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3. None of the three brake lights is working (all of them are permanently off).
Help.
The “DSC System Fault” warning message has appeared on the dashboard display of my X-Type. At the same time, the ABS brake warning light came on. Both of these do not appear when I start the engine and first drive away; they only appear after subsequent (sometimes not the first) use of the brake pedal.
I have also noticed that none of the three brake lights (left/right/middle) is working when I press the brake pedal (all of them are permanently off).
I have read that if there is a problem with the brake switch near the brake pedal in an X-Type, that the brake lights will stay on but this is the opposite (the brake lights are permanently off and do not come on with use of the brake pedal).
Are these three brake problems linked?
And should I be looking at the brake switch near the brake pedal?
How do I diagnose and solve the problems?
I can't find any reference in the X-Type fuse box (x2 - Engine and Cabin) layouts to a 'brake fuse'. The best I found was a fuse called "F13 (5A) DSC" in the Engine Fuse Box.
Check F51 - the 7.5Amps fuse in the passenger compartment fuse box (assuming you are mid 2005 and beyond production model)
In earlier variants I believe it is F90 also 7.5Amp.
The fuse serves brake switches, rear lights and also feeds into anti lock module etc.....just might be the culprit you are looking for.
F51 (7.5A) Manual transmission cruise control clutch switch, brake switch
I have checked the two fuses above, changing them one by one for new ones without solving any of the problems. So both fuses were and are OK; there was no blown fuse.
I then looked at the brake pedal and what I thought was the brake switch (my car has both ABS and cruise fitted); I did not realise there were two switches (brake and ABS/cruise) to look for on the brake pedal. With the ‘switch’ still in place, I pushed down the brake pedal and extended the switch ‘piston’ to full extent, letting it click back into position as I released the brake pedal. So the switch that I found was mechanically functioning OK; I did not test with a multi-meter, and I did not find and test the second switch.
When driving (with no cars anywhere near), the cruise control comes on OK and the normal cruise cancelling also works OK – i.e. in cruise control, pressing the clutch pedal cancels cruise and pressing the brake pedal also cancels cruise. So all the cruise control functions seems to be working, including cancelling with the pedals.
I have noticed that, when the engine is turned on and the car is driven, when the brake pedal is pressed lightly there is no “DSC System Fault” warning message and no ABS Warning Light; but when I press the brake pedal harder and further, the “DSC System Fault” warning message appears, and the ABS Warning Light comes on. So there is something about how hard and/or how far the brake pedal is pressed that is triggering the DSC and ABS warnings.
In all of the above, none of the three brake lights comes on when pressing the brake pedal and they are not permanently on (they are permanently off).
You have an electrical issue
You need to use electrical test equipment to test electrical faults.
If you dont own one, I suggest you buy or borrow a multi meter (it doesnt need to be an expensive one) and a test light.
It will also help you to look at a wiring schematic for your car to see how the brake switch or switches work.
I am an auto elec and for testing, I use a combination of both tools and a schematic (if I can find one)
Your brake lights not coming on is normally going to be a fuse or a faulty switch.
Without knowing your vehicle, it may also have a brake light module, if this fails, it can also cause no brake lights.
One thing to consider is when the fault happened. A lot of faults with rear lighting happen after a trailer has been towed
Thanks for this. I am beginning to suspect an electrical issue.My X-Type is a manual gearbox and the cruise clutch switch appears to be functioning because pressing the clutch pedal cancels the cruise control OK. Also, I can't see how that switch is linked to DSC, ABS and brake lights.
The relevant brake fuses (Engine Compartment F13 5A DSC and Passenger F51 7.5A Manual transmission cruise control clutch switch, brake switch) are also OK because changing them out made no difference.
I can't figure out whether it is a switch, a sensor or another issue; particularly with the brake lights permanently off being linked with DSC/ABS warnings.
My guess is that it is the brake switch. But why would the brake lights be permanently off if the fuses are OK? I thought a failed brake switch turned the brake lights permanently on.
I forgot to say that my car does not have a tow bar any more (it was removed 5 years ago without a problem), so I have not been towing a caravan or trailer that may have cause these recent brake issues,
Switches can fail so they dont turn on as well.
I have copied the rear lighting schematic for you. You can see the stop light switch down the bottom of the page is a simple on/off type switch.
Check the wire colours, 1 is green with a white trace, the other has a red trace (I think "N" is blue, but I cant remember)
If you unplug the switch, you can use a paper clip or some other small bit of wire to bridge out the connectors in the plug and that should make the brake lights come on.
