X-Type ( X400 ) 2001 - 2009
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Lean Bank 2

 
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Old 05-20-2019, 07:31 PM
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Default Lean Bank 2

Hello,

I have a 2002 Jaguar X-Type 3.0L American Left Drive - Manual Transmission with ATC Heat/Air
I have been dealing with a recurring P0174 and the EVAP monitor won't go ready and the CCM monitor won't go ready.

What I have done so far:

1. Found and replaced a compromised PCV hose,
2. Replaced the PCV valve as well.
3. Replaced grommets holding the Air Intake Filter box,
4. Replaced the Air Filter.
5. Replaced the Mass Airflow Sensor, the old one had black carbon-like soot on the intake side of the ruby sensor.
6. Checked Fuel levels, have been using the 92 High Octane Gasoline.

The car did pass inspection in late April 2019 at a testing station where they checked the gas cap and emissions and exhaust.

I have cleared the DTC codes, the P0174 comes back after about 30-45 minutes of driving, specifically when I reach speeds of 60 MPH (104KPH) or higher.
I have followed the drive cycle instructions perfectly on a road where I have basically no chance of fuel slosh.

When accelerating, the car stumbles some around 4,000 RPM in 2nd and 3rd gear, I haven't tried it in the higher gears because I would be travelling far above the allowed speed limits..

Things I am wondering about on this:

Could this be a fuel filter issue?

I can also see a plastic shroud under the intake manifold that seems to not be in place. Is this a filter or likely some manufacturer's piece that needs to be replaced, or is it normal?


Is there anything else I need to check that could be setting off the P0174 code and not allowing the CCM and EVAP monitors to complete?
 
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Old 05-20-2019, 09:03 PM
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Bruce, you don't mention replacing the IMT valve o-rings and/or the brake booster hose. Both of these can cause what you are seeing. The IMT o-rings are really cheap and fairly easy to replace. The brake booster hose is a little more expensive (like $15 as I recall), but takes a minute or two to replace. I would start there.

Granted, if you are questioning the fuel filter, that would be another cheap and fairly easy thing to replace. Granted, I would think that the fuel filter would be giving you other indications.

Start here and see what you have. Worst case, if you are suspecting a vacuum leak, you can buy a cigar and smoke it (or have a friend smoke it for you) and then you gently blow the smoke into the engine bay with the engine fairly cold and the A/C turned off (ie, don't want the engine fan running). You can then watch the smoke and where it makes a sudden turn will point at your leak location.
 
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Old 05-20-2019, 09:11 PM
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Just a clarification for you on the MAF. The "ruby sensor" is the IAT, the actual MAF is down inside the little "tube" where the small wires are visable.

On your p0174, have you already ruled out vacuum leaks on the "big 3"?

When you say "evap monitor won't go ready", what code are you getting? I just went through the evap condition for over a year until this year it wouldn't reset upon clearing the code. The only way it can be diagnosed is with a smoke test. Mine turned out to be the rubber hose between fuel tank and filler pipe. $50 part & $800 labor because tank needed to be dropped to repair the hose. & I didn't want to do it myself as I do with everything else on the car.
 
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Old 05-20-2019, 10:28 PM
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Originally Posted by Thermo View Post
Bruce, you don't mention replacing the IMT valve o-rings and/or the brake booster hose. Both of these can cause what you are seeing. The IMT o-rings are really cheap and fairly easy to replace. The brake booster hose is a little more expensive (like $15 as I recall), but takes a minute or two to replace. I would start there.

Granted, if you are questioning the fuel filter, that would be another cheap and fairly easy thing to replace. Granted, I would think that the fuel filter would be giving you other indications.

Start here and see what you have. Worst case, if you are suspecting a vacuum leak, you can buy a cigar and smoke it (or have a friend smoke it for you) and then you gently blow the smoke into the engine bay with the engine fairly cold and the A/C turned off (ie, don't want the engine fan running). You can then watch the smoke and where it makes a sudden turn will point at your leak location.
I didn't know about the IMT o-rings. I checked out the upper IMT and it has residue build-up on the bottom front of the unit indicating a possible vacuum leak. I will get both o-rings and replace them both. I inspected the brake booster hose and there seems to be no problem with it on either end. There is also another hose attached to the lower intake manifold and it appears to be solid as well.

Originally Posted by Dell Gailey View Post
Just a clarification for you on the MAF. The "ruby sensor" is the IAT, the actual MAF is down inside the little "tube" where the small wires are visible.

On your p0174, have you already ruled out vacuum leaks on the "big 3"?

When you say "evap monitor won't go ready", what code are you getting? I just went through the evap condition for over a year until this year it wouldn't reset upon clearing the code. The only way it can be diagnosed is with a smoke test. Mine turned out to be the rubber hose between fuel tank and filler pipe. $50 part & $800 labor because tank needed to be dropped to repair the hose. & I didn't want to do it myself as I do with everything else on the car.
If you don't mind giving me a heads up on what the Big 3 are I would greatly appreciate it. This is my first Jaguar, and honestly the first car I've ever done the work on myself. If I learn it, I can accomplish it.

I have checked the things on my first post, all of them are correctly working. I'm not getting any other codes but the P0174 (Lean bank 2), The EVAP monitor stays in Not Ready state and the CCM monitor stays in Not Ready State.
 
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Old 05-21-2019, 11:10 AM
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Bruce, the "big 3" consist of the following:

-IMT o-rings
-PCV hose
-brake booster line

You replaced the PCV hose on your own and you just checked the IMT O-rings and the brake booster hose with what I told you to do. The big 3 tend to fix about 99% of the vacuum problems that you can have with this car. After that, a good smoke test and you can find that random leak here and there.
 
