Hello gentlemen,
I'm solving problem with S-type 3,0V6 VIN N13840 (electro schema my 2005). The battery is discharged in two days.

The measurement revealed that after locking the power consumption drops to 0.75A, it holds for about 30 minutes and then decreases to 0.015A 4 rear power relays, but as the power falls and after a few seconds blinks front lights and wakes up again relay 0,75A... car will not enter sleep mode.

I found the bulletin S414-02 where it exactly solves my problem, but it is on a preface model with other electrical, where to install a cable with some resistance. But there is nowhere for facelift models http://www.jagrepair.com/images/TSB/...nt%20Drain.pdf

video 30 minutes after car locking. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Me5z...ature=youtu.be

Any tips for solving a similar problem?

 

Be careful not to get sidetracked. I read that bulletin, and it was saying the General Electric Control Module (GECM) was not entering sleep mode because a particular wire had high resistance and was making the GECM think battery voltage was dropping when it really wasn't. Reading between the lines, it appears if battery voltage drops too low for whatever reason, the GECM (and other modules?) may not properly go to sleep.

The bulletin then goes on to give specific directions of exactly where to test the voltage at the GECM for this particular condition. And if low voltage was found there (compared to the actual voltage at the battery), it gives a resistance test of this suspect wire, and then tells how to bypass it if faulty by running a new wire.

In your case, the problem could be as simple as the battery voltage actually dropping. You may not have a defective wire, but an actual battery problem. Or maybe another module has a problem and is not going to sleep. I would recommend working through this guide step by step:

https://www.jaguarforums.com/forum/s...-drain-123535/

See the PDF in post #1 for the actual test.

And if you have your heart set on running that test given in the service bulletin you found, the wiring has NOT changed for this one wire to the GECM. Wiring diagrams are here:

http://www.jagrepair.com/JaguarSType...OBDIIcodes.htm


Select the 2000 wiring diagram to see this suspect wire mentioned in the service bulletin. See figure 01.5 for the power supply to the GECM, which leads to fig 01.2 for the primary junction box.

On the diagram for your car, see the same wire and same contact numbers at figures 01.6 and 01.3.

 

Hello. Thanks for the reply.
My problem will not be the battery. Does not drop below 12.5V.
There is no problem with continuous battery drain.
I first looked for the problem as some permanent live device. But, the measurement showed after 30sec 0,7 - 0,79A permanently
This is basically the consumption of 4 relays R2, R4, R5, R11 (switch system power relay 1-4) in the luggage fuse box.

This value (0,7-0,79A) remains for 30 minutes, followed decrease to 0.015A, 4 relay swithed off.
After a second of standstill, the headlight and foglights flash (in video), the short-term current> 10A (light) and back to 0.7-0.79A, and the next 30min interval is running.
Next ligt flash... again and again until the battery is discharged

the same symptoms as in the newsletter S414-02 but the facelift doesn't have a GECM in the trunk

 

The GECM in the trunk (boot) is known as the RECM.

 

Good troubleshooting so far. I'm curious about one thing. How are you determining these four relays are staying energized and then switching off? I want to make sure we aren't inadvertently overlooking anything.



The GECM is outboard of the US driver's feet on all years. Remember, if you want to run through those detailed instructions listed in the bulletin, have at it. You'd only have to do the preliminary step of measuring the voltage at the input to the GECM. If that is good, there's no need to run through the rest of the steps.

 

Yes, RECM. my VIN N13840 is for the model 2005. all the time I thought I had model year 2004. Unfortunately, it does not solve my problem. It just made it harder, electronics is different. Distributed power to FEM and REM but symptoms of prefacelift model

 

They are really under power. 1) they are warm 2) they click when they are removed 3) measured by multimeter contacts
3) after disconect relay, current decreases by aproxx 0,2A

After 30min is heard switching on/off all 4 relays

 

I tried to gradually disconnect all fuses and relays in all fuse boxes.
A continuous current of 0.7A is due only to the 4 relays.that is their own consumption, and that's okay
waiting to sleep mode.
Waiting for communication termination, interval <40min. That's all exactly as it should be.
The car turns off. but at that moment a bug runs somewhere, the lights flash for a second, and the communication interval before falling asleep run again

 

Ah, gotcha, I was looking at the 2004 diagram. Sorry for any confusion. When I look at 2005, I see the GECM has been renamed at the Front Electronics Module (FEM). Curiously, the power supply to it still looks to be the same as the early models, including the connector and pin numbers.

