X-Type ( X400 ) 2001 - 2009
Sponsored by:
Sponsored by:

P0193- Fuel rail pressure- high input

Old May 11, 2021 | 10:33 AM
  #1  
Backhertz's Avatar
Thread Starter
|
Senior Member
Joined: Jan 2013
Posts: 157
Likes: 19
From: NJ
Default P0193- Fuel rail pressure- high input

2004 Sport with 108K miles. Changed the spark plugs & replaced all the intake manifold gaskets. Fuel long/short fuel trims looking good now. Will see when the engine is at 30 degrees F or lower before considering the 171/174problem resolved. Changing the spark plugs is so much easier than a fuel pump.

Once the engine started purring afterwards, noticed fuel pressure was a steady 70.9 psi. Was 55 psi prior. Obvious metering issue. Nope- operator error. Neglected to reconnect the pressure sensor connector. Hard to see under the hose.

Got to install the intake manifold twice. After the ‘practice’ install, noted the fuel injector clips still sitting on the cowl grille. <expletives delete>. Took little time to remove/replace the intake manifold.

Backflushed & cleaned the fuel injectors. Tried using the adapters that came with an Allsun from Amazon- a waste of time. Ended up breaking off the white plastic output tube. Need 4 hands to do. Gotta be a better way, so made my own adapter using three inches of 1/2” ID hose , rubber stopper from Lowe’s,

Replaces the IMT gaskets & throttle body gasket. Amazon/Advance Auto/Autozone list a Fel-Pro 61376 as an exact fit for a 2004 3.0L X-Type. The correct is a Mahle G31831. Advance Auto lists it for $38.19; Autozone $5.79. Also listed for the 3.0 throttle body is a Fuel-Pro 73202.









Note no bracket.


 
Reply
Old Dec 26, 2021 | 09:02 PM
  #2  
Patterson's Avatar
Senior Member
15 Year Member
Liked
Loved
Community Favorite
Joined: Jun 2010
Posts: 676
Likes: 57
From: Scottsdale, AZ
Default

Good post Mr Backhertz, I feel your pain. Getting the intake manifold in place, torqued down, and then realizing you forgot the EFI clips; easy mistake, but a painful one.

I've been thru this array of repairs, meaning I had misfires and oily spark plug wells a few years ago. I ended up removing and replacing the intake along with the cam covers, the fuel injectors, the fuel pressure gauge, and the knock sensor, and all gaskets of course. I even replaced the O2 sensors (4) while I had everything apart. All limp mode symptoms and OBD codes when away; one issue remained: intermittent stalling at idle. So, the car runs good, zips up to high RPMs on the Fwy, but stalls sometimes at stop lights when idling.

Drove the car w/ the stalling issue for about 7K miles since I did not know what it was, no codes, fuel trims look good, etc. and it always started right back up. I figured I may have pinched a gasket putting everything back together and caused a tiny vacuum leak somewhere that may cause stalling, but doesn't trigger an OBD code.

That was until a month ago when it stalled and would not restart! I had it towed home and found that it had spark but no fuel pressure. I had the fuel pump replaced, car started running almost normal, but after a little driving the stalling has returned.
Good morning heartache by Billy Holiday comes to mind:
 
Reply
Old Dec 27, 2021 | 10:17 AM
  #3  
Backhertz's Avatar
Thread Starter
|
Senior Member
Joined: Jan 2013
Posts: 157
Likes: 19
From: NJ
Default

Hmm. Wondering what the fuel pressure is? Wondering if the original issue was resolved? Intermittent problems often make people start talking to themselves.

Are you able to monitor the pressure as it stalls? Thermo recommended an ELM327. Only $13. Doesn’t have all the bells & whistles but shows live data.

Suspect a fuel pump related or perhaps a connection issue. Realize you replaced the pump. But can’t rule it out. There’s also a pump driver. As I recall it takes the PWM (pulse width modulated) signal from the ECM to drive the pump. This is easier to see with oscilloscope.

Some often see 12 volts & believe all is well when there’s a problem. The key signal is the ground which is switched (turned on & off).

Good luck.

Btw, replacing the intake manifold gaskets solved the P171/174 issue.
 
