So yet again im back, but i have made up my mind, the Jeep wrangler unlimited sahara. I've got the options i want, everything that i want and don't need ready to special order it in.

But I have a deliema, what color, originally as my jag wa black with a black interior i wanted to get black, but the deep cherry red looks nice too.

Any suggestions, and after market mods, i won't be doing what exepat has done, as I think lowering a jeep wrangler is viewed very unfavourable plus i wouldnt do it do to the nature of my summer activites.

Oh and how everyone doing, I see we have some new members?

 

Disco, as for color, that is a personal thing. See what is available and go from there.

As for options, what are you needing the Jeep to do. If I remember right, you will just be doing some basic trail riding to get back to like a camp site or something of the like. For that, I would make sure you have either a limited slip in the rear of the truck or install a switchable locker. This will make a world of a difference when on the trails. You can install a locker on the front end, but for what you are doing, a single locker/LS unit in the rear will do what you need. After that, I would say to invest in a set of good all terrain (AT) tires. Again, when on the trail, this is going to make a nice change. If you can, go up a step or two in the tire size too. A little more ground clearance is always helpful. The downside to the AT tires is that you will notice that the tires will tend to not last as long due to the softer rubber compound. So, instead of getting say 40K miles out of a set of tires, you may only get 30-35K miles. But, that is the price you pay for certain capabilities.

After that, you can do off-road lights. But, if you do that, let me know as there are many different kinds of lights out there and this is one of those things that you will definitely find out that you will get what you pay for. I would also check into your local laws as they pertain to off-road lights. Some places are really **** about the lights, others are much more relaxed. Specifically, you need to know if the lights need to have covers over them or just keeping them off is good enough. I personally like the Hella Black Magics as the lens on them is black, but turns clear when the light is turned on. So, most cops will not think twice about the lights not having covers on them since the lenses are black. It would look really good with that deep Cherry red paint job too. But, you are looking at about $250 for a set of 55W general purpose lights.

Let me know what you are wanting the truck to do and I can help point you in the right direction. Granted, if you need a trail rig, let me know. For $5000, I will sell you my 97 Expy with a 4" lift and 37" mud tires. Most trails that you would even think about, this truck will handle in 2wd. I know a thing or two about building up trail rigs.

 

yea the sales guy talked about a anti-spin diff, its a 450 optiona nd his argument agaiinst it was if your on ice and one wheel is spinning fast then the other ( in a turn) the diff clutch with engage and lock cuasing you to loose traction and skid. I like it cuase it will be a extra feature that will help out int he bush, but we have yet to do final ordering so i can add it in.

Also deep cherry red, black or white ( tans nice too but they stopped making them due to pigment issues) i cant decide. i have yet to see a nice cherry red one with the matching hard top and black wheels.

wow thats fantastic glad i found some one on the forums to talk about to. The jeep guys are deffintaly not as nice as teh jag guys haha.

 

Hello, good to see you bacl . Red cherish doesn't sound nasty but black is my fave too . You can add external or bumper crane as well as side steps

 

Disco, with the limited slip, the salesman is right to a point. If you keep your foot in it and don't pay attention to the truck, yes, the limited slip unit will cause the back end to spin around on you in a heartbeat (TRUST ME!!!!!). But, this is what he is failing to mention. With the limited slip unit, if you are easy on the gas, you can feel the limited slip unit engage and disengage. When you feel this, you can maintain the gas and it will help you get through the slick spot easier. The big thing is driving sensibly when you know it is slick out. I know I shouldn't have to say it, but there are a lot of people out there these days that figure that the automotive manufacturers have all these "fancy systems" to keep the driver safe that they can do whatever they want and the car will protect them. While this is true to a point, the computer doesn't know the difference between you accelerating and you getting all the wheels broken loose on ice. Kinda like if you jam on the brakes really hard and suddenly, you can lock up all 4 wheels.

