Jaguar Overheating
#1
10-05-2009, 01:37 PM
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Jaguar Overheating
This is my first post and I would appreciate some help. I have changed the theromostat on my 2002 Jaguar X type, but I am unsure if I installed it wrong. I bought the thermostat at the dealer and asked if there was a certain direction to install it, he said no. My check engine light is on, and Im waiting to purchase a OBD II to see what it tells me, I have read the previous threads on the website and the autozone's in my area do not offer free check engine light services. I already changed the timing belt, it helped the car run better. I had to change the transmission oil that is sealed for life. When the car over heats the transmission malfunction light comes on, and it over spills through the overfill plug on top of the transmission pan. Normally it will over heat at about 40 minutes on the freeway, then I pull over and wait about 1/2 hour, drive alittle more untill I get to my destination. I am using Castrol Import Multi Vehicle Fluid, I read on another post that it met the Jaguar specifications. EM ect ect. I asked the Parts guy at the Jaguar dealership what antifreeze he would recommend and was told any DEX COOL. Also if anyone knows hot to bleed air out of a 2002 Jaguar Xtype water reservoir this would help me, I also want to make sure that is not over heating the car. Im' reading cooling and thermostat are the simple issues to attack overheating in the Jaguars. Any comments smart *** or helpful are appreciated.
Thank You !
Thank You !
#3
10-05-2009, 06:38 PM
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cleo, when the car overheats, is it while on the highway or is it when you are in slow moving/stop-n-go traffic? If it is on the highway, then that is leaning towards a bad waterpump, air bubble in the coolant lines (this engine needs to be burped a certain way), or a bad thermostat. If the thermostat was in backwards, you normally don't get any cooling, so, odds are, you are fine there. If you had an air bubble in the coolant system, I would think you would be overheating much sooner than 40 minutes into a drive. If the water pump is going, it is possible to get the conditions you are seeing.
Now, if you are getting the overheating once you get into stop-n-go/slow traffic, then I would be leaning towards a bad fan control module. These are known for going bad and will cause overheating conditions.
As for getting air out of the coolant expansion tank (what you call the water reservoir), there is no need. The tank is designed to pull the air out of the water, yet maintain a positive pressure on the coolant system during normal driving temps. The system should be at the same pressure as the outside of the car when the motor is cold. You can do this by simply removing the cap for a second when the motor is cold. That's it. If you need to bleed the air out of the coolant channels in the engine, then let me know and I will step you though that. Not hard, but does require squeezing hot rubber hoses.
Now, if you are getting the overheating once you get into stop-n-go/slow traffic, then I would be leaning towards a bad fan control module. These are known for going bad and will cause overheating conditions.
As for getting air out of the coolant expansion tank (what you call the water reservoir), there is no need. The tank is designed to pull the air out of the water, yet maintain a positive pressure on the coolant system during normal driving temps. The system should be at the same pressure as the outside of the car when the motor is cold. You can do this by simply removing the cap for a second when the motor is cold. That's it. If you need to bleed the air out of the coolant channels in the engine, then let me know and I will step you though that. Not hard, but does require squeezing hot rubber hoses.
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10-06-2009, 10:22 AM
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10-06-2009, 10:32 AM
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cleo, when the car overheats, is it while on the highway or is it when you are in slow moving/stop-n-go traffic? If it is on the highway, then that is leaning towards a bad waterpump, air bubble in the coolant lines (this engine needs to be burped a certain way), or a bad thermostat. If the thermostat was in backwards, you normally don't get any cooling, so, odds are, you are fine there. If you had an air bubble in the coolant system, I would think you would be overheating much sooner than 40 minutes into a drive. If the water pump is going, it is possible to get the conditions you are seeing.
Now, if you are getting the overheating once you get into stop-n-go/slow traffic, then I would be leaning towards a bad fan control module. These are known for going bad and will cause overheating conditions.
As for getting air out of the coolant expansion tank (what you call the water reservoir), there is no need. The tank is designed to pull the air out of the water, yet maintain a positive pressure on the coolant system during normal driving temps. The system should be at the same pressure as the outside of the car when the motor is cold. You can do this by simply removing the cap for a second when the motor is cold. That's it. If you need to bleed the air out of the coolant channels in the engine, then let me know and I will step you though that. Not hard, but does require squeezing hot rubber hoses.
Now, if you are getting the overheating once you get into stop-n-go/slow traffic, then I would be leaning towards a bad fan control module. These are known for going bad and will cause overheating conditions.