Reply
Old Dec 27, 2021 | 06:23 PM
  #4  
All Cattle No Hat's Avatar
Joined: Nov 2021
Posts: 55
Likes: 3
Default

You didn't mention it but did you do the lower gaskets as well (underneath the black assembly that the fuel injectors mount to)? I just did the same thing, my engine light went away as well afterward and so far has stayed off, even at the current low temps here. Doing the lower gaskets is almost no additional time once you are in that far already. My lowers looked worse than my uppers but I think both were original (or at least factory green/black like yours).

I didn't touch the fuel rail, it can stay installed (but you were doing more work, I see), and even the intake stayed attached at the TB side, I just carefully tilted it all up to the right and then wired it with a wire hanger to the hood hinge to keep it in place. The whole center black assembly with fuel rail attached lifts up (after breaking it free with some gentle sideways pressure) and with a helper was able to clean it up, then clean the lower manifold surfaces and replace those gaskets.

Interesting re the 10mm bolt vs the 8mm, that's the "hidden" one, right? That was a right pisser to get off, mainly due to limited selection of tool attachments and large-ish hands...
 
Reply
Old Dec 28, 2021 | 01:07 PM
  #5  
Backhertz's Avatar
Thread Starter
|
Senior Member
Joined: Jan 2013
Posts: 157
Likes: 19
From: NJ
Default

The hidden support bracket wasn’t easy but since I had time, took it.

Off topic trials & tribulations. Grab a cup of coffee.

The car is one of the best I’ve ever owned. Tells me when it’s time to change the battery with a bogus DSC fault message. A shame the headliner sags like many Fords, but add upholstery clips before it became an issue.

Changing the fuel pump took a few months. Imagine now might do it in a day- that includes using a 8” carbide-tip hole saw. Why? Pulling a fuel tank is one of those only once in a life experience as far as I’m concerned.

Realize now I might have only needed to drop the front of the tank a few inches & rest on the driveshaft to ensure the hole saw pilot bit doesn’t come near the tank. Believe that way there’s no need to remove the driveshaft & exhaust pipe. Just a thought.

This is not an easy job. Fortunately a neighbor loaned me his big Harley jack- the perfect tool with the car up high on jack stands.

Cutting round holes looks much better than the sardine can methods shown on YouTube. Using POR patch, the holes are easily put back & place & sealed. When POR cures, looks as good as a factory seal. Can see pics in previous threads. If anyone needs a paper template, can share.

After it was all in place, all was well for a short time until one of the fuel line snap-on connectors blew off the sending unit on the other side of the tank. Symptom: no or low fuel pressure. (cue: Homer Simpson: Doh!). Always ensure you hear or feel a snap when making connections.

Thought at first it ‘couldn’t’ be the new pump & looked at the pump driver module. It’s like a buffer amplifier that isolates the ECU from the pump. Signal is easily seen with an oscope. Mine was fine & then I hear the pump running. Popped the cover off the sending unit side & saw one of the lines had blown off.

Took less than an hour to correct. The POR sealant hadn’t fully cured. The access ‘ports’ made removing the fuel pump & sending units almost as easy as an S-Type. The S-Type has factory ports under the rear seat as it’s flat.

The real ‘fun’ comes when draining & servicing the drive train. Apparently these were designed with no service required. The transfer case needs to be filled from the drain plug. Been told it’s similar to filling an outboard motor.

The automatic transmission is tricky as well. Some often remove the reduction band anchor bolt for the fluid check plug. Big time opps.

My transfer case was low. Not anymore.

Car now has 108k miles. Still as fun to drive as day 1. My first experience in an X-Type was in Germany. Rented one from Hertz for a couple at the airport in Frankfurt in 2003. Driving on the Autobahn was an experience of a lifetime. Similar to the scene in Caddy Shack when the preacher played golf in a lightning storm much to my wife’s chagrin who kept calling out my name to slow down.

Though only a 2.5L was able to drive 125+ mph from Frankfurt to Munich. Learned speed is relative when Porsches & other sports whizzed by at 180 mph+ & made us feel like we were crawling.