Looking at figure 01.6 (of the 2005 diagram, my bad), either the FEM or the Rear Electronics Module (REM) can supply the ground to simultaneously energize those four naughty relays. Before digging too deep, have you checked in the spare tire well for water? These cars are notorious for rainwater getting into the trunk, and we've had several forum members experience problems with the REM acting up due to moisture.

If no evidence of water, I wonder if you can disable the FEM or REM separately to figure out which one is sending the erroneous command. Unfortunately, they are fed by the same fuse, so hopefully there's some other way to do it.

 

The trunk is dry. No oxidation on the connectors.

I studied the wiring diagrams. FEM control direct realy headlight and foglight. The bug is arround FEM. From TSB
TSB designs a new power line between the GECM and the fuse box on the other side. I compared the power lines on the FH7 and FH59 connectors. I think it's about replacing the cables outside the front bumper.
Especially the cable on the FH59-6 B + connector
There may be poor grounding, or an oxidized B + cable between FEM and fuse box. The FEM then has bad values when switching off and there is an electric gob.
Unfortunately, there is no electrical schematic of the XR8 22981 cable and I don't know exactly what to bridge. :-(. I'm looking for some possible logical connection with the new model 2005+

 

If I may, what exactly are your intentions? Are you looking to replicate the 2000 TSB repair/upgrade on your 2005? Unfortunately, we have to translate and extrapolate from Jaguar TSB-speak to common English.

The way I see it:

Within that certain VIN range for 2000, Jaguar identified a problem with the wire running from the primary junction box over to the GECM. Jaguar never said exactly what was wrong with that wire, other than it may have had high resistance. Perhaps it was undersized for the job, or it went through an intermediate connector (or two) prone to corrosion, who knows. Jaguar's fix was to disconnect that wire at both ends, leave it in place, and route a new XR8 22981 bypass cable in place of the original wire.

I can't find any specs for this mythical XR8 22981 cable, but I suspect it's just a length of wire (heavier than original) with the appropriate terminal on each end. Or maybe it's a big fat harness with multiple wires, I'm not really sure. But the basic gist is it replaces the suspect wire between the primary junction box and the GECM. This new harness gets routed under the dash, and taped to the firewall.

Now, fingers crossed, but if Jaguar was aware of a problem within that specific VIN range, that usually means any vehicles after that came from the factory with upgraded wiring. This portion of the wiring on your 2005 looks nearly identical. The GECM is now called the FEM, but even the connector and pin numbers are still the same.

This is where I'd suggest, in the kindest manner possible, to always keep an open mind while troubleshooting. Just because some certain 2000 models had the exact symptoms as your 2005, it doesn't mean the root cause was the same. But to be sure, you can easily run the diagnostic checks given in that service bulletin, as even the connector and pin numbers are the same. And remember, even if this mythical replacement cable was more than just a single wire, you don't care about any of the other wires for those tests. Knock out those tests real quick and if they pass, it's time to look elsewhere for a problem.

