Jaguar x type 2003 2.5 awd will not crank or engage starter
#21
A programmed key can go bad if it is subjected to a magnetic field.
The one thing that has not been mentioned is a hard reset. Disconnect the battery and joint the two leads together for a couple of minutes, then reconnect and it resets all modules.
Also the Transmission range sensor (Inhibitor switch) could be at fault. Check fuse 92 (10amp) comes live at position 2.
You could also try moving the gear between P and N while turning to position 3.
Roger
The one thing that has not been mentioned is a hard reset. Disconnect the battery and joint the two leads together for a couple of minutes, then reconnect and it resets all modules.
Also the Transmission range sensor (Inhibitor switch) could be at fault. Check fuse 92 (10amp) comes live at position 2.
You could also try moving the gear between P and N while turning to position 3.
Roger
#22
Found another possible solution =
should be able to close up the car and use the key in the door cylinder to lock and arm the security system, then unlock and disarm the security system also with the key. At that point, the car should start.
One other thing to try, is to lower the driver window, close up all else, then lock and arm the system with the key. Then pull up on the drive lock button and open the door. That should trip the security system with a 15 second escalating warning sound. Within that 15 seconds, jump in the car and turn the ignition on and off three times and on the fourth time turn all the way to start. That should also reset the security system and allow starting.
should be able to close up the car and use the key in the door cylinder to lock and arm the security system, then unlock and disarm the security system also with the key. At that point, the car should start.
One other thing to try, is to lower the driver window, close up all else, then lock and arm the system with the key. Then pull up on the drive lock button and open the door. That should trip the security system with a 15 second escalating warning sound. Within that 15 seconds, jump in the car and turn the ignition on and off three times and on the fourth time turn all the way to start. That should also reset the security system and allow starting.
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Roncarne (06-15-2017)
#23
Using the key to arm and disarm the security does not mean the car will start. The security system is separate from the PATS system. It is the chip in the key that unlocks the ECM etc to enable start but I am not certain that even if the PATS is not working correctly the car will not turn over. Some posts have quoted that they have a code 12 but the car will not start but turns over.
Roger
Roger
#24
Not sure why Alfadude, possibly something with the chip inside the key, or something may have caused interference with the security between the key and the vehicle? I know when programming keys on the newer vehicles, if anything goes wrong during program process it wipes software from the keyless vehicle modules, then you have to replace the module and keys. With your vehicle, you shouldn't have that problem. Make sure the remote is working, and try cycling the key in the barrel in the drivers door.
#25
Thank you, Gentlemen, one and all for your help and responses:
As and update to what I have done today and tried: I drove to the Jaguar Dealership (about a 50 mile trip each way) only to have them tell me that they do not cut and program keys, they do not have the equipment…the next Jaguar Dealer is and additional 30 miles or so. Consequently, no new keys today.
I tried the window open etc., reset of the security system (four times) suggested by Dell Gailey; unfortunately, no positive results.
I tried the “hard reset” procedure suggested by Rchiv; unfortunately, no positive results. (I also tried the shifting between P and N), unfortunately, no positive results.
Alphadude queried why a transponder in a key would go bad…I also have the same question but, I have read several posts where someone tried a spare key and all was well…..so, I guess they can go bad.
Alphadude sent me the link to the PATS system for an S type (mine is an X type) but unfortunately I could not make enough sense out of the detailed document but, most importantly, it did not include a “code 12” which is the failure code which I have.
I did go back and retrace my steps with fuses and the starter relay, I tested the circuits with my tester and they all showed well….I even bought a new relay and tested that (relays are cheap and I don’t mind having a spare) but unfortunately, no positive results.
I simply cannot believe how hard so many of you have worked to help me solve this problem and I am forever grateful…..thank you Gentlemen…..I will persevere and eventually get there from here.
As and update to what I have done today and tried: I drove to the Jaguar Dealership (about a 50 mile trip each way) only to have them tell me that they do not cut and program keys, they do not have the equipment…the next Jaguar Dealer is and additional 30 miles or so. Consequently, no new keys today.
I tried the window open etc., reset of the security system (four times) suggested by Dell Gailey; unfortunately, no positive results.
I tried the “hard reset” procedure suggested by Rchiv; unfortunately, no positive results. (I also tried the shifting between P and N), unfortunately, no positive results.
Alphadude queried why a transponder in a key would go bad…I also have the same question but, I have read several posts where someone tried a spare key and all was well…..so, I guess they can go bad.
Alphadude sent me the link to the PATS system for an S type (mine is an X type) but unfortunately I could not make enough sense out of the detailed document but, most importantly, it did not include a “code 12” which is the failure code which I have.