The speed-assist steering can really be enjoyed at high speed. Handled as if we were only driving 50 mph. Through the Austrian & Italian Alps, the car easily handled the curves at double the posted limit. (Don’t do that)

Had a navigation system which once the language was changed to English, took us to all the places we needed to go in Germany, Austria, & Italy.

Liked so much, bought a 2004 black sport model. First 10-12 years had to replace a couple O2 sensors (heaters blew). Then in 2019 the fuel pump finally died. Prior to that it had been intermittent.

Car sat for 4-5 months. I don’t like working in the cold anymore. Around April/May would turn the key while looking at the fuel pressure every day & one day it popped up to 55 psi. Car started right up & got it up a hill into the garage. Ran for 5 minutes & died.

Opted to drop the tank as I wasn’t sure if there was any crud in the tank like I saw in one YouTube video. Turns out it was only super fine rust-color film which wiped off.

Thought about & designed a 2 fuel pump solution. Designed & modified many types of high pressure cryogenic systems prior to retiring. This was relatively easy.

The tank portion was simple using used parts from a local junkyard that had several X- & S-Types. Would have needed to add a switching valve outside the tank- too expensive. Goal was to keep it under $200.

Solution was only $89 for a pump from Walsh Enterprises. First pump assy from a Jaguar dealership had a sending unit arm that would stick around the halfway point. Head mechanic said they were all that way. (cue: record scratch)

Remember now the second fuel pump leaked fuel when I removed it from the tank when troubleshooting the loss of pressure after the hose blew off. There’s a small gasket on the bottom that works as a check valve to ensure the pump stays immersed in gas. Why? The gas keeps the pump cool. After spending $300 for a pump, I expect perfection. Returned that one too.

My original pump had a defective check valve gasket at the housing that endures the pump stayed submerged in fuel. Suspect this contributed to the premature pump failure.

Ended up making my own gasket using a .020” thick piece of Vitron, a better material imperious to gas or ethanol. The original orange gasket failed. Imagine keeping the tank above 1/2 tank would ensure the same. Would have to think about it some more.

Really got to understand the fuel system. It’s quite a design in the way it draws fuel from each side & has only one line that serves as a supply & return to the engine. It’s also a single point of failure. There are two sending units- one on each side.

There was no (expletive deleted) way I was ever gonna drop the fuel tank again. Was reluctant to cut holes, but POR sealant makes an almost permanent seal that blends in with the black paint.

Do I regret buying an X-Type. Never. I keep cars 25+ years. My 84 Volvo was on the Consumer Reports not recommended used car list. Bought it in Sweden & drove in England for a year. Best vehicle we ever owned & far easier to maintain. Rusted from within. 66 Valiant lasted to 93. Unleaded fuel was its demise. Not a single valve would hold water. 93 Civic now has over 300k miles & clutch & rear brakes. My son-in-law drives it.

Just remembered one other issue. Started the X-type one day & the temp gauge pegged & got a warning light. Was bogus because the engine was cold. Turned out a chipmunk tried making a nest near the water temp sensor & ate the wires going to the connector. An open implies overheat condition. Little rat turd. Came back once & never again. (No animals were harmed.)

Happy New Year.


 
Reply
Old Dec 18, 2023 | 10:37 PM
  #6  
Benj628's Avatar
Senior Member
Joined: Jan 2017
Posts: 179
Likes: 37
From: East Texas
Default

Digging around this forum for info on a new issue with my Jag and found this thread. On an unrelated note, in photo 5 of the original post, it seems that your windshield wipers are on backwards? Rather, the arms have been swapped for some reason. Just a casual observation.
 
Reply
Related Topics
Thread
Thread Starter
Forum
Replies
Last Post
jamwilbat
X-Type ( X400 )
17
Oct 9, 2019 06:07 PM
AndrewG
X-Type ( X400 )
2
Jul 13, 2018 10:45 PM
daro31
XK8 / XKR ( X100 )
12
Mar 9, 2017 02:51 PM
Boo
S-Type / S type R Supercharged V8 ( X200 )
18
Sep 16, 2016 04:11 PM
stshots
X-Type ( X400 )
4
Apr 18, 2011 10:59 PM

Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 

Thread Tools
Search this Thread

All times are GMT -5. The time now is 08:54 PM.