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Cranks strong but still no start?.

 
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Old 06-15-2019, 05:41 PM
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Default Cranks strong but still no start?.

Hello Forum. My name is Stephen. Though Ive read dozens of your "Posts" already on this Forum this will be my first writing one, so please bare with me. Recently bought a 2005 X-Type Jaguar 3.0L AWD Sedan petro Auto Trans. Premium package w/ Navigation. On the second day. Eight start and stops around town. Totaling forty to fify miles everything was working normal. A\C was blowing ice cold etc. Though on ninth start the dash read ABS. DTC system fault. I can no longer remember the exact letters. Something to do with Traction Control ABS system. The A/C was now blowing out warm air. Upon entering the FWY i accelerated 7/8 pedal. causing vehicle to down shift back to first gear. Aggressively accelerating to near red lining before shifting to second , third when i finally released off the pedal at 80 mph. The car suddenly started stalling out , running, stalling, running, stalling, not sputtering as when running out of gas . . it was like a switch turning spark on then off then on. Off. On. Off around 6 times before it just stayed on till we reached our destination. A/C was still blowing warm. After that she still has not started. Removed the battery had it load tested. 12.8 volts. Trickle charged battery additional 24hrs. Before cleaning then tightening terminals. Cranks strong, plenty fresh gasoline. Tested all fuses. Sprayed. Starting. Fluid down the throat of throttle body. Air cleaner avoiding direct contact with the sensor. Still nothing. There is no fuse 92 on my model. The engine light "Check Engine" light stays on after initial warning systems 2 second on/off test mode. No codes to retrieve after disconnecting battery. For 48 hours. Checked Key FOB battery on remote. To find out there was no battery at all inside. I installed a brand new 2032 battery. Then with drivers door open i inserted key in to igition. Turned key to position 1. Then 2 back to 1 to 2 to 1 then 2. Four times within 3 seconds (i then heard the first chime.) Closed drivers door removed key from ignition and pressed buttons on remote within its 10 second window to complete the pairing sequence when after you should hear the second chime confirming connection. Yet never chimes a second time. We were only issued one Key /FOB remote when purchased. So i cant sync the blade portion of the key without a second working key.( If that could possibly be a reason for this behavior) Only dealership or auto locksmith can program that part. Now when i try to start engine a red light comes on while cranking engine just below transmission gear shifter. Note. I forgot to mention that there is one relay fuse missing where terminals are in engine compartment relay boxim going outside now to test the relays and chk if i can hear fuel pump hum i will also try jump starting battery i will report back with the results. Any help would be appreciated. Thank you in advance
 
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Old 06-15-2019, 07:32 PM
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When you turn key to "on" (not start) does the mil (little engine icon) remain lit or does it extinguish?
 
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Old 06-15-2019, 10:38 PM
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Hi. The CEL icon in dash. It remains on. I opened the gas cap for fuel tank. Wih my ear to the opening my wife turned the key 2 clicks and suddenly could here a distant humming sound for a few seconds before stopping the hum. We repeated shutting key off. Then wait 10 seconds before turning key 2 clicks and hearing humming once again. Four times we repeated hummed all four times..

The red light below gear shifter. Goes on during the initial system check then goes off. And stays off. Even while engine is cranking. Any suggestions
 
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Old 06-15-2019, 11:22 PM
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After replacing fob battery and completing programming sequence, even though you never got the completion chime, does it open/lock the doors, trunk unlock?

Biggest question I have in my mind is why you did the fob reprogramming?

Before battery were you just using the key to lock/unlock the doors?

Btw, you can't "sync" the blade portion anyway.

The illuminated mil with key on means key has been accepted by the PATS antennae in steering column, this is good. With key in on position, red PATS is constantly solid? Wait for 3 minutes and see if it begins to flash a code (like 1 blink then 3, repeat).

Here's my guess on the freeway incident. You accelerated hard and pushed r.p.m.'s over 3,000 (mine hit that at 80 as well). Car was attempting to go into "limp mode". It feels like a staccato on/off of the ignition. The "rest of the drive" you were probably below 3,000 r.p.m.'s, thus felt like it was normal.

Sounds like you have an OBD reader ("no codes after battery disconnection"). Is it wifi or bluetooth? If so download torque app. Turn key on, load app & look at fuel p.s.i. What is it? Turn key off and right back on, now what is p.s.i.? Your fuel pump is cycling per the noise you heard. The fuel pressure is measured at the fuel rail with the app. It should be or get to (after cycling) around 55 p.s.i. If not, I'd start with the easiest and less expensive replacement of your fuel filter.

Car takes fuel, air and spark. Start with basics and work up. I think your problems are not related, as strange as that sounds. The ABS/DSC (maybe cruise not available?) is usually a speed sensor rear = (reluctor ring) failure.
 

