have you ever seen an intermittent no start like this? seems odd, maybe a wire i will have to check. thanks.



interesting

 

Hi ****,

You don't mention whether the no-start is a no-crank condition or a cranks-but-won't start condition, which is critical diagnostic information.

Of the DTCs shown on your Zeus, the B1676 Battery Voltage Out of Range, B2103 PATS Antenna Not Connected and Instrument Pack U1900 CAN Receive Error/Missing Message seem the most likely to be associated with an intermittent no-start. Of course, plenty of causes of an intermittent no-start do not trigger any DTCs. Given the B1676 code, one place to start would be to measure the voltage sag at the battery while cranking the starter. I am not sure about the X-Type engine management system, but on many Jaguars, if the voltage sags below about 10.5 volts while cranking, the ECM will not trigger the ignition to fire.

You can look up the definitions and possible causes of Powertrain DTCs in the manuals at the first two links below, and the Electrical section of the Workshop Manual at the third link includes many Body (B-prefix), Chassis (C-prefix) and Network (U-prefix) DTCs:

Jaguar X-Type DTC Summaries 2001.5

Jaguar X-Type DTC Summaries 2002

Jaguar X-Type Workshop Manual - Electrical

I am also attaching two versions of the DTC Summaries that include P, B, C and U codes, and a Service Training manual that includes a good description of the X-Type start routine.

Cheers,

Don

 

****, ok, I have started looking at the error codes that you posted and this is getting a little bit of clarity. From the sounds of things, you may have a few things going on. So, lets go back to the circuit that it takes to start the car. The key transmits a signal to the antenna wrapped around the ignition which then sends a signal through the instrument cluster on to the CAN bus. This signal then goes to the gear shifter and on through the radio/climate controls to the tranny computer, and then finally to the ECU. The ECU gets a separate signal from the ignition switch (12 VDC) saying that the ignition is in the START position.

Unfortunately, your B2103 error code is saying that the antenna around the ignition switch is not working. So, you may want to open up the steering column to see if you can spot anything wrong with a little ring that will encircle the ignition switch. I think you can ignore the B1205 error code as that is telling you that your TRIP button on the end of your turn signal stalk is damaged and is not sending the correct signals to the instrument cluster. Now, I mention this as you may want to look in the general area where the turn signal stalk is mounted as this may have taken a hard hit when getting in/out of the car and this could have possibly pinched the antenna wire. Finally you have the U1900 code. This is the one that is going to drive us nuts. U1900 is a generic code saying that it is sensing a problem with the CAN bus data wires being damaged (possibly shorted to the battery voltage, opened, or shorted to ground). Then, this same code can apply to the climate control, the radio, the ABS system and/or the dynamic stability control computer. Now, we can kinda rule out a few things as your car is going to have either an ABS module or the DSC module. So, do you have a button on the center console that says "DSC" on it? Either way, the module is located in the engine bay, on the brake block that all the hydraulic lines run through. So, I think we can kinda rule that out as being part of the problem.

So, this leaves the interior of the car as the trouble spot. To help eliminate potentials, has there been any work done on the interior of the car recently in the area of the radio, gear shifter, and/or the steering column? If so, I would start in that area to see if there is any damaged wires there. The next question is whether you footwells for the front seats remain dry when it rains. It is possible that you could have a leaking windshield and this is causing water to get into a computer (in this case, most likely the tranny computer), which can raise all sorts of hell. If the footwells are dry, then we can get rid of this potential. If you are thinking that you have a CAN bus issue, the most likely source for a problem is the radio. You would need to remove the radio and check the connections on the back to ensure everything is seated properly.

I know I have thrown a lot of potentials at you, but hopefully you can answer the questions and we can eliminate some spots so you are not tearing apart the whole interior. One last thing hit me, do you raise and lower the steering column each time you get in and out of the car? If so, then I would be looking and concentrating on the steering column. I have seen problems with the wiring in the steering column from people who constantly raise/lower the steering wheel. It flexes the wiring and can cause it to develop wear spots and lead to all sorts of craziness.

 

thank you i will read this over, it is a no crank no start. customer said it will start here and there. i dont think its a voltage drop issue of the battery cables but i will check.

 

i think i will start with the antenna, i didnt really notice it until i looked at the codes again, i think i will throw the scope on there and see what i find when i cycle the key, at this point in time im thinking either instrument cluster or antenna, leaning towards the antenna as i feel that would be a more plausible intermittent than the cluster, but we shall see. thank you for your advice, i will check back soon

 

Since it's a no-crank condition, I agree with Thermo that the PATS antenna is a prime suspect.

Cheers,

Don

 

what is “PATS”

 

PATS - Passive Auto Theft System. Aka, the circuit you are working on. It prevents someone from just sticking a screw driver in the ignition and forcing it over. You need an electronic code along with the movement of the ignition switch to cause the car to start.

 

i ended up having 12v on one of the encoded signal lines (orange wire) unplugged from the key ring. this doesnt seem right. this is leading me to believe that the cluster is shorted. does the key ring talk to the cluster in can? what protocol is it using? thanks

 

****, it doesn't go over the CAN bus. the antenna receives a signal from the fob when it gets an electrical signal put on the blade of the key. This is then transmitted to the instrument cluster. At that point, it gets put on the CAN bus to be sent to the ECU.

 

there are 2 encoded signal wire a power feed and a ground.

im guessing one signal is an input and the other an output? any specifics on voltages these signals use? just want to make sure im making right call on condemning the cluster. 12v on a signal unplugged seems shorted to me? or am i thinking of this wrong?

 

Hi ****,

If you don't have the Electrical Guide for your car, you can download it at jagrepair.com.

I can't remember the year of your car - it's helpful if you visit your User Control Panel and click on Edit Signature. Add the year, model and engine details to your signature and save. This way the info will show up in all of your posts so others can provide the most appropriate replies.

Cheers,

Don

 

Going back to one of ****'s earlier posts it seems he has a 2002 X-Type.

 

The point of adding the info to our signatures is to save others the time and effort of searching through previous posts every time the OP asks a new question.

Cheers,

Don

 

that’s lovely and all but i dont even own a jaguar. i just fix them

 

Then it would help to include the year, model and engine in all your posts related to each car you are posting about.

Remember that we are all volunteer hobbyists here and simply don't have time to look back through your thread every time you post to be reminded of the vehicle details before responding to your latest post. We're very happy to help, but you can do us the courtesy of not making it more difficult than it needs to be.

Thanks,

Don

 

yes, my apologies, i will include the exact specifications in the tittle next time for ease.

2002 xtype 2.5