I say get the LS unit and call it good. Granted, the better system is the one that they put in the Rubicon. That has lockers in the front and rear. This is better in the fact that you don't have a clutch that engages, leading to a jarring in the drivetrain. The downside is that you have to engage it manually and when you don't, you have an open differential. It is not advisable to keep the lockers engaged at all times as this forces the wheels to spin at the same speed. When you make a turn, the wheels are all travelling in different arcs, which has them spinning at different speeds. In this case, something has to give. Normally it is the tires skipping across the pavement. But, some times, this can lead to driveline damage. So, the lockers should only be used when limited traction is occurring. The LS unit doesn't have this problem as it allows a certain amount of speed difference between the wheels before it will engage.

 

If you're still close to 20 years old, most will want to do a whole murdered-out black thing. Get black wheels, a lift kit, tint, tint the tails and buy some HIDs. That seems to be the formula for success these days with lifted trucks.

 

hahaha thats funny pat, that like everysecond vehicle her in alberta, and they do it the cheap garbage way, I hate the HIGS without the projector lens.

Just becuase everything is blacked out around here, im thinking of going white and tinting her limo maybe leave the tailights and doing some custom lighting solutions. Just to stay away from the pack.

And thermo, do you think if the antispin is engaged it will act like a locker and cuase the whole skipping problem?

 

Disco, when the limited slip is engaged, it only limits the wheel speed difference. It doesn't lock the wheels together. So, no, you will not get the skipping problem like with a locker. That is the pro to the limited slip. The con is that you don't get as much power transfer to the wheel that has the traction. I like the limited slip because it is always engaged and you don't have to think about it. You simply pay attention to the truck when you think you might be in a slippery condition, keep applying gas till you feel the truck shudder some (this is the limited slip engaging) and then you maintain your foot where it is on the gas pedal, if not back off just slightly. You follow this and the LS unit will save you so many times, it isn't funny.

 

Disco stu, we have a 2010 black Wrangler unlimited sport. Wife drives it. We are generally happy with it. We had a hell of a time with the stupid hardtop freedom panels leaking water right on top of the radio. It took a shitload of trips to the dealer and talking to the chrysler rep, threatening lemon law, all this hooplah and replacing all the seals. Finally it took the technical rep to replace the big seal at the leading edge of the big part of the hardtop to finally fix it. I have to say, don't expect a lot from the dealer network. There are some good guys in the shop but the writers and managers at the dealership we dealt with were a waste. Some other things, apparently all the diffs front and rear leak at some point. Our front one was leaking at the cover. Never had a diff fluid change before so it was fixed under warranty. the suspension knocks around a bit. Hopefully you are considering a 2012. The pentastar engine sounds much better (on paper) than the 3.8l we have. We are happy with the soft top and the four wheel drive works fabulous. We take it out on the beach in the summers and snow in the winters. Good luck, there are lots of options on them. We don't have a LSD but don't seem to need it here.

 

Blackx300VDP, if your differentials are leaking like you are saying, take a look at the vents for the differentials. It could be a bad seal job, but I also fought a leaking differential issue with my Ford and it turned out I had gotten a little bit of dirt in the vent line. This caused it to get plugged which lead to the differential building up pressure and forcing the fluid out the seal on the differential itself. I guess I have myself to blame on that one (something about tredging through 4 feet of water). If you crawl under the Jeep, you will see a rubber line coming off of the differential (normally on one of the axle tubes). This is the vent. Pull the rubber line off of the differential and attempt to blow some air through the line. It should flow pretty easy. If you encounter resistance, the line is plugged, replace the line. After that, you will need to pull the differential covers off, reseal, then add in the necessary fluid.

 

Thanks, I will look into that next time I have it on the lift. Sometimes I think the dealer would deal with that when it has a leak under warranty. Flat rate is such a great thing! (sarcasm)

 

I am definitlyl considering a 2012, there much nicer then what they were before(in my opionion). Wow i heard about the leaking hardtops but i hope they managed to get them fixed, alot of new jeep seems to be running great with leaks not occuring at all and if they do just a drip a day or something similar.

