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Have you got really long meter leads?
Wouldn't expect a normal meter would reach from the battery negative terminal to this fuse location in the passenger side A pillar.
You would normally be finding a bolt head somewhere under the dash to use as an earth.
So repeating the test, with your ignition on - you should have battery voltage (12V) on that fuse if relay R7 is energized by the ECM and conducting properly.
If you don't have 12v present on that fuse, then we need to check if relay R7 is being driven.
To do that you will need to locate connector JB220, the 14 pin plug in the back side of the passenger junction fuse box.(image inserted below)
You are going to want to insert some pins (as Thermo has suggested previously) into the backside of the connector so you can measure what is there while the plug is still in place.
The pins of specific interest on connector JB220 are:-
Pin 10 which has a Green/Red stripe wire into it. This pin is the 12 volt supply feed into relay R7's drive coil and should have 12 volts present. If not then check F19 on the power distribution fuse box.
Pin 9 which has a White/Green stripe wire into it. This is the relay control drive from the ECM, so if the relay is being told to turn on it should have near zero volts, if it not being told to turn on it will have nearly 12 volts.
If pin 10 has 12 volts present and pin 9 is near zero, then the relay R7 should be energized and be giving you a 12 volt output through F36 to the ECM for throttle motor activation.
If R7 is not being driven (pin 9 remains 12 volts) make sure you don't have a check engine light lit - clear codes to release Limp mode and try again.
Have you got really long meter leads?
Wouldn't expect a normal meter would reach from the battery negative terminal to this fuse location in the passenger side A pillar.
You would normally be finding a bolt head somewhere under the dash to use as an earth.
So repeating the test, with your ignition on - you should have battery voltage (12V) on that fuse if relay R7 is energized by the ECM and conducting properly.
If you don't have 12v present on that fuse, then we need to check if relay R7 is being driven.
To do that you will need to locate connector JB220, the 14 pin plug in the back side of the passenger junction fuse box.(image inserted below)
You are going to want to insert some pins (as Thermo has suggested previously) into the backside of the connector so you can measure what is there while the plug is still in place.
The pins of specific interest on connector JB220 are:-
Pin 10 which has a Green/Red stripe wire into it. This pin is the 12 volt supply feed into relay R7's drive coil and should have 12 volts present. If not then check F19 on the power distribution fuse box.
Pin 9 which has a White/Green stripe wire into it. This is the relay control drive from the ECM, so if the relay is being told to turn on it should have near zero volts, if it not being told to turn on it will have nearly 12 volts.
If pin 10 has 12 volts present and pin 9 is near zero, then the relay R7 should be energized and be giving you a 12 volt output through F36 to the ECM for throttle motor activation.
If R7 is not being driven (pin 9 remains 12 volts) make sure you don't have a check engine light lit - clear codes to release Limp mode and try again.
okay I will give this a try tm. LOL no my leds are not long its just my streeing is on the left side.
how many volts should F19 be? are both the fuses in good condititon? also do you know what the ohms reading should be for the fuel injectors? since I was getting the injector code i took aprt the whole thing and noticed that
injector 3 did not have left over fuel like the other ones did. you can tell in the difference in the pics i posted before.
F19 (power distribution box under hood) should have battery voltage on it, so 12 volts with ignition on.
It can be really confusing when you have fuse numbers repeated between "power distribution fuse box" and "passenger junction fuse box", hence I am being careful to state which fuse box to be checking for the relevant fuse or relay.
F19 (power distribution box under hood) should have battery voltage on it, so 12 volts with ignition on.
It can be really confusing when you have fuse numbers repeated between "power distribution fuse box" and "passenger junction fuse box", hence I am being careful to state which fuse box to be checking for the relevant fuse or relay.
If I get a chance I will measure mine tomorrow, but generally most injectors are between 10 to 18 ohms.
But if you think you #3 injector is suspect, measure a couple of the others as a reference. They should all measure the same (within 0.1 of an ohm of each other).
I did find a Youtube clip of someone measuring their S-Type injectors (V8) and getting 12.5 ohms.
They will be similar year of production, so probably a good guide as to what you might expect.
Help, yes, you should be checking from end to end of the wiring. Granted, by putting the car in neutral and revving the engine, you have proven those wires. How the car is acting right now is what happens when the car goes into fail safe. It will not allow the car to raise the engine RPM, but in neutral, it will if it is capable.