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Old 05-21-2019, 02:52 PM
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In answer to your other question about the plastic looking thing in your picture. That is an insulation blanket sitting between the intake manifold and the rear bank on the engine. Mine just lays loose on top of the engine between the manifold and cylinder block.
 
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Old 05-21-2019, 03:56 PM
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Old 05-21-2019, 11:24 PM
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I found the leak it was the check valve on the brake vacuum hose. I also could not find the brake vacuum hose at my local auto parts store. Does anybody know anyone on this forum that sells X type parts?
 
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Old 05-22-2019, 12:59 AM
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Old 05-25-2019, 06:45 PM
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After repairing the brake vacuum line, the light came back on. New oil residue is building up around the bottom IMTV. I also noticed that it appears to have been smothered with some type of gray gasket filler. Is this normal? Should I scrape it away and clean it well before replacing the o rings? They are on the way and will be here at 9am at my local parts store.
 
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Old 05-25-2019, 08:35 PM
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Old 05-26-2019, 12:25 AM
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Thanks
 
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Old 05-29-2019, 01:59 PM
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Thank you everyone for your help so far, but I still have the same problem.

I have replaced the IMT Valve O-rings and added gasket maker back to them. This did not resolve the issue.

What are the other possibilities for OBDII code p0174. I have searched both the internet and this forum and can't find any other possible information that could lead me in a different direction.

These are all completed:
1. New PCV Hose and valve
2. New IMTV O-Rings
3. New Brake Booster Vacuum line
4. New MAF Sensor
5. New Fuel Filter

As far as performance, the car drives normally at less than 3000 rpm but the MIL and Yellow Warning light are illuminated. Sometimes after the car has fully warmed up, there is a gasoline smell at first start. The electronic gauges say the car is getting 18-20 MPG however, the truth is more like 12-15. The car endures a lot of stop and go traffic throughout the day and also it is switched off and back on repeatedly due to necessity. I am unable to find any vacuum leaks using the starter fluid technique on a cold start.
 
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Old 05-29-2019, 04:45 PM
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Bruce, do you like smoking cigars? if so, here you go (if not, I am sure you know someone who does, buy them a nice cigar and the payment is they have to do what I am about to tell you). With the car cold, ensure the A/C is turned off (also not in defrost mode either), and then start the car. With a lit cigar, gently blow the smoke into the engine bay. The smoke should gently wander through the engine bay. Watch the smoke and see where it makes a sudden change in direction. That will be pointing to the vacuum leak.

Based on what you have changed, I am betting that you are going to need to replace the upper and lower intake gaskets. The uppers are easy to find at any auto parts store. But, none seem to carry the lowers (unless you know the trick). That trick would be to ask them for the lower intake gaskets for a 02 Lincoln LS 3.0L engine. That portion of the engine is the same and those gaskets work wonderfully. The uppers and lowers are like $20 each. It is going to take a few hours to get to the lowers, but it is only about 15 more minutes than just doing the uppers and it will ensure you have a tight intake at that point. This will also expose some pieces that may not have been very visible before hand and may also show you where your leak is coming from.
 
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Old 05-29-2019, 06:43 PM
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This is horrible news. Wouldn't the intake manifold gaskets cause different codes than only P0174?
 
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Old 05-30-2019, 05:35 AM
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Bruce, all depends on which ones are leaking and which ones are still sealing. If you have a bad leak on say cylinders 2 and 4, then the car is going to see this on bank 2 and throw the code while the others may be leaking just a little bit and it is not enough to throw the other code (P0171). This would also be a reason why you may not be seeing any change using the starter fluid trick as spraying something down on to these gaskets would be very difficult.
 
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Old 05-30-2019, 08:37 AM
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Have you watched fuel trims to make sure it actually _is_ an air leak?

#1 thing to do, for me.

(#2 would be the freeze frame data)
 
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Old 05-30-2019, 11:13 PM
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Originally Posted by JagV8 View Post
Have you watched fuel trims to make sure it actually _is_ an air leak?

#1 thing to do, for me.

(#2 would be the freeze frame data)
I don't think I have the equipment to watch fuel trims. I am a novice trying to save as much money on these repairs as I possibly can. I have an OBDII Scanner tool only. It will erase and show the status of I/M and trouble codes. But it is very basic.

I have some questions about the parts I used. I bought discount parts to save money, are they the same as the OEM parts or did I just waste money?

I bought my Mass Air Flow sensor from www.am-autoparts.com It isn't the OEM, but it is supposed to work.
https://www.am-autoparts.com/product...?m=1199&y=2002

I bought my PCV valve from rockauto.com it is one of the URO ones they sell on their site from time to time.
The part I bought there is no longer available. It looks identical to the one that was on the car that failed.

I bought my IMTV O-Rings from Advance Auto Parts near me, they are black and not green like the ones I have seen here, there is some play between the sides of the channel that the o-rings fit into and I don't know if that is normal.
 
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Old 05-30-2019, 11:22 PM
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Your OBD should be able to read fuel trims if you use the program "Torque" from google or Apple store downloaded to your cell phone.

Re parts = MAF, probably ok. Rockauto parts, never had problems with them. Gaskets, no experience, I'll let others advise you.
 
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Old 05-31-2019, 12:38 AM
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Originally Posted by Dell Gailey View Post
Your OBD should be able to read fuel trims if you use the program "Torque" from google or Apple store downloaded to your cell phone.
Mine is basic, it doesn't support Bluetooth capability.
It's this one.
https://www.northerntool.com/shop/to...7465_200677465
 

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