I did go back and retrace my steps with fuses and the starter relay, I tested the circuits with my tester and they all showed well….I even bought a new relay and tested that (relays are cheap and I don’t mind having a spare) but unfortunately, no positive results.
I simply cannot believe how hard so many of you have worked to help me solve this problem and I am forever grateful…..thank you Gentlemen…..I will persevere and eventually get there from here.
#26
More programming info (not applicable to your circumstances, but....)
Upper portion of Key Fob Programming of transponder to the cars ignition to be able to start the car. Must have the two original keys. If one is missing will have to reprogram all keys using Dealer WDS/SDD software.
• Insert the first valid key and turn to the run position (position II, not position III run engine) for a maximum of five seconds, then turn to off and remove the key.
• Within ten seconds of removing the first key, insert the second valid key and turn to the run position for a maximum of five seconds, then turn to off and remove the key.
• To program the third (additional/unrecognized) key, insert the new key and turn to the run position within twenty seconds of removing the second key, allow the in car PATS RED LED to prove out for three seconds to confirm storage of the additional key, the red security light will then go out, then turn the key to off and remove the key.
• This method can be used to store up to a maximum 8 ignition keys.
Upper portion of Key Fob Programming of transponder to the cars ignition to be able to start the car. Must have the two original keys. If one is missing will have to reprogram all keys using Dealer WDS/SDD software.
• Insert the first valid key and turn to the run position (position II, not position III run engine) for a maximum of five seconds, then turn to off and remove the key.
• Within ten seconds of removing the first key, insert the second valid key and turn to the run position for a maximum of five seconds, then turn to off and remove the key.
• To program the third (additional/unrecognized) key, insert the new key and turn to the run position within twenty seconds of removing the second key, allow the in car PATS RED LED to prove out for three seconds to confirm storage of the additional key, the red security light will then go out, then turn the key to off and remove the key.
• This method can be used to store up to a maximum 8 ignition keys.
#27
Thank you Dell:
Actually, I think this is exactly applicable to my car, not necessarily my problem, unless my one and only key has lost its program. I need to take the key to a locksmith and have him scan the key; see if it reads a code. If not, then we know the problem is with the key. If it does read a code, I am still not out of the woods. I will do that in the next day or so.
Actually, I think this is exactly applicable to my car, not necessarily my problem, unless my one and only key has lost its program. I need to take the key to a locksmith and have him scan the key; see if it reads a code. If not, then we know the problem is with the key. If it does read a code, I am still not out of the woods. I will do that in the next day or so.
#28
When you took the vehicle to the dealer, did you ask them to scan for codes? The security and PATS are run through different modules. Security is done through GEM ( General Electronic Module ) and the PATS is through the Instrument Pack itself. Once you've checked the keys, report back and let us know what you find from locksmith.
#29
#31
Removed the starter relay and jumped the leads; the starter cranks fine and strong
tested the battery; full 12.5 v
tested the load on battery (using the a/c fan and door open (interior lights., etc..) holds charge fine
Turn ignition to position II; everything normal except the console light flashes rapidly
Turn to start position ....nothing; no buzz; no click; no chatter or solenoid
Mine is 2003 vintage and does not have fuse F34....I did check every fuse and all are confirmed good
With ignition in II position; rapid flashing of console light for about 60 seconds; then one flash followed by two flashes (code 12)...repeats for a minute or two then goes out.
I have tried "resetting the alarm" by locking manually and then opening with remote.,
I have read all of the OBD codes and nothing spectacular (P0171;0174;03
01;1313;1316;0102;0112;0122;0222;0420;0430;1108;; None of the codes should stop it from cranking
tested the battery; full 12.5 v
tested the load on battery (using the a/c fan and door open (interior lights., etc..) holds charge fine
Turn ignition to position II; everything normal except the console light flashes rapidly
Turn to start position ....nothing; no buzz; no click; no chatter or solenoid
Mine is 2003 vintage and does not have fuse F34....I did check every fuse and all are confirmed good
With ignition in II position; rapid flashing of console light for about 60 seconds; then one flash followed by two flashes (code 12)...repeats for a minute or two then goes out.
I have tried "resetting the alarm" by locking manually and then opening with remote.,
I have read all of the OBD codes and nothing spectacular (P0171;0174;03
01;1313;1316;0102;0112;0122;0222;0420;0430;1108;; None of the codes should stop it from cranking
Usually on a 2002 or 2003 I think it would need a new starter anyway,
so I wasted no time checking, just got a new starter and everything
worked fine after that. Replaced it with a new Bosh.
On mine it charged OK, and battery checked fine.
