Not lucky enough to have an actual dealership in my small city I rely on a Jaguar Certified technician at my local euro specialty repair shop. We've really gotten along owner/me/tech, everybody but then again it's mostly been servicing and not repairs. We did have a bit of a disagreement when I took the car 90 miles to a dealer to get a prop shaft done when my local tech swore it was the TC. Anyways, I'm in for oil change and general check up of belts, hoses, fluids and the owner hands me my bill and says " Your rear diff fluid is a bit dark. We should schedule you in to change it." Great I said. I've got Wild Bill's TC fluid changing apparatus and we can do the TC at the same time. "Nope" says he. Can't do it as he doesn't have the fluid and to do it he has to remove the TC to drain it, etc. "It's sealed for life" he says "No need to replace the fluid".

"It's the same spec fluid as the rear diff" says I. "Order two liters and we'll have enough". "Nope" he says. Can't do anything to the TC except what Jag says he can. "Its sealed for life!!!" he says.

Isn't the rear diff sealed for life as well, I inquired. Well yes but Jag will let them suck that out and refill it. He won't do the Wild Bill change as he claims it is against what Jag will let him do, and it would jeopardize his certification with them. He also can't invoice me unless he can warranty the work so, no Jag unauthorized work can he do.

I've got no other Jag certified place to turn. He has the fluid. I want up on his hoist. Is he making a valid argument? I feel stoopid...

 

Greetings,

I read this and presume you are not in the U.S.? I ask because I am an independant who was Jaguar certified, but am considered persona non grata after leaving the dealer network many years ago. So when you say he is not a Dealer, but worries about jeopardizing the status of his certification, I don't follow the logic. Are there Factory Authorized techs at independant repair shops where you live?

It will never do you any good to convince the guy to perform work he doesn't recommend or feel comfortable doing. That's his call, and if you want the TC fluid changed you can find another option.

One way to look at is is liability law: he knows, as do you, that the transfer cases are fragile. So he complies with your request, the transfer case coincidentally explodes six months later, and he can't sit in court and point to a specific factory procedure that backs him up. A customer could wave the Jaguar flag and claim his procedure as unauthorized, and a jury of laypersons finds him libel for the damages.

You're both correct in your views, just find somebody else who agrees with you and it's all good.

I assume the prop shaft fixed your car? I'm going to look for old posts, but if you can restate the symptoms briefly I'd appreciate it.

 

lol, Andy you are so right, and to all of ya'll....
When you as a tech get blamed for stuff you dont do or werent even around.." you replaced my tires, and brakes, and on the way home my car overheated" "What did you do to my car" "Everytime I bring it in here, something else breaks, I think you guys break stuff on purpose to have more of my money".
Everybody wants to jump on the ***********, band wagon, do you know that every day someone complains that WE DID or DIDN'T DO something and want something for free. I have friends that either work at or own independants, and they know this too, they just dont get hit with it nearly as much cause a independant owner knows when he's about to get screwed and either doesnt do it or flat out tells the customer "nicely" to KMA Do you know what its like to get blamed and your work given away for free cause someone has no *****, oh well we're a dealer and its the cost of doing business...yep and no wonder are rates are higher...someone painted a BIG target on the front of the building...
And this country wonders why we're in such turmoil......low morals, screw your neighbor, sue who you can, rip companies and people off if you can....
Ok Im done now, I think Ill go calm down in rush hour traffic now and go to work


yes I know, its a 2 way street

 

it IS a two way street, so let me just point out the other side a little more.
I am NOT one to talk about "***********s". I think Dealerships are vital, and I will do all I can to support them. I buy my parts at the dealership, instead of online. If it's work I don't want to do, I tend to go to the delaership first. Part of that is about peace of mind, because I 'assume' that the Jag certified tech is smarter than me.... and I 'Assume' that Jag will stand behind their work.