As for getting air out of the coolant expansion tank (what you call the water reservoir), there is no need. The tank is designed to pull the air out of the water, yet maintain a positive pressure on the coolant system during normal driving temps. The system should be at the same pressure as the outside of the car when the motor is cold. You can do this by simply removing the cap for a second when the motor is cold. That's it. If you need to bleed the air out of the coolant channels in the engine, then let me know and I will step you though that. Not hard, but does require squeezing hot rubber hoses.
My car is overheating on the highway, on stop and go traffic it runs ok.
I do need to bleed air out of the coolant channels in the engine, squeeaing hot rubber hoses not a problem.
The hoses to the coolant expansion tank are hot, is that normal ?
I just ordered the water pump and gasket, here we go.
Thank you for responding to my thread, I really appreciate it.
Last edited by cleotheo; 10-06-2009 at 02:16 PM.
#10
10-06-2009, 03:35 PM
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Cleo, yes, the coolant hoses to the expansion tank will get hot. There is a certain amount of coolant that is cycled through the bottle to help remove any entrained air.
Before you replace the water pump/gasket, I would recommend doing a coolant system flush. This will help ensure there is nothing fouling your radiator. Corrosion products can build up over time. But, do this before replacing the water pump as the chemicals in the flush can be hard on a pump about to fail. So, you will not be out anything and it will help ensure your new pump only sees engine coolant/water.
As for bleeding air out of the motor, you will need to get the system tight (ie, replacing the water pump), then you will fill the coolant system via the overflow bottle to the MAX FILL line with a 50/50 mix of coolant and water (if anything go a little heavier on the coolant than water, say 55/45 mix or even up to 60/40). Now, start the engine and run it at about 2000 RPM until the cooling fan kicks on. Turn off the engine and let sit for 2 minutes. During this 2 minutes, loosely install 2 clamps, one on the heater core inlet hose, 1 on the heater core outlet hose. Start the engine and rev back up to 2000 RPM. With the engine up at 2000 RPM, pinch shut the heater core return line, then the heater core inlet line. Run the engine for an additional 2 minutes. At this point, turn off the engine, remove the items used to pinch shut the 2 hoses for the heater core and let the engine cool. Once cool, top off the overflow bottle to the upper end of the allowable band.
Wish you luck. Unfortunately, the JTIS CD doesn't give really good guidance on which way the thermostat goes in. The picture shows that when you remove the hose off of the thermostat housing, there are 3 posts that hold the end of the thermostat in place. If all that you see is something like a dome, then the thermostat is in backwards.
Before you replace the water pump/gasket, I would recommend doing a coolant system flush. This will help ensure there is nothing fouling your radiator. Corrosion products can build up over time. But, do this before replacing the water pump as the chemicals in the flush can be hard on a pump about to fail. So, you will not be out anything and it will help ensure your new pump only sees engine coolant/water.
As for bleeding air out of the motor, you will need to get the system tight (ie, replacing the water pump), then you will fill the coolant system via the overflow bottle to the MAX FILL line with a 50/50 mix of coolant and water (if anything go a little heavier on the coolant than water, say 55/45 mix or even up to 60/40). Now, start the engine and run it at about 2000 RPM until the cooling fan kicks on. Turn off the engine and let sit for 2 minutes. During this 2 minutes, loosely install 2 clamps, one on the heater core inlet hose, 1 on the heater core outlet hose. Start the engine and rev back up to 2000 RPM. With the engine up at 2000 RPM, pinch shut the heater core return line, then the heater core inlet line. Run the engine for an additional 2 minutes. At this point, turn off the engine, remove the items used to pinch shut the 2 hoses for the heater core and let the engine cool. Once cool, top off the overflow bottle to the upper end of the allowable band.
Wish you luck. Unfortunately, the JTIS CD doesn't give really good guidance on which way the thermostat goes in. The picture shows that when you remove the hose off of the thermostat housing, there are 3 posts that hold the end of the thermostat in place. If all that you see is something like a dome, then the thermostat is in backwards.
#11
10-06-2009, 10:32 PM
how can you tell if the car is running hot? on the x-type the temp gauge does not move from the centre position until after the car is already too hot.
If this is happening (gauge moves up to the red) then you need to stop driving the car...
try another thermostat, and verify the fans are working. There are secret hidden codes that only the dealer can read about how the fans are working.
there are no special methods to bleed the coolant system - it will expell all the air out the overflow bottle.. just fill the system with the heater on and engine running and it there wont be any air.
If this is happening (gauge moves up to the red) then you need to stop driving the car...
try another thermostat, and verify the fans are working. There are secret hidden codes that only the dealer can read about how the fans are working.
there are no special methods to bleed the coolant system - it will expell all the air out the overflow bottle.. just fill the system with the heater on and engine running and it there wont be any air.