The main problem I have therm is I dont want to be screwing myself over if i get the lsd or if i get it shooting myself in the foot.As much hiking, off the beaten trail stuff i do, i have to come to the fact that it is primarily going to be taking me back and forth throught meteropolitan concrete jungles. Do you hink ill cuase an driveline damage on dry, city streets or does it even engage in that condition.

Also I read somewhere, you do a bit of nuclear engineering? Hows that im considering that as its much more interesting then medicine ( i like nuclear stuff haha).

The dealership is another issue, I asked them if i buy from them if they will take care of me and they said yes ( Which dealer isnt), but the pharmacist I work with says they've been dealing with them and there horrible, they cant figure out problems o they do tempeorary fixes.

I have decided on white and going with matte black acceseies, i will keep all posted.

Also Thermo, I have the choice of a 75 dollar option 3:73 gears over the 3;21, what do you think, I like the idea just becuase there will be a bit more ommph at lower speeds.

 

Disco, the limited slip unit disengages itself whenever the wheels are not moving at different speeds. I have had the LS unit in my truck for 130K miles (200,000 KM) and have had no issues with it. Its weakness is if you like to do burnouts. That will trash a limited slip unit in seconds. Don't sit and spin your wheels, you will be fine. The only other "limitation" I could say is that the limited slip unit can be temperamental if you let it run low on fluid. The fluid is what allows it to slip during normal conditions. You let the fluid run low and it will start engaging at the wrong times and you will feel the truck shudder some. Along those same lines, there is normally a special fluid you have to put in a limited slip unit. Most of the current gear lubes have this product already added, but some fluids you may need to add a 6 ounce bottle of "friction modifier" (name of the product). Not a big deal. The 6 ounce bottle is like $5. Besides, how often are you changing out the differential fluid? Money well spent for me.

As for gear ratio. Personally, I would recommend 3.55 if you can get it. The 3.21 is nice if you are doing nothing but highway driving and don't do a lot of in town. If you are mainly in town or plan on doing a significant amount of 4x4ing, then 3.73 is really nice. But, this is going to come at a cost of about 1-2 mpg. From what you are describing, the 3.73 gears are going to be the better option, just going to cost you a little more in gas.

As for dealing with the dealership, is there another Jeep dealership in the area. You may find that dealing with the one to get the Jeep and then driving a little further to go to the other dealership will be well worth your time. I did this with my Ford as the closer dealership just treated me like hell and the one that was 10 miles farther away treated me very well (granted, they wondered about me because I was bringing them Ford letters that they hadn't gotten yet, so, they were not quite sure who I was). So, I got taken care of really well there.

If you are trying to keep the cost of the new vehicle down, let me know. I know a few tricks. It will require a little more work on your part (mainly setting up the financing), but you can save yourself some money too (can normally get the truck for about 1.5% over invoice, no questions asked).

 

Disco, if you want to calculate the invoice price yourself, you can take the sheet on the side of any Wrangler and punch in the numbers there into what I am about to tell you and that will give you an idea of how much money the dealership is making.

If you look at the sticker, you will see a big sticker and then sometimes a small, sticker on the side (the dealership mark-up sticker). Do not worry about the mark-up sticker. Looking at the big sticker, you will notice that the left 2/3 of the sticker is the "MSRP" portion. Near the top, you will see a price for a bare bones truck. Take that number and multiply it by "0.974". Write that number off to the side somewhere. Now, look to the right and you will see where the manufacturer has added options to the truck. Look near the bottom of this list and you will see a "Option Total" line. Take this number and multiply it by "0.89". Write this number off to the side somewhere. Below the options, you will have a "Destination and Delivery" charge. Add this number (no modifications to this number) with the 2 that you calculated before. This is the invoice price.

Most financial guys will say that if you add $500 to this price, that should be the most that you pay for that vehicle. Keep in mind that if there are rebates and whatnot, then you need to factor those in to the price too (take the full value of the rebates and subtract from the price you calculated).

These numbers only work for the 2012 Jeep Wrangler. Other Jeep products are going to have slightly different ratios. You start looking at other brands and the numbers will really change.

Thought you might like these numbers to see what you are really paying for your new truck.

