported by the fuel pressure sensor. But even better would be to connect a mechanical pressure gauge. There should be test fitting on the injector rail. It looks like a tire valve stem. On my '02 V6, this test fitting is near the oil filler cap, but I don't know about the V8 version.

I mention checking the fuel pressure because there's no guarantee the new fuel pump is working properly. Getting new parts bad from stock? Sadly, that is fairly common nowadays. Or perhaps something didn't go back together just right during installation, and the pump can't do its job. On the electrical side of the equation, maybe the pump is not getting full power and can't keep up with demand. A pressure test should yield some answers.

How much fuel was present in the side of the tank where the pump is located? The tank is shaped like a saddle, with a venturi pump on the opposite side to keep the side full where the electric pump sits.

 

Update!
I checked out the fuel filter and all was fine. I ended up starting the car again just to see what happened and the revs seemed to hold and after idling for about 5 minutes the white smoke cleared up! Must have been a lot of condensation.
I took it for a spin and is driving well. Not really sure what the revs was about but have driven it for a couple of hours and no problems at all.
Thanks so much for your help! Very much appreciated.
I'm still not sure what was the deal is with the relay that's been wired in but when I work it out I'll let you know.