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If I am understanding your question correctly, what you are describing is actually a "bedplate" which strengthens the the engine and contains the lower half of the main bearings. This is not something for the typical weekend home mechanic to attempt to remove and replace:
WOW great catch S Type! You are correct, coming from someone that has replaced 3 "lower" oil pan gaskets. I would not attempt this at all with out the engine out of vehicle and on an engine stand.
OP what makes you think this "upper" oil pan gasket has failed? I nor I am sure any of the long haul S Type members here have everheard of this as an issue. Hopefully they will chime in.
You understood the question correctly. No doubt its a major complication to even attempt. There is also front cover and back cover of engine just to get to it.
Being resting place of crankshaft is pretty much enough to deter weekend mechanic. Thought to ask though. The part is fine, problem is that its not sealing anymore and appears to be leaking oil through the seal, which seems to be not a gasket seal, but some sort of sealant. In essence oil keeps getting on alternator. Small quantities, but enough to accumulate and drip on to spinning alternator. Which of course gets dispersed in the air under the hood and up it goes through my brand new cabin carbon filter...
I purchase it like this and alternator was visibly in oil. Hope was the lower gasket or valve cover gasket. These two are bone dry. Kind wish one of them was not.
Kind of wishful thinking. Naturally I am not in a rush to attempt anything like this. However, Once I am 100% sure, I will have to make a decision.
Slow oil drips on alternator is the reason driving me insane . Its not valve cover gasket, its not lower pan gasket. The only oilish part is actually 3-4 inches sealant line from upper oil pan and base.
Find and download my .pdf copy of the Jaguar Engine Course 168. It contains the V6 as well as the V8. The Training Guide 180 was the original but only had the V8.
I have the Guide 180 (3 ring binder paper) but I never had it converted to .pdf so the 168 is the only one available on the internet.
If it is an engine out job, I would be inclined to try sealing the leak from the outside. Remove alternator to allow access, thoroughly clean and degrease, apply your choice of sealant or JB weld to the outside of the joint (build it up a little to give you more chance of success). Allow to harden. Hope it works with all your might.
Interestingly enough, I didnt even think about it. The leak is small, never actually lands on garage floor. I even thought , that maybe I don't have negative pressure in my engine and fixing that would solve my issue. I will give it a go, currently selling my house, so kind of without garage for major projects. Would be good to seal it from outside at least till I decide what to do with this. I intend to keep the car forever, brand new engine is not out of question. I suspect swapping engine would be less effort.
Thanks!
I see you've got two threads going on the same basic subject. Best to keep it all as one or little details tend to get lost.
Doesn't seem very common to have a leak where you've described. It's not pressurized, such as if at a junction in the oil gallery. It's only going to be oil splashed against that seam from the inside. In theory, it should be easier for the oil to return to the pan via gravity versus trying to escape past a gasket, even if potentially not sealing 100%. What's pushing the oil past the weak spot?
So I gets to thinking. What if your PCV valve is clogged? Normal blow-by (past the piston rings) is vented via the PCV system. But if the valve is clogged, you may get a light pressure build-up inside the crankcase. This could force oil out via a spot with marginal sealing.
I mention this because I found the PCV valve clogged on my '02 V6. The location is different than your '03, but it's the same principle. I had an external oil leak I hadn't quite got around to tracking down. But after changing the PCV valve, the leak has stopped. Might be worth gambling $10 to see. I think your PCV valve is easy to access, in the open on a valve cover IIRC
If it is an engine out job, I would be inclined to try sealing the leak from the outside. Remove alternator to allow access, thoroughly clean and degrease, apply your choice of sealant or JB weld to the outside of the joint (build it up a little to give you more chance of success). Allow to harden. Hope it works with all your might.
Given a chance to spend your time and money, I'd recommend Permatex #84334 or similar:
We use a similar product in aviation, for minor fuel leaks on the wing tanks. We call them Tootsie Rolls. This stuff adheres like crazy to surfaces wet with fuel or oil. It barely sticks to dry surfaces, but somehow it works wet. Don't ask me how, but it is amazing how well it works. The oil or fuel seems to activate the bond.
I've repaired a hole punched in the metal fuel tank of my pickup. Lasted for years before i replaced the tank for other reasons. A coworker fixed a hole punched in the aluminium crankcase of his motorcycle. He filed it down smooth and painted it and called it good.
Thank you Karl,
Ordered the tootsie roll per your recommendation, already had same company spray sealant. All in It's very good advice regarding PCV system. It makes a lot of sense and often is the cause of strange small leaks. However , I already replaced the valve just for good measure when I was working on cleaning and sealing valve covers. It made no impact. About 2 weeks ago had a conversation with experienced mechanic, he also basically suggested the same. The idea was to test if engine has negative pressure. Basically taking oil cap and just placing hand over should tell you. Really could not tell for sure, cause plastic cover was not allowing to truly cover the hole.
However, managed to put plastic piece (like grocery bag plastic) to see if the air flow would pull invards. It did. There is negative pressure. Sure , not clear if it is enough and also not clear if it disappears during higher RPMs. So the engine crankcase ventilation system is still bit of suspect. Unfortunately I haven't dealt with it much and dont have clear understanding how it works and what may have failed. Even though the leak appears to be very localized. Should have some time this weekend to take alternator out and inspect, clean and seal with tootsie roll and the spray.
BTW love you signature and personal moto. Also lived in Oregon for a few years. My favorite state!
Just a quick update,
At least for now, till I sort out my garage situation I used Permatex 82099 Spray sealant and had 6 hour drive the following day. Problem solved for now, definite answer that it was indeed upper oil pan sealant leaking oil when engine running. No smell anymore whatsoever. I don't know how long such fix will last, but its good for know and certainly eliminating other guesses.
Unrelated quick question a few times, especially in the morning, sometimes car starts, but just doesn't hold RPMs, just dies. Starts again and dies. If I hold gas pedal it runs just fine. Kind of random, most of the morning no problem at all. Once it gets going, no problem, holds RPMs just fine. Engine runs smooth, no backfire, no vibrations, not a single error code. I vaguely remember a post somewhere, where disconnecting battery can cause some sort of computer issue? With all my maintenance battery has been disconnected a lot. Any ideas?