 

Wow, quite a bit of info but im Sure i can handle it. I called around all over alberta and it sounds like im getting a good deal, Im getting a few options at cost. The dealership is making a profit of 1500. Ill have to make a quick stop at the dealship to get the numbers but I can do that in real quick. Yea the only realy time im driving onthe highway int his town is well going to school and what not. Maybe i should stick the the 3:21 (no 3:55 option) the 3.73 are kinda nice for get up and go in town. I look more into that as well.

Thanks for explaing the diff again, now i know what the sales guy was saying when he said most vehicle are technically only 2wd cuase they dont have the lsd or lockers.

And its a jeep wrangler, I dont expect it to be a burn out champion nor will I EVER do that in it lol. Thats more for mustangs and camaro's.

Im looking at just over 36000, with gst,taxes and fees on top. No need to worry about fianacing here, its going to be a cash deal.

Ill keep everyone posted.

You did miss one question though, the one about nuclear engineering. I remeber you saying somewhere in a post about the "thermo" of you name. What do you think of the field, Im kinda starting to really enjoy the history,techniques and theory but I havnt even entered the field or studies. I could take engineering right now but it would be in a opposite direction of my studies. Any and all thought appreciated.

 

Disco, it is a field that is not going to go away any time soon and you can plan on big paychecks. Problem is, you will need to also have some smarts to you. It isn't necessarily an easy field. But, once you get into it and get a feel for what goes on, then it is easy from there. What you may want to consider is getting into more of say the mechanical side (ie, electrical, electronics, or mechanical engineering) and then get involved in the maintenance side of things. once you get hired on at a plant, then you can normally move over to the "Operations" side of the house which is where you are running the power plant. In the "Maintenance" side (where I am now, but I have done the Operations side too), you simply take care of a lot of the equipment, so, it doesn't require quite the experience and knowledge the Operations guys need. If you want to know more about this, let me know. If you are worried about the radiation exposure, I will put it to you this way: in my 22 years in the field, I have been exposed to roughly 900 millirem of radiation from a nuclear reactor. Sounds like a lot right. Now, lets put this into perspective. If you fly from the east coast to the west coast (round trip), you are exposing yourself to roughly 75 millirem. Every time the doctor takes an x-ray, that is roughly 10-15 millirem. If you smoke a pack of cigarettes a day for a year, you are exposing yourself to, wait for it, somewhere in the neighborhood of 1,000-3,000 millirem every year. radiation is all around you (TV's, computer monitors, in ground water, sun, etc). The big difference is I know how much I am being exposed to, most people don't. So, is it this big nasty monster. Not really unless you are careless with it, then it becomes really ugly really fast. You just have to accept the fact that you are working around things that are very powerful, contains lots of energy, and that you need to give it the due respect. I work near 500,000 VAC lines. One wrong step within even 20 feet is enough to make it a very bad day.

 

Yea being a chemistry student you learn that everything gives off radiation, its impossible not too. Its all a matter of how much exposure you being exposed to. The only radiationt hat I really fear is Alpha particles Inside m, but im not dumb enough to ingest anything or go looking for it in abandoned mine. 3000, thats insane, i never would have though that much could be absorbed by the human body from a cigratte.

Im not massively worried about pay, my current career path will make me cash but since i've been working in my choosen feild for almost a year it doesnt seem as intersting as i thought it would be, and engineering is very difficullt but was just curious. How long did it take you to reach the level your at, and do you recommend public sector or private, any real pros-cons to each. I was always fascinated with nuclear theory/marvels every since I read about chernobyl.

Hey, if you drink enough red wine no need to worry about radiation right haha. I mean isnt that what the russians banking on with thier subs and plants.

Every profession has its dangers, its how you handle those danger personally I think counts in the end.