So when I take a car in to have a minor seal replaced because I can't get the half-shafts seperated, and the car comes back to me with a torn CV boot and grease everywhere, as well as a noise in the brakes on the same corner (it was the dust shield for the ball-joint grinding into my brand new EBC rotor) but the Tech calims he is not responsible and I must have done it myself,.... that's BS.
So I insisted they fix it. But I also told them that to offset that, I would pay them to do some other procedures.... including a 4-wheel alignment on the car, for which they charged me $149. And they screwed that up so badly that the first time I drove my car in the snow (shortly thereafter) I nearly sold the car it was so bad. a $69 alignment at Les Schwab fixed it up right.

Dealerships need to take a little more care in what they do. They charge a premium rate for their service, so they need to provide a premium service. This means (to me) using the proper tools (the Jag tools, where called for). Following the proper procedures (no shortcuts) and thouroghness of the project.

I see it the same way I see my healthcare professionals. My dealership should be invested in the maintenance of my vehicle. That's what will bring me back to buy another. They should offer regular maintenance items to me. They should warn me of services that are coming up. They should tell me when they find something that's not right.
My delaership has done none of this for me. Yes, they have provided me with a cheesy Chrysler as a 'loaner' when they've had my car. Yes, they've offered free towing (which I've never used). Those are great... but I've lost a lot of faith in my dealership, and the next closest one is 6 hrs away.

 

AND I AGREE WITH YOU WHOLE HEARTEDLY, THATS BS, AND THAT CRAP PISSES ME OFF, AS DOES WHAT IM LOOKING AT RIGHT NOW. IM DOING A STATE INSP, AFTER ANOTHER TECH WORKED ON A 2000 S TYPE. THING TAKES FOREVER....TO GO INTO GEAR, OBVIOUSLY OUT OF ADJUSTMENT OR (IT NEEDS A CABLE, I LOOKED). HE JUST PUT 2 CATALYTIC CONVERTORS ON CUSTOMER PAY FOR INNEFFICENCY CODES, AND WAS ON THE FLOOR PEELING OFF THE DECALS WITH A KNIFE. I ASKED WHY WAS HE DOING THAT.."CAUSE THEYLL COMPLAIN ABOUT A BURNING SMELL IFI DONT" TO WHICH i REPLIED, "GO DRIVE IT DOWN THE FREEWAY TO NOT ONLY BURN OFF THE DECALS BUT THE MANUFACTURING OIL ON THE PIPES TOO WHICH REALLY SMELL" OK THIS SETS UP THE NEXT ISSUE I HAVE...IM DOINGTHE STATE AND NOT ONLY NOTICE THE CAR SMOKING ALOT UNDER THE HOOD, BUT OIL BURNING. OPEN THE HOOD AND OIL IS STEADLY DRIPPING FROM THE CAM COVER GASKETS LEAKING ONTO THE EXHAUST, BUT BRAKE PADS ALMOST METAL TO METAL IN FRT, BRAKE FLUID IS NASTY AND LOOKS ORIGINAL FOR 9YRS. AND A FEW OTHER ISSUES TOO. NOW THIS GUY COMPLAIN ABOUT NOT MAKING HJOURS AND HE SENDS CUSOTMER OUT NOT ONLY NEEDING MORE WORK, BUT WITH CONDITIONS NOT ONLY SAFTY, BUT THE POTENTIAL TO COST ALOT MORE LATER, LIKE A TRANS..I KNOW WECAN ALL TELL STORIES ALL DAY ON BOTH SIDES, I WAS JUST POINTING OUT EARLIER, THAT MANY TIMES WE HAVE TO DO THINGS A CERTAIN WAY OR WONT DO THEM CAUSE SOMEONE WILL PULL A I WANT IT FREE CARD, HELL I WISH I COULD HAVE USED THAT ONE ON MY DOCTOR 11 YRS AGO WHEN HE MISS DIAGNOSED MY CANCER 3 TIMES...DID I GET ANYTHING FREE OR SUE...NOPE

 

well.. don't THAT put it all into perspective for me?

Dood.
sorry to hear about that.
While not cancer by any means, I have two wrists that are unuseable and will eventually end-up having the bones fused surgically because an X-ray tech missed them, and then the Dr argued with me when I told him they were broken again. And I paid full price for that service too....