 

My theory is that many vehicles did not need to be repaired under warranty. The basic architecture of the electrical network is the same for freface and facelift models. I am now sure this is related to the wiring under the bumper. I had to repair the cables on my car. Wipers and fog lights and temperature sensor did not work. There were rotten cables. Now when I look at GEMC or FEM connections - conector FH59 . from TSB is discontinued by FH59-6 +12V . From the diagram it is a cable that is routed from GEMC (FEM) to primary junction box on FH7-3. Same on prefacelit and facelif. In the original line, this cable is just under the bumper in the harness and both fenders - a very problematic place. TSB solves this by pulling a new line inside the car. (my theory). However, it is possible that the cable has some resistance in it. Maybe?? Other connection between GEMC (FEM) is not logic. and are not even possible form preface or facelift. Unfortunately, nobody knows exactly what GEMC or FEM is watching, how data communication works. What values of voltage, current, resistances are decisive.
Logically, it is possible that there may be somewhere cable with broken (under the bumper) which during the shutdown procedure disconnect the rear relays, but at that moment the cable will be overloaded under the bumper. It has a very low capacity, the current increases sharply, and the GECM logic (FEM) activates the relay again. This is my theory, I will examine and measure this today. I will focus on terminals FH59-6 and FH7-3 to create an auxiliary bypass

some pic from repair my harness https://cs.jaguar-club.net/forum-tem...2#message37832

 

I think we've got a little misunderstanding here. The service bulletin about the possible wiring problem was only applicable to 2001 models. Jaguar would have updated the harness (heavier wire, better routing?) long before your 2005 was manufactured. It's not a question whether your car was ever repaired under warranty for that particular fault.

Also, are you saying this one suspect wire (from the primary junction box to FEM) is routed outside of the cabin and way out front by the bumper? I don't know all the details, but suspect it took a much more direct routing under the dash. Here it would be well protected and required less wire, too.

That's some ugly wiring damage you found. Lots of nasty green corrosion, too. Yuck! What is your history with this car? I had been thinking this battery drain was a new problem out of the blue. Now I'm wondering if this is something that has started only after some other repairs. A little background information for us would help.

 

See this Official Jaguar Technical Bulletin about the battery drain:
http://www.jagrepair.com/images/TSB/...%20Current.pdf

Mellow

 

It starts to sound like this 2005 car as affected by the "bad harness behind front bumper" issue. If so, this current problem may be the same issue in a different form.

 

Harness problems behind the front bumper have been known to have been caused by accident damage repairs that were good enough when they were done, but have suffered with the elements ever since.
Mellow

 

That was supposed to be "this 2005 car was affected" (or even is affected).

 

My car wasn't crashed. Cable problems are on a large number of Stypes
I disassembled the cables and in the harness are lot of connected point and many places where is the watter. So it's just a matter of time before every Stype gets elektro problobem
But... :-) i am still optimist. I made a bypass from FH59-6 to FH7-3 the function has not changed. resistance and power supply FH56-6 is OK
After disconnecting communication conector SCP from FEM the car falls asleep without any problems. after 30 min - 0,015A all 4 power relay is off. Problem is FEM or the controlled device
I will gradually disconnect the peripherals and watchtichng change but it is a rather lengthy process. It is always necessary to wait 30 minutes.
The last stage is the exchange FEM, but it must be programmed ... I am slowly beginning to know the unit outputs, pin numbers, connector colors without workshopmanual

 

The FEM unit was tested:
FEM + FH9 - sleep after 30min, 0,015A - OK
FEM + CA24 - sleep after 30min, 0,015A - OK
FEM + FH60 - sleep after 30min, 0,015A - OK
FEM + FH9 + CA24 - sleep after 30min, 0,015A - OK
FEM + FH9 + CA24 + FH60- sleep after 30min, 0,015A - OK
FEM + FH9 + FH60 + CA31 - does not sleep even after 40 minutes
FEM + FH9 + CA24 + CA31 - does not sleep even after 40 minutes
FEM + FH9 + CA31 - does not sleep even after 40 minutes 0,65A power relay ON
Problem is device on conetor CA31.
Time to deep dismantle interior

 

Thanks for the update. Sounds like you are hot on the trail.

Instead of dismantling the interior, is it possible to back out the terminals one at a time on connector CA31? Not familiar with this one, but most connectors have provisions to release the terminals, typically with a small screwdriver or similar tool. With any luck, it might save you a lot of trouble tearing apart the interior.