Have you got really long meter leads?
Wouldn't expect a normal meter would reach from the battery negative terminal to this fuse location in the passenger side A pillar.
You would normally be finding a bolt head somewhere under the dash to use as an earth.
So repeating the test, with your ignition on - you should have battery voltage (12V) on that fuse if relay R7 is energized by the ECM and conducting properly.
If you don't have 12v present on that fuse, then we need to check if relay R7 is being driven.
To do that you will need to locate connector JB220, the 14 pin plug in the back side of the passenger junction fuse box.(image inserted below)
You are going to want to insert some pins (as Thermo has suggested previously) into the backside of the connector so you can measure what is there while the plug is still in place.
The pins of specific interest on connector JB220 are:-
Pin 10 which has a Green/Red stripe wire into it. This pin is the 12 volt supply feed into relay R7's drive coil and should have 12 volts present. If not then check F19 on the power distribution fuse box.
Pin 9 which has a White/Green stripe wire into it. This is the relay control drive from the ECM, so if the relay is being told to turn on it should have near zero volts, if it not being told to turn on it will have nearly 12 volts.
If pin 10 has 12 volts present and pin 9 is near zero, then the relay R7 should be energized and be giving you a 12 volt output through F36 to the ECM for throttle motor activation.
If R7 is not being driven (pin 9 remains 12 volts) make sure you don't have a check engine light lit - clear codes to release Limp mode and try again.
@h2o2steam so i cant find the plug jb220 not sure which ine it is on mine the diagram idk is differnt since my streeing is on the left side.
Help, yes, you should be checking from end to end of the wiring. Granted, by putting the car in neutral and revving the engine, you have proven those wires. How the car is acting right now is what happens when the car goes into fail safe. It will not allow the car to raise the engine RPM, but in neutral, it will if it is capable.
@Thermo I can't open the ecm plug cause I don't have the 5 start torx bit. The stores near me also don't sell them 😭
OK,.....I did a resistance check this morning on my injectors and I got a reading of 13.4 ohms.
Starting to think I may have to go to start referring to an earlier year schematic for you and check the fuse numbers and connector pins for you to check an to take any test readings......I'll see what I can revise for you this evening and repost.
HELP, odds are, you are going to need to get on either Amazon or Ebay and look up 5 point torx bits. They wil have a kit of them and that will get you what you need. BUt, as I said before, because you can rev the engine while in Neutral, we know both of the wires are good. Otherwise, the throttle body would not open up to raise the RPMs.
HELP, odds are, you are going to need to get on either Amazon or Ebay and look up 5 point torx bits. They wil have a kit of them and that will get you what you need. BUt, as I said before, because you can rev the engine while in Neutral, we know both of the wires are good. Otherwise, the throttle body would not open up to raise the RPMs.
yeh that is true, I did a re-test on the f36 fuse @h2o2steam was saying before: in the passenger glove box ( Driver side in my case) and I am getting 0V, If I test the f19 in the engine bay I get 12.7V... also after cleaning the fuel injectors I didnt get any missfirs again, the readins I was getting on them where above 14.5 dont have clips so it was jumping around. So @h2o2steam@Thermo if not the wires then what could it be??
HELP, just to make sure we are getting you the correct drawings, in the driver's door jam, there is a build sticker, one of the blocks is the build date. What date is there? The other give away, your passenger bay fuse box, does it go 1 thru 50 or does it go like 40 thru 99? There are 2 different wiring diagrams for your year car, depending on whether it is an early or late (revised) car.
HELP, just to make sure we are getting you the correct drawings, in the driver's door jam, there is a build sticker, one of the blocks is the build date. What date is there? The other give away, your passenger bay fuse box, does it go 1 thru 50 or does it go like 40 thru 99? There are 2 different wiring diagrams for your year car, depending on whether it is an early or late (revised) car.
@Thermo not sure the numbers how it goes through but here his the picture of the sticker your talking about:
also I am now getting a p0123 and a p0223 code I did clear it and start the car 2 times and I am getting those same kne not the p1229. Not sure why the codes are jumping around. If I clear them one more time It is now gone p1229 is showing up.