I think it's just a case of we all could use a lot more honesty in our lives.

 

Thanks guys. My original point may have been unclear. Yes, this is an independent shop that has techs that are "certified" by Jag, BMW, Porsche, etc. They are my only local choice (within 90 miles) as my "regular" shop won't look at my Kitty except to mount and balance tires, check brakes, etc. They do get all my kids cars (upwards of 5 safe but high mileage, low value units) to work on. Momma's Jeep is under warranty so it gets serviced at the DEALERSHIP.

I'm a strong believer in having a long-lasting, loving relationship with my mechanic. X-mas cookies, the quarterly coffee & doughnut run, etc. and I would take my Jag to the DEALERSHIP for service/repair if I had one. I haven't and never will refer to them as "***********s". Dealerships have definite value in having all the up-to-date access to parts, diagnostics and procedures.

My point was, if sucking out the rear diff fluid and refilling it IS an authorized procedure by Jaguar why wouldn't the TC fluid change be the same. If it's true that he can only perform repairs as specified by Jaguar, on Jaguars, then I'll give him his due and look for an alternative. I'm just too old, fat and lazy to lay under a vehicle anymore and was asking them to do the TC fluid switch at the same time they are doing the rear differential.

JagtechOhio - you betcha. I live in the frozen north so there was no way I could have lived with the whine. New prop shaft and she's so quite I can hear the tire noise. Besides a CV boot rip, leaking vac lines and the prop shaft my X-type has been good as platinum and were just getting to 100000 km.

 

ok here show them this, this is jags proceedure and tool straight from gtr


Transfer Case Draining and Filling

Special Service Tools


Flange holding tool
205-053



Flange remover/installer
204-068A



Flange remover/installer boss
204-266



Flange remover/installer
204-295



Seal extractor
308-375



Slide hammer
100-012



Slide hammer adapter
100-012-01

1. WARNING: Do not work on or under a vehicle supported only by a jack. Always support the vehicle on safety stands.

Raise and support the vehicle.


2. NOTE:
Mark the position of the driveshaft in relation to the drive pinion flange.

Remove two opposing driveshaft universal joint retaining bolts.



3. Loosen the remaining driveshaft universal joint retaining bolts.



4. Detach the engine roll restrictor.
Remove the engine roll restrictor retaining bolt.





5. Detach the driveshaft from drive pinion flange.



6. Using suitable tie straps, secure the outer casing of the driveshaft universal joint.



7. CAUTION: Make sure that the driveshaft does not hang on the center universal joint. Failure to follow this instruction may result in damage to the driveshaft.

Using suitable tie straps, secure the driveshaft to the subframe.



8. Mark the position of the retaining nut in relation to the companion flange and the companion flange in relation to the output shaft.



9. Install the special tool to the companion flange.



10. NOTE:
Make a note of the complete number of turns required to remove the companion flange retaining nut.

NOTE:
Make a note of the number of degrees past the last complete rotation required to remove the companion flange retaining nut.

Remove the companion flange retaining nut.



11. Install the special tool to the output shaft.



12. Install special tool 204-266 to special tool 204-068A.



13. Install the special tool to the companion flange.
Install the six retaining bolts.





14. Remove the companion flange.
Rotate the special tool counter-clockwise.





15. Using the special tools remove the pinion oil seal.



16. NOTE:
Make sure the vehicle is completely level when draining the transfer case.

Allow the oil to fully drain into a suitable container.


17. Using the special tool 204-264 fully seat the new oil seal.



18. Install the companion flange to the output shaft.
Lubricate the companion flange splines with SAE 75W140 lubricant.


Install the companion flange making sure that the flange and output shaft marks are aligned.


Install special tool 204-295 to the companion flange.


Install special tool 204-266.


Using the special tools install the companion flange to the output shaft by 10mm.





19. Remove the special tools.


20. Using a suitable solvent/cleaner, remove all traces of oil from the transfer case rear output flange and exposed threads of the output shaft.