Last edited by Dell Gailey; 06-16-2019 at 12:34 AM.
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Old 06-16-2019, 07:29 AM
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Hello Dell. Im still learning my way around how this forumworks with recieving replys. I recieved part of your reply via email. Though i didnt get your last reply via email i didnt see it till i returned to the forum shortly ago. The FWY part of post reply sounds interesting probable. Your right. After that on off on off cutting out portion. I kept it below 3000 rpm remaing of trip. Though after engine was turned off it would not start again still 20 days later. Tomorrow after work i will see if red light blinks a pattern. After 3 minutes. My code reader doesnt have blutooth or. . .$90.00 at autozone orange. Simple plugs direct under dash . maybe its time i buy a useful code reader that has the features an x type Jaguar needs. Any recommendations on a effective code reader. Brand model. Also what is Limp mode. A safe mode. And why would it go to that mode at 80 plus mph causeit started cutting out at that speed ? Thanks again Dell for your experienced input.
 
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Old 06-16-2019, 02:00 PM
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A/C = check engine bay fuse box relay # R3, cabin fuse box #f5
Also are your interior lights working? I was working on mod lighting in my car and blew a fuse (can't recall # off top of my head) but it also affected my A/C (blew hot).

ABS/DSC check cabin fuse #f13
 

Last edited by Dell Gailey; 06-16-2019 at 02:08 PM.
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Old 06-18-2019, 04:37 AM
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Hi Dell. Stephen. I wrote answers to your fuse and R3 relay questions you asked me for. I wrote quite a bit yet when i sent it an error message came up saying. Your time expired hit the back space button. I did it. It did same thing i hit back space two times and i somehow lost everything i wrote you. So this will be short just in case again. Here goes

#f5 in engine bay is good. #R3 relay tested 124 ohms on the + and minus smaller terminals so i replaced it i cant really test if it did the trick with the A/C till i get her started. And for f13 in cabin fuse box. F13 says not used( blank) slot in fuse box on my yr model. 2005 X-Type 3.0L. Sedan U S. Gasoline. I also undid air cleaner at throttle body and sprayed Ether "Starting Fluid" directly in to the mouth of throttle body.. Nothing. No change. I read in a post here that theres a vacuum hose i should spray the Ether inside. Vacuum hose using red straw. Am i spraying in the wrong place for Jaguar. Are there any system faults in the jaguar programming that would only kill spark when triggered. Instead of. Killing both power to starter and killing spark also when a breach triggers the monitoring system which results in vehicle not being able to start its engine. Does Jaguar program that way crank only. Yet no start because no spark. To prevent certain fail safes from occurring if vehicle were to start. Am i asking it the right way? All my experience is so far. if the system breach results in vehicle must not be able to start vehicle then its normally done. At both the starter not powering on and no spark and or also no fuel as well. Not just no spark. Thanks for your help. Im wide open for suggestions. Also a digital meter says the battery. Is 12.8 volts without load. With load while engine is cranking. it drops down to 11.7volts. Does that sound satisfactory for battery power?
 
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Old 06-18-2019, 05:45 PM
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Ok, as I said the key in ignition and m.i.l. remaining lit, says the PATS accepts the "pellet" in the blade portion of your key to the antennae in the column to the ECM and back to the instrument cluster is good. So not "immobilized". If immobilized you normally get no crank at all. There is an immobilizer module in the passenger side (LHD) that is a safety feature that trips in an accident or rarely in being lifted onto a flatbed hauler or hitting a big pothole. Access is sticking your finger in the access port and pushing the small reset button on top. Doubt this is the problem as it was running, stopped at home, then no start. Worth a c.y.a. Check.

These cars are horribly twitchy on voltage. One minute they are fine, next kaput or throwing all kinds of electrical codes. The proper way to test them is not the AutoZone "load test", yup it's good. The best way is with a unit some places have (very expensive) that tests, loads, etc while in the car and takes 30-45 minutes to complete. No guidance for you here unfortunately. But you said it cranks fast and I assume for a decent time period without lugging down.

So steps are: is it getting fuel, thus my asking to check pressure (because it reads at the fuel rail). If not, filter, then if not the fuel pressure sensor, if not then fuel pump in order of likelihood.

Next, has fuel does it have spark. That is the next step we can explore.

The best Jaguar code reader that reads ALL codes, modules, accuates ABS, etc. is CarSoft. 2 for a Jag, I like the slightly more expensive one (not a big up cost). i930 & LR II
 
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Old 06-19-2019, 12:57 AM
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Default Still Cranks. . .But will not Start even with Starting Fluid.