Help, you have a 1st gen car (MFD Date earlier than 04/04). What is meant by that is your transfer case is the viscous coupled transfer case (some consider it the better one when it comes to AWD ability). So, when you look at drawings, you are going to want the set of drawings that are for a 2003 car. If you need a set, let me know and I will send you a set. That way you know exactly what you have and you are not getting mislead because someone is looking at the wrong set of drawings. This may help get us on track again because I think we have gone astray somewhere.
Let me get home so I can look at the drawings and then I am going to have a series of tests for you to try to start eliminating parts so we can prove stuff good and get a much smaller list of probable failed components.
The one check that you can do right now is to take the 4 wire plug going to the TPS and do 2 checks:
1) with the plug removed, look at all the terminals (metal connections) and make sure that they are a silver color and on the end that has the 2 plates that pinch the post, they should be fairly close to each other. If they are not silver in color, first hit with contact cleaner and if they still do not turn silver in color, then you will have to use a small pick or something and scratch the surface to get the silver color back.
2) starting at the plug that is attached to the wiring harness, I want you to bend the harness in a fairly sharp 90 degree bend (like rolling it over a pencil, but do not have the pencil in there). Watch the wiring and see if there is a point where 1 of the 4 wires no longer makes that sweeping curve, but makes more of a sharp bend (won't be a 90 degree bend, but it will look different than the other wires). Do that down the harness as far as you can without having to remove insulation/tape. The funny bend in the wire is telling me that the wire under the insulation has broken and it is not always making electrical connection. That would explain why the problem can come and go.
Help, you have a 1st gen car (MFD Date earlier than 04/04). What is meant by that is your transfer case is the viscous coupled transfer case (some consider it the better one when it comes to AWD ability). So, when you look at drawings, you are going to want the set of drawings that are for a 2003 car. If you need a set, let me know and I will send you a set. That way you know exactly what you have and you are not getting mislead because someone is looking at the wrong set of drawings. This may help get us on track again because I think we have gone astray somewhere.
Let me get home so I can look at the drawings and then I am going to have a series of tests for you to try to start eliminating parts so we can prove stuff good and get a much smaller list of probable failed components.
The one check that you can do right now is to take the 4 wire plug going to the TPS and do 2 checks:
1) with the plug removed, look at all the terminals (metal connections) and make sure that they are a silver color and on the end that has the 2 plates that pinch the post, they should be fairly close to each other. If they are not silver in color, first hit with contact cleaner and if they still do not turn silver in color, then you will have to use a small pick or something and scratch the surface to get the silver color back.
2) starting at the plug that is attached to the wiring harness, I want you to bend the harness in a fairly sharp 90 degree bend (like rolling it over a pencil, but do not have the pencil in there). Watch the wiring and see if there is a point where 1 of the 4 wires no longer makes that sweeping curve, but makes more of a sharp bend (won't be a 90 degree bend, but it will look different than the other wires). Do that down the harness as far as you can without having to remove insulation/tape. The funny bend in the wire is telling me that the wire under the insulation has broken and it is not always making electrical connection. That would explain why the problem can come and go.
ok I will do this test tm. Its late here now. And once your home send the other tests I need to do I will do all of them tomorrow. Also pls send me the drawings needed for the test.
I've located a 2003 schematic, the 2004 Schematic I was initially referring back to was subtly different.
Can I clarify something with you please......am I correct in thinking that at no point in all of your testing do you actually get any physical throttle butterfly movement?
Not even if you have cleared codes and initially start the car again?
OK, so let's clear codes and turn ignition on (but not starting car yet).
Can you check that you have 12V at and successfully through F36 (10A) of your power distribution fuse box (under the hood). (you can measure the voltage on each of the two pins through the tiny gaps in the top of the fuse).
If Yes, we can proceed with the additional steps below, if No then let us know as we will need to change course and have some other different checks to do.
Next, locate the 42 way black connector by your left shock tower....that is connector JB1 from the power distribution fuse box, the next two measurements are to that connector.
If you had 12 volts on F36, now check that you have 12V on the Red/White striped wire coming out of connector JB1 pin 38. (That is the relay controlled TB motor supply feeding through to the ECM)
If you have no 12 volts at that point, check what voltage is on JB1 pin 39 (Green/Red striped wire). Is it 12V or 0V? (If it is 12v that means the ECM is not calling the TB motor relay on for some reason).
Let's see what results you have of this test sequence so we can then assess what to do next.