Walter
#32
Ed:
No, I have not fixed mine yet. Error code 12 means "No data received from lock barrel pick up".
It appears that you an I have the exact same problem. I would love to stay in touch an share solutions.
I plan on taking mine the to Jaguar Dealership in Plano, TX., but I have to put it on a flat bed to do that; so, I will do that when I find time....it is not my daily driver so no big rush.
No, I have not fixed mine yet. Error code 12 means "No data received from lock barrel pick up".
It appears that you an I have the exact same problem. I would love to stay in touch an share solutions.
I plan on taking mine the to Jaguar Dealership in Plano, TX., but I have to put it on a flat bed to do that; so, I will do that when I find time....it is not my daily driver so no big rush.
#34
#36
So I found one other possibility for not starting beyond the transponder not working. As you insert and remove the ignition key, there is a "shutter" that should open/close with key insertion/removal. If it does not close completely, it can mess with the transponder not recognizing the key.
Here is the info I found from a UK company that repairs Jag keys/fobs =
look carefully at the ignition barrel. There should be a small shutter which closes when you remove the key from the ignition. The car's security module uses this to recognise when a key is inserted or removed from the ignition. If this doesn't completely close, you will not be able to reprogram/use remotes to the car. In this instance, a small spray of maintenance or lubricating spray such as WD40 or silicone spray, followed by inserting and removing the key a few times should solve the problem. Sometimes it's worth giving it a spray, inserting and removing the key a few times, then leaving it to penetrate for a couple of hours. DO NOT use oil in the ignition, as this leaves a residue which will cause dust and dirt to stick inside the ignition.
Here is the info I found from a UK company that repairs Jag keys/fobs =
look carefully at the ignition barrel. There should be a small shutter which closes when you remove the key from the ignition. The car's security module uses this to recognise when a key is inserted or removed from the ignition. If this doesn't completely close, you will not be able to reprogram/use remotes to the car. In this instance, a small spray of maintenance or lubricating spray such as WD40 or silicone spray, followed by inserting and removing the key a few times should solve the problem. Sometimes it's worth giving it a spray, inserting and removing the key a few times, then leaving it to penetrate for a couple of hours. DO NOT use oil in the ignition, as this leaves a residue which will cause dust and dirt to stick inside the ignition.
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Roncarne (06-14-2017)
#37
Wow Dell:
You just don't give up...you have my admiration for that. Unfortunately, I already tried the lubricating spray (WD40) on the ignition switch and it had no effect. Since you have suggested it (based on research), I am going to try it again....I will report back on here.
Thank you Dell
You just don't give up...you have my admiration for that. Unfortunately, I already tried the lubricating spray (WD40) on the ignition switch and it had no effect. Since you have suggested it (based on research), I am going to try it again....I will report back on here.
Thank you Dell
#38
So here is my analysis. 1. You have 2 keys and switched normal used set and spare is not "paired" to the car for some reason. 2. You inadvertently erased the "pairing" and you now need to pair (read here = program) the key to car (& if you have 2 keys, both must be present when pairing). Having a key fob not paired to your car, gives exactly the symptoms you have described by activating the fob immobilizer.
Pairing fob =https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://m.youtube.com/watch%3Fv%3DyJgp7bOGgns&ved=0ahUKEwj6ptTYuuHTAhVO-GMKHQ0XBfYQo7QBCBwwAA&usg=AFQjCNHjs9p1K1Wvl23dSy0c 2wMFCqRLkA&sig2=f4gO0Edxif3pFCJ3pX8pLw
Pairing fob =https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://m.youtube.com/watch%3Fv%3DyJgp7bOGgns&ved=0ahUKEwj6ptTYuuHTAhVO-GMKHQ0XBfYQo7QBCBwwAA&usg=AFQjCNHjs9p1K1Wvl23dSy0c 2wMFCqRLkA&sig2=f4gO0Edxif3pFCJ3pX8pLw
spray into the key hole rather then wd-40.
Walter
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Roncarne (06-15-2017)
#40
Problem solved
I promised that if and when I solved the problem with the "error 12", I would post it here.
I finally had no choice but to give up on the problem since only a limited number of Jaguar Dealers even have the right computers to diagnose the problem
It turned out that the "instrument cluster" had failed (a common failing to this particular car and model). I purchased a new cluster, had Jaguar install it and voila, problem solved.
Ron
I finally had no choice but to give up on the problem since only a limited number of Jaguar Dealers even have the right computers to diagnose the problem
It turned out that the "instrument cluster" had failed (a common failing to this particular car and model). I purchased a new cluster, had Jaguar install it and voila, problem solved.
Ron