#12
10-07-2009, 12:03 AM
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Cleo, yes, the coolant hoses to the expansion tank will get hot. There is a certain amount of coolant that is cycled through the bottle to help remove any entrained air.
Before you replace the water pump/gasket, I would recommend doing a coolant system flush. This will help ensure there is nothing fouling your radiator. Corrosion products can build up over time. But, do this before replacing the water pump as the chemicals in the flush can be hard on a pump about to fail. So, you will not be out anything and it will help ensure your new pump only sees engine coolant/water.
As for bleeding air out of the motor, you will need to get the system tight (ie, replacing the water pump), then you will fill the coolant system via the overflow bottle to the MAX FILL line with a 50/50 mix of coolant and water (if anything go a little heavier on the coolant than water, say 55/45 mix or even up to 60/40). Now, start the engine and run it at about 2000 RPM until the cooling fan kicks on. Turn off the engine and let sit for 2 minutes. During this 2 minutes, loosely install 2 clamps, one on the heater core inlet hose, 1 on the heater core outlet hose. Start the engine and rev back up to 2000 RPM. With the engine up at 2000 RPM, pinch shut the heater core return line, then the heater core inlet line. Run the engine for an additional 2 minutes. At this point, turn off the engine, remove the items used to pinch shut the 2 hoses for the heater core and let the engine cool. Once cool, top off the overflow bottle to the upper end of the allowable band.
Wish you luck. Unfortunately, the JTIS CD doesn't give really good guidance on which way the thermostat goes in. The picture shows that when you remove the hose off of the thermostat housing, there are 3 posts that hold the end of the thermostat in place. If all that you see is something like a dome, then the thermostat is in backwards.
Before you replace the water pump/gasket, I would recommend doing a coolant system flush. This will help ensure there is nothing fouling your radiator. Corrosion products can build up over time. But, do this before replacing the water pump as the chemicals in the flush can be hard on a pump about to fail. So, you will not be out anything and it will help ensure your new pump only sees engine coolant/water.
As for bleeding air out of the motor, you will need to get the system tight (ie, replacing the water pump), then you will fill the coolant system via the overflow bottle to the MAX FILL line with a 50/50 mix of coolant and water (if anything go a little heavier on the coolant than water, say 55/45 mix or even up to 60/40). Now, start the engine and run it at about 2000 RPM until the cooling fan kicks on. Turn off the engine and let sit for 2 minutes. During this 2 minutes, loosely install 2 clamps, one on the heater core inlet hose, 1 on the heater core outlet hose. Start the engine and rev back up to 2000 RPM. With the engine up at 2000 RPM, pinch shut the heater core return line, then the heater core inlet line. Run the engine for an additional 2 minutes. At this point, turn off the engine, remove the items used to pinch shut the 2 hoses for the heater core and let the engine cool. Once cool, top off the overflow bottle to the upper end of the allowable band.
Wish you luck. Unfortunately, the JTIS CD doesn't give really good guidance on which way the thermostat goes in. The picture shows that when you remove the hose off of the thermostat housing, there are 3 posts that hold the end of the thermostat in place. If all that you see is something like a dome, then the thermostat is in backwards.
#13
10-07-2009, 12:13 AM
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I know the car is overheating by feel, then just when I know it's over heating the transmission malfuntion light comes on, so I pull over and wait. The temp guage never goes to red, it always stays at the center point. The car runs better with no traffic and when the temperature is cold outside.
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10-07-2009, 12:38 AM
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how can you tell if the car is running hot? on the x-type the temp gauge does not move from the centre position until after the car is already too hot.
If this is happening (gauge moves up to the red) then you need to stop driving the car...
try another thermostat, and verify the fans are working. There are secret hidden codes that only the dealer can read about how the fans are working.
there are no special methods to bleed the coolant system - it will expell all the air out the overflow bottle.. just fill the system with the heater on and engine running and it there wont be any air.
If this is happening (gauge moves up to the red) then you need to stop driving the car...
try another thermostat, and verify the fans are working. There are secret hidden codes that only the dealer can read about how the fans are working.
there are no special methods to bleed the coolant system - it will expell all the air out the overflow bottle.. just fill the system with the heater on and engine running and it there wont be any air.
Last edited by cleotheo; 10-07-2009 at 12:42 AM.
#15
10-07-2009, 06:31 AM
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Cleo, at highway speeds, the fans don't need to run. There is more air flowing through the grille than the fans can provide. So, in your case, you can rule out the fans. Anything above about 30 mph that is a true statement with.
As for the overheating condition, did it start/get worse after you did the thermostat replacement? If so, then it is very likely your source for the problem. Wish I could put my hands on the car, it would make this much easier to figure out.