Hi Dell. Stephen here. Thank you for again for responding back to me. Im trying to find the exact location where that immobilizer module reset button finger port access is. I know its a long shot. But i did have the auto club to her to my house on a flatbed. Also Thank you for setting me correct that Jaguar has no system triggers (whether security or MIL system etc.) That allows the starter to crank engine when the system is breached requiring no engine start-up. Instead we would hear nothing at all from the starter or engine when turning the key into ignition swich past the 3 position where key goes into ignition. That norrows it down alot.

My question is. . . normally when its a fuel problem anywhere along the fuel systems line. Wouldn't the jaguar ( or any petro fueled engine start or spudder trying to start when Ether aka Starting Fluid is sprayed into the mouth of a carburetor or throtte body where air filter is mounted over mouth. Thats been my experience. So since it doesnt change at all during its cycle rhythm. Would that or would that not leave feeling fairly confident that its not a fuel problem. Im running out of troubleshooting possibilities so i better get to testing fuel P.S.I to be 50 to 55 psi. The icarsoft units you suggested to diagnostics looks to be a smart tool to have around jaguars.look forward to hearing your answer using Ether. Could the sensor inside the airflow housing system trigger a fault that would suddenly kill spark via engine management computer if starting fluid suddenly. Drenched the sensor. I bypassed. That sensor completely the second time i used Starting Fluid.
 
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Old 06-19-2019, 03:41 AM
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The f13, etc. were engine compartment

the switch is located on the passenger side (LHD) front on the inside. Open the door and get down and look to your Right. it will be to the right of where the passenger would put his/her feet.

By sensor, I assume you're talking about the MAF/IAT on the left side (LHD) of the accordion tube from the airbox (filter). No, that wouldn't affect starting fluid sprayed towards the intake to try getting it to fire. Here's Thermo's (guru here) on how to try starter fluid start =" if you look on top of the engine, you will see a small vacuum line running from the top of the intake over to the brake booster. Push in on the hose, then while holding the black plastic ring down, lift up on the hose only. That should allow the hose to be removed. Spray a little bit of starter fluid down the hole and then put the hose back in (just need to slide the hose into the hole). Attempt to start the car. Did it fire now? "

That now leads to spark. The old fashioned way is pull a plug, position it to a ground source, crank and see if you have spark. Should be able to pull Coil #1 (behind passenger headlight, the only coil you can really get to without having to dismantle a bunch of stuff). See what that plug looks like.

Another check that I would do since we are dealing with a lack of spark condition is to do a hand over hand of the coil wiring. It may be possible that the wiring got damaged and the coils are no longer electrically connected. Check engine compartment fuse #f10 (ignition coils), #f17 (fuel injectors), #f19 [Engine control module (petrol only) Throttle motor relay (2.5L and 3.0L)], interior fuse box check fuse #f31 (Ignition switch), #f45 (Air conditioning ECU), #f49 (Air conditioning ECU, interior courtesy lights, roof console, in-car sensor),
 

Last edited by Dell Gailey; 06-19-2019 at 04:40 PM.
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Old 06-20-2019, 04:12 AM
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Hello Dell. Stephen here giving acknowledgement to your response i just now read. Thank you for "pin-pointing" where the (Immobilizer module finger access reset button)---on my 2005 Jaguar X-Type 3.0L Sedan US. Petro is located.) I will also check the (f#) fuses at their designated locations you suggested for me to test--then illuminate off the troubleshooting checklist of possible causes within the unexplained bizzar unusual behaviors of some Jaguar X-Types-----at my earliest opportunity. I will report back with my findings till we correct this no starting behavior. Good luck to all and goodnight. Thank you again. "Jaguar Forum Family."
 

Last edited by Stephenbringas62; 06-20-2019 at 06:19 AM.
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Old 06-20-2019, 04:59 PM
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I know we've established M.I.L. remains lit (good, not immobilized), PATS lights, then goes off (if waiting before cranking). Now, as you crank, does the PATS relight or blink? If so this is an indication, car is trying but computer sees improper communication in the can bus system somewhere.
 
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Old 06-20-2019, 06:08 PM
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Im haveing a starting problem om my 2011 XF It ran fine but I had to replace the plastic pipe behind the intake I replaced the one in the front and the water pump also Might as well its all exposed. Now after putting it together it wont start. Turns over fine no start I has to be a connector or vacum line I missed some place Just thought Id ask before I pull that intake back off. I have a car lift but I dont think it has the problem with the passenger LHD switch Help would be appreciated any right now Im in the dark New battery and have done all the things I know Oh and also the OBDII code finder has no power at the plug in';
 
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Old 06-20-2019, 07:29 PM
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@Duke, wrong forum, this is X Type (X400)
 
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Old 06-28-2019, 03:37 AM
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Default Which method is best for determining X-Type having spark?