 

Disco, well, I didn't go the private sector. I enlisted in the US Navy and did my training there. So, for the most part, I got spoon fed (more like shovel fed) the information as I completed essentially 2 bachelor degrees in 18 months (went from not knowing anything in either electronics or nuclear power plant operation to being able to fix radar sets and troubleshoot just about anything and running a nuclear power plant solo). So, I had a little bit of a "plug one ear with your finger and just ramrod the information into your head" learning program. It was intense and I watched many people fail out (I was part of the 33% that made it out the end). I then had 20 more years to perfect my operations side, learn tons more about electronics (became one of the "go to guys" for fixing stuff) and then finally moved into the management aspect. So, by the time I got into the public sector, I had pretty much learned all I was going to about nuclear power as it pertains to the theory part.

Since switching over to the public sector, I can't say that I have really learned anything startling about how electronics and the reactor operates. Granted, the civilian side of things does do things differently, so, that was a little bit of a change to get used to. But, all the principles become the same. But, I can see where if you are not familiar with the nuclear world, it can be quite the shock. There are rules for everything in the nuclear world. So, if you hate rules, then nuclear is not for you. I spend about half of my day weasling my way through the rules, double checking everything I need to, and in general doing the administrative stuff. The other half is spent doing the actual work. IT can be frustrating if you like to "get your hands dirty" as you don't spend enough time with tools in your hands.

Granted, with your knowledge of chemistry, there is a special group that does nothing but handle the chemicals for the plant and maintain the chemistry of the plant. easy job, but you are only doing just that, chemistry.

When it comes to working in a plant, I think you will find it interesting for the first little bit, but like you are experiencing now, it becomes just another day in the office. Nothing really new is happening. The only "change" I see is once a year (normally), we go into a shutdown and we do serious overhauls of the equipment. During this time, there are lots of changes that are happening and things are pretty dynamic and it can be interesting to see how things change and what all it takes to make it happen.

As for russian subs, having seen what the classified information is on their subs is, thank goodness I was not on one of those. They have a "different" view of what it means to be in the military. In short, you are just another piece of "equipment". You can read into that what you want.

 

yes haha, I;ve red and looked into the whole cold war conspiracu theories and the ay both west and east operated , its part of a candain curriculum up here in high school.
Yea, not to mention the many catastropic failures they had due to poor engineering, planning and just basic knowledge of what they were dealing with and the presicion required for anything was non-existent. The whole nation was a equipment during the many dictoators is passed though.

I didnt know chemist had a real hand in nuclear, im assuiming you would need a special certification/education just to understand the background theory before you were allowed to handle cooling agents and what not. Maybe thats more my career path.

For me, its just another day at the office with different drug addicts showing up or whack jobs looking for drugs. But it gives you soemthing to laugh about later.

I appreciate you insight into both my vehicle choice and the other questions. Its the same routine for any science degree in pre-professional degree they basically tell you that everything you learned in high school is lie, such as molecular bonding theory and orbital thery. Out of the 86 students that entered with me in calculus there were 56 by the second week and only 13 in the final examination. Orgainc wasnt as bad but first year students sufffer a massive wake up call ( including my self) but you had to get two degrees, I can only imagine the nightmare that would have been for work load.

Would you say the the US has a better nuclear division, excluding the weapons aspect and focusing primarily on the civilian?

 

Disco, when it comes to nuclear, the industry as a whole shares information so, we are sharing information with those in Russia, China, France, etc. So, to say that one area is better than another is kinda a mute point because we are all using pretty much the same rules. I can't speak for other countries, but atleast in the US they limit the amount of time that you can work, so, that is somewhat of a blessing. But, at the same time, it can be a curse if you are someone that wants the overtime.

As for a chemist in nuclear power, it isn't as much studying as you think. Really you are told to maintain certain parameters in pre-set bands. I could do that job without a degree. Your big problem will be going up against people that have the experience already. But, some facilities are looking to get new people in due to a large exit that is going to be happening here in the near future because of all the people that got into the program back in the 70's coming up on retirement age. So, you stand a chance.

As for my schooling, fortunately, I didn't have to work a job to get money. All I had to focus on was schooling. But, for most of it, I was spending about 80 hours a week doing school stuff. That tends to get old after awhile. Granted, it was cool operating a nuclear submarine in the Idaho desert. Gotta love military intelligence.