As for the overheating condition, did it start/get worse after you did the thermostat replacement? If so, then it is very likely your source for the problem. Wish I could put my hands on the car, it would make this much easier to figure out.
#16
10-07-2009, 08:30 AM
I think you are barking up the wrong tree cleotreo, Temperature is not very reliably measured "by feel". From a technical standpoint, temperature is one of the easier basic thing to accurately measure with simple instruments. Tape a roast thermometer to a rad hose..... ? wrap in some insulation.... presto, a decent temp gauge.
Sounds like your transmission is having issues not your engine
Sounds like your transmission is having issues not your engine
Last edited by jimmy; 10-07-2009 at 08:32 AM.
#17
10-08-2009, 01:20 PM
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Cleo, at highway speeds, the fans don't need to run. There is more air flowing through the grille than the fans can provide. So, in your case, you can rule out the fans. Anything above about 30 mph that is a true statement with.
As for the overheating condition, did it start/get worse after you did the thermostat replacement? If so, then it is very likely your source for the problem. Wish I could put my hands on the car, it would make this much easier to figure out.
As for the overheating condition, did it start/get worse after you did the thermostat replacement? If so, then it is very likely your source for the problem. Wish I could put my hands on the car, it would make this much easier to figure out.
I flushed the system and changed the water pump and water pump belt.
I took out the thermostat and took pictures, can you tell me from what you see if it's backwards or not ? https://www.jaguarforums.com/forum/a...hp?albumid=802
Im' running the car without a thermostat untill Im' sure it's ok. ( Sorry if I offend anyone.)
The first thing I noticed is the top hose is not burning hot with the new changes.
It's driving alittle forced so I will adjust the water pump belt.
Last edited by cleotheo; 10-08-2009 at 01:54 PM.
#18
10-08-2009, 01:30 PM
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I think you are barking up the wrong tree cleotreo, Temperature is not very reliably measured "by feel". From a technical standpoint, temperature is one of the easier basic thing to accurately measure with simple instruments. Tape a roast thermometer to a rad hose..... ? wrap in some insulation.... presto, a decent temp gauge.
Sounds like your transmission is having issues not your engine
Sounds like your transmission is having issues not your engine
I agree this was my initial assesment since when I run the car on the highway, it feels (ha Ha) likes it's overheating and transmission oil flows out of the top overflow knob on the transmission pan. I have been making changes gradually and anything I do the car runs better. There is a hissing sound coming from the engine, I was reading it may be blown gasket. If this is the case I will have to learn how to do it. (No Choice)
I will test your hypothesis and let you know what temperature it reads on the hoses, though by touch it has gone down by 50%.
After I changed the water pump and removed thermostat. Im' waiting on Thermo to see what he says before I re install the thermostat.
Thank you for your comments.
Changed transmission oil (Castrol Multi Vehicle Import)
Changed Drive Belt
Thermostat removed
Changed water pump belt
Oil Change
Dex cool ANTIFREEZE
FLUSHED
Added a second transmission cooler to existing. (I know what your thinking there is your problem, no it was spilling transmission oil before the second transmission cooler)
Last edited by cleotheo; 10-08-2009 at 02:00 PM.
#19
10-08-2009, 07:54 PM
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Cleo, when looking at the thermostat on the motor, you will notice that one side has the large center piece and the other end has the 3 posts. THe 3 post end should be sticking out of the motor when you assemble things. It looks like from picture 3 in your forum that you had it installed correctly. So, if you have a new water pump installed, you should be good now. If your overheating problem returns, then you know that you have a bad thermostat. You can confirm the proper operation of the thermostat by putting it in a pot of water on the stove with a thermometer in the water. As the temp of the water rises to about 190-195F, you should see the thermostat move and open up. if it don't move and you get up around 200-205, then your thermostat is frozen shut. Get a new thermostat. This all assumes you are installing a factory recommended temp range thermostat.
#20
10-08-2009, 09:33 PM
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Cleo, when looking at the thermostat on the motor, you will notice that one side has the large center piece and the other end has the 3 posts. THe 3 post end should be sticking out of the motor when you assemble things. It looks like from picture 3 in your forum that you had it installed correctly. So, if you have a new water pump installed, you should be good now. If your overheating problem returns, then you know that you have a bad thermostat. You can confirm the proper operation of the thermostat by putting it in a pot of water on the stove with a thermometer in the water. As the temp of the water rises to about 190-195F, you should see the thermostat move and open up. if it don't move and you get up around 200-205, then your thermostat is frozen shut. Get a new thermostat. This all assumes you are installing a factory recommended temp range thermostat.
Jimmy is being quiet.
Last edited by cleotheo; 10-09-2009 at 10:53 AM.