Im trying to determine if my 2005 X-Type 3.0 sedan petro. Is generating spark through the coil paks. Im not sure if how i did it was correct. Therefore accurate. What i did was remove the one and only screw holding down the coil-pak above # 1 cylinder sparkplug. (Behind passenger headlight.) After seperating the coil-pak from the #1 sparkplug still screwed into engine block. I inserted another different sparkplug into the boot end of coil-pak. I first placed the spark end of plug next to one of the chrome engine bolts nearby to coils reach. I then instructed my wife to start vehicle. While holding coil with channel locks next to engine bolt and engine cranking strong i could not see any spark at all nor hear any rhythm change while cranking engine and/or coming from the hooked up coilpak with sparkplug engaged. Next i positioned same sparkplug/into coil-pak next to some burgandy painted sheet metal over radiator fan from left headlight to right headlight. I signalled wife to crank engine. Once cranking engine i could not see any spark. . .though every fourth to fifth count or so (one-two-three-four counts = 1 one thousand. 1) then. 2 one thousand. 2 and so on. There was a medium subtletie. To its rhythm crank though i didnt see. Any spark i heard this subtle change incrank rhythm. Like it was shorting out grounding out every time #1 cylinder fired. So my conclusion proves that current is reaching #1 cylinder coil/pak to sparkplug. Which results in wrong polarity glitch (my guess).. NOTE** THOUGH I SEPERATED #1 CYLINDER COIL-PAK. WITH #1 CYLINDER SPARKPLUG I NEVER REMOVED CURRENT SPARKPLUG FROM ENGINE BLOCK during that testing phase. The current plug i unscrewed from#1 cylinder was gapped at 50. Nowhere on vehicle could i find sparkplug gap for this vehicle anywhere. Which is odd for me. Thank you for any accurate help in these areas. Oh! If cam position or crank position sensors. Were at fault somehow would the EMS (engine management unit) cut off spark but still allow power to starter. To crank engine? Yes or No? Also when i took off vacuum tube from Thottle body intake to brake booster and sprayed Starting fluid inside the vacuum hole of intake manifold there was still no change at all in crank rythnm. Nothing. Im wide open for suggestions. Thanks.
 
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Old 06-28-2019, 01:13 PM
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You can check the input voltage at each coil. This way you make sure you have the proper amount to operate. Disconnect the six ignition coil connections. Turn the ignition key on. Check the voltage at Cyl #1 wire, Cyl #2 wire, Cyl #3 wire, Cyl #4 wire, Cyl #5 wire, Cyl #6 wire and to ground. It should be 10.5V or higher. If not, you need to find the cause of the voltage drop.
If ok, you can test the resistance of each coil. At the coil, measure the resistance across the primary windings. It should measure between 0.50 Ohms ans 1.00 Ohms.








#4 post =
https://www.jaguarforums.com/forum/x...roblems-42280/
 

Last edited by Dell Gailey; 06-28-2019 at 01:28 PM.
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Old 07-07-2019, 06:31 PM
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Default Fuel pump psi. 40

Hi Dell:
Was finally able to hook the Jaguar X-Type 3.0 petro up to a code reader and retrieve s9me data. P0000. P0646. THE fuel psi. Was 45 psi. I then turned the key off and back on again the fuel psi jumped to 58psi and then slowly started going down 56- 55 - 53 - 51psi. Is that normal behavior for fuel psi. Im going to find then test Crank position Sensor. Cause even if the fuel pump is failing its still not getting spark from ECM unit im thinking crank position sensor. Ive chked most every other possibility. Just wanted to update this thread. Thank you.
 
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Old 07-07-2019, 07:35 PM
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Never seen a p0000, there's a p1000 which is drive cycle(s) not completed which changes to p1111 when completed.

P0646 - Air Conditioning Clutch Relay Circuit Low


Possible causes

  • Faulty Air Conditioning Clutch Relay
  • Air Conditioning Clutch Relay harness is open or shorted
  • Air Conditioning Clutch Relay circuit poor electrical connection.
  • That MIGHT be an old code that if cleared will not return.
 
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Old 07-07-2019, 09:03 PM
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Hi Dell. Youre right. My bad. The code is P1000. Not P0000. And the P0464. Didn't come back up after i erased codes. Which is the best method to testing Crankshaft position sensor to determine if sensor is good or not. How about testing Cam Position Sensor to determine if good or not. Thank you. Dell. Hopefully these sensors will be what is needed for her to start again. Thanks again.
 
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Old 07-07-2019, 11:16 PM
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So p0646 or p0464 (fuel level sensor fault)?

As for procedures, just download the workshop manual in the stickies main page, think the easiest one is in technical tab (iirc).
 

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