21. Apply sealant (C2S 12099) to the area of transfer case rear output flange where securing nut seats.



22. Install the special tool to the companion flange.



23. Apply sealant (C2S 12099) to the mating face of the transfer case rear output flange securing nut.



24. Install the companion flange securing nut.
Start the nut at the noted number of degrees before the start of the first full rotation.


Tighten to the noted full number of rotations.


Make sure that the original marks between the companion flange, securing nut and output shaft are aligned.





25. CAUTION: Make sure that the driveshaft does not hang on the center universal joint. Failure to follow this instruction may result in damage to the driveshaft.

Cut and remove the tie straps securing the outer casing of the driveshaft universal joint.



26. Cut and remove the tie straps securing the outer casing of the driveshaft universal joint.



27. Connect the driveshaft to the transfer case.



28. Attach the driveshaft universal joint.
Attach the driveshaft universal joint.


Install new driveshaft retaining bolts.


Tighten to 44 Nm.





29. Attach the engine roll restrictor.
Tighten to 80 Nm.





30. WARNING: Do not work on or under a vehicle supported only by a jack. Always support the vehicle on safety stands.

NOTE:
The lower lip of the sill must be 540mm from the floor.

Raise and support the left hand side of the vehicle.
Remove the vehicle from the lift.


Raise the vehicle using two jacks.





31. Fill the transfer case with 400ml of oil.
Tighten the filler plug to 20Nm.


OH AND YOU DONT NEED ALL THE "SPECIAL" TOOLS EITHER

 

Thanks Brutal. I have to ask. #31 says Fill with 400ml of oil. So even this procedure doesn't get the original 600ml out of there?

I'd bring you some doughnuts if you weren't so far away...

 

Dealers are just like any other service or industry in life - some are great, some really suck. Bobby Rahal Jag here in Pittsburgh treats me better than I could hope for, and I didn't even buy the car there. But I will next time.

I have run into independent mechanics who sometimes refuse to do certain types of work. Most probably due to past experience or just trying to protect themselves in an ultra-competitive industry, where a little guy has very little margin for error. One of my mechanics that I have known for years refused to install a lift kit on one of my Jeeps, for example.

 

A couple of comments before this thread slips into obscurity:

Mohrd, thanks for responding about the propshaft noise. The reason I asked is that I don't work on many X Types, and asked about the whine (see "Whoopie whistle") when I first heard it. I don't misdiagnose problems, so I referred the customer to the dealer to confirm the propshaft as the cause. Maybe I'll get the job in the end, maybe they will. Your independant wasn't doing you much of a favor by taking a guess, and a bad one at that.

ChrisX, it's always good to hear positive reviews, and your experience speaks to the issue of quality control that Brutal touched on. Your technician deserves some doughnuts too: but I have one customer from Pittsburgh who was happy to bring his car three hours' west when he couldn't get good service from anyone in town.

Whether a repair facility is a franchised dealer, or an independant, or a Quicky lube, it boils down to the supervision that is given in the shop. Otherwise you experience inconsistant results, as you are left to rely on the integrity and ability of each individual who works in it.

So BRUTAL'S customer's are well served, and other owners might leave his dealership with a stick in their craw and a smear against Jaguar in general. That was the exact environment I worked in, and it's good to hear that people in his shop respond when somebody blows a whistle.

What's the best compromise between quality and productivity? Don't ask me: I have fired everybody who repeatedly dropped the ball in my shop, so I work alone. That makes for excellent quality control, and customers who are sometimes dissatisfied when they can't get immediate service.

BRUTAL: you brought up another guild to which we both have membership cards. I don't know what kind of cancer you had, but I doubt it was in your foot: it sounds like you can still kick *** just fine. Tip o' the cap.

 

Mohrd, youre welcome, beef jerky would be fine, and it could be mailed
and no you cant get all the lube out, but getting most out a new in is still a far cry from doing nothing at all...
and geez, none of the pics pasted..............

 

Excellent post ^