I havnt studied all the schematics, sometimes if its a duel purpose switch, the show the other function in a different schematic relevant to that function, but looking at the schematic, there
are no stop light checkers or modules involved.
See how you go. If the lights come on, its the switch is faulty
I think European models could have a trailer towing module that controls rear lights and also feeds to external lighting plug.
Do you know if you have that module in your car?
If so the schematic is different for that variant.
Check Fuse 19 (30A) in passenger junction fuse box.
Check Fuse 4 (20A) in passenger junction fuse box.
They both feed supply into the trailer towing module along with other areas.
I took a photo and I can see a Black (brake light?) switch and a Green (Cruise cancel/DSC?) switch on the brake pedal. It was the Black switch on the brake pedal that I was adjusting.
I will look at the brake bulbs but the reason I have not done that earlier is that the centre LED for the brake lights is also permanently off. That would be a heck of a coincidence, all three brake light 'bulbs' failing together and needing replacing. That's why I focussed on the fuses and brake switch. It all seems to point to the brake switch failing (but with the brake lights permanently off). I have a multi-meter and am going to use it to test the Black brake switch.
I have wiring diagrams for the X-Type Estate (UK) both with and without the towing module, although the only difference with the towing module seems to be the power being tapped off one of the brake light feeds. There are also separate earth grounds for each of the rear light clusters and the other bulbs in each cluster are working fine so the earth grounding is OK. I will also look at Fuse 19 (30A) and Fuse 4 (20A) in passenger junction fuse box because my car did have a Witter removable tow bar fitted when I purchased it (I had to remove it 5 years ago to pass a Spanish MOT test because I live in Spain now). This 'DSC/ABS errors and no brake light' issue is recent, so I don't think it is because of tow bar removal.
When the brake pedal is pressed lightly there is no “DSC System Fault” warning message and no ABS Warning Light; but when I press the brake pedal harder and further, the “DSC System Fault” warning message appears, and the ABS Warning Light comes on. This seems to be because the two switches on the brake pedal are giving different readings when the brake pedal is pressed and these readings need to agree or it flags an error message. Maybe the Green switch moves after the Black switch and then reacts to how hard and/or how far the brake pedal is pressed to trigger these DSC and ABS warnings. (The manual gearbox clutch cruise cancelling switch is OK). If the brake switch has failed, I believe this would also cause a DSC and ABS error to appear.
So I am going to focus on brake bulbs (not going to look at centre brake LED) , re-checking fuses and testing the Black brake switch.
Thanks for all the advice on this X-Type brake issue.
Today, I was going to look at bulbs, fuses, then the brake switch in that easy order. But after reading forum advice I reversed the order and looked at the Black brake switch first. I tried looking at the brake switch last weekend at home but almost wrecked my back trying to get into position in the driver’s footwell. This time I thought about it first and parked my car on a quiet road with the driver’s side almost touching a high pavement kerb and now it was almost level to get into the driver’s footwell. Much easier and useful for forum members reading this.
FOR EASY ACCESS TO A DRIVER OR PASSENGER FOOTWELL, PARK NEXT TO A HIGH PAVEMENT KERB.
I disconnected the connector, left the brake switch in position, and bridged the contacts in the connector with a wire. As soon as I turned on the ignition, all three brake lights (left, right and LED) came on. Bingo, the brake switch is faulty, and I have removed it for replacement.
Note: This faulty brake switch did not leave the brake lights permanently on, which is what I have read in many threads and on other websites. This faulty brake switch left the brake lights permanently off, which is why I looked at other possible fault sources first.
So I am looking for a replacement Jaguar X-type brake switch to replace FAE 24810 H15. I will look online (in Spain) and in local car stores (Granada, Spain).
Should I be aware of any issues with Jaguar changing the X-Type brake switches in about 2004 or 2005?
There does appear to be a change in production which is generally around the May 2005 period.
I can see quite a number of UK aftermarket parts providers listing the FAE 24810 switch.
Couldn't quickly find an outlet in Spain sorry.
Fitted the new brake switch today, including depressing the brake pedal to avoid the switch piston moving during installation. Released the brake pedal and the brake switch piston moved in one initial click. Turned the ignition on and all three brake issues disappeared; no DSC System Fault message, no ABS light on the dashboard and 3 working brake lights now. Thanks to all help and advice received from forum members. I would not have diagnosed and solved this problem without you.
Jaguar X-Type Brake Faults
