" Urgent Help Needed "--- 02' Jaguar X type "2.5L" timing Marks??
#1
02-03-2010, 07:02 PM
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" Urgent Help Needed "--- 02' Jaguar X type "2.5L" timing Marks??
trying to put an 2.5L engine together and i need the timing marks for a 2.5L engine( not a 3.0L )... the chain has no marks on it....thanX Guys....
#2
02-04-2010, 04:32 AM
Download the JTIS available on this site. There are no actual marks. The chain should have colored links that have to be lined up but you will need the precise instructions available in the JTIS. If the chains truly have no marks, oops.
#3
02-04-2010, 10:35 AM
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The JTIS does not have the 2.5L engine, is the timing marks the same as the 3.0L??
also i did try the 3.0L instructions on my 2.5L and the marks becomes off. Who ever made that JTIS is full of you know what!
did anyone have some success with the JTIS???I dont think so! from some past posts on this forum that i have read all last night, the JTIS is dead wrong on many things and should "NOT" be used to set the timing on 2.5L & 3.0L or your valves and pistons will fall in love....
#4
02-05-2010, 11:42 AM
2.5 and 3.0 are the same. I don't have a JTIS disc to verify the procedure against the current procedure on GTR but neither myself or any other tech in the shop remembers there being any errors. The procedure is complicated no doubt and there are both alignments for chain removal to avoid damage as well as alignments for installation.
Here is a brief synopsis as the GTR procedure is several pages.
Removal. Rotate crankshaft clockwise only, counterclockwise will cause damage. rotate clockwise until crank key is at 7 o'clock position mark on right intake cam at 1 o'clock exhaust at 8 o'clock. Release tensioner, remove tensioner and guides removes chain. Rotate crank clockwise to key at 11 o'clock, left intake cam mark at 9 o'clock, exhaust cam mark at 2 o'clock. Release tensioner pressure, remove tensioner and guides then chain. Turn crank until key is at 9 o'clock before any other work is done.
Installation. Make sure crank sprocket is on right way to see marks. Crank at 9 o'clock, rotate left intake cam until mark on sprocket is at 9 o'clock, rotate left exhaust cam clockwise until mark is at 2 o'clock. Rotate right intake cam clockwise to mark at 5 o'clock, rotate right exhaust cam clockwise until mark at 12 o'clock. Rotate crank until key at 11 o'clock. Install guides and chains on left making sure marks have not moved and colored links on chains are positioned at marks. Install tensioner, remove pin. Rotate crank clockwise to key at 3 o'clock. Install right guides, chain and tensioner making sure colored links are aligned with marks. Reference photo in JTIS or GTR to be sure marks are where they should be after chains are installed. Rotate crank twice clockwise to be sure pistons do not contact valves. Make sure pulse wheel goes on in correct position. Install remaining parts, check fluids, test drive.
Do not use this procedure as described here, it is incomplete. The timing mark references are exactly as written in GTR if these match the JTIS it should be correct.
I just checked both alldtata and mitchell on demand and both show the same clock positions. If you bring the car in I can do the timing chains for you. 30 hours labor at $120 per hour.
Here is a brief synopsis as the GTR procedure is several pages.
Removal. Rotate crankshaft clockwise only, counterclockwise will cause damage. rotate clockwise until crank key is at 7 o'clock position mark on right intake cam at 1 o'clock exhaust at 8 o'clock. Release tensioner, remove tensioner and guides removes chain. Rotate crank clockwise to key at 11 o'clock, left intake cam mark at 9 o'clock, exhaust cam mark at 2 o'clock. Release tensioner pressure, remove tensioner and guides then chain. Turn crank until key is at 9 o'clock before any other work is done.
Installation. Make sure crank sprocket is on right way to see marks. Crank at 9 o'clock, rotate left intake cam until mark on sprocket is at 9 o'clock, rotate left exhaust cam clockwise until mark is at 2 o'clock. Rotate right intake cam clockwise to mark at 5 o'clock, rotate right exhaust cam clockwise until mark at 12 o'clock. Rotate crank until key at 11 o'clock. Install guides and chains on left making sure marks have not moved and colored links on chains are positioned at marks. Install tensioner, remove pin. Rotate crank clockwise to key at 3 o'clock. Install right guides, chain and tensioner making sure colored links are aligned with marks. Reference photo in JTIS or GTR to be sure marks are where they should be after chains are installed. Rotate crank twice clockwise to be sure pistons do not contact valves. Make sure pulse wheel goes on in correct position. Install remaining parts, check fluids, test drive.
Do not use this procedure as described here, it is incomplete. The timing mark references are exactly as written in GTR if these match the JTIS it should be correct.
I just checked both alldtata and mitchell on demand and both show the same clock positions. If you bring the car in I can do the timing chains for you. 30 hours labor at $120 per hour.
Last edited by Real_Tech; 02-05-2010 at 11:54 AM. Reason: update
#5
02-05-2010, 11:26 PM
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2.5 and 3.0 are the same. I don't have a JTIS disc to verify the procedure against the current procedure on GTR but neither myself or any other tech in the shop remembers there being any errors. The procedure is complicated no doubt and there are both alignments for chain removal to avoid damage as well as alignments for installation.
Here is a brief synopsis as the GTR procedure is several pages.
Removal. Rotate crankshaft clockwise only, counterclockwise will cause damage. rotate clockwise until crank key is at 7 o'clock position mark on right intake cam at 1 o'clock exhaust at 8 o'clock. Release tensioner, remove tensioner and guides removes chain. Rotate crank clockwise to key at 11 o'clock, left intake cam mark at 9 o'clock, exhaust cam mark at 2 o'clock. Release tensioner pressure, remove tensioner and guides then chain. Turn crank until key is at 9 o'clock before any other work is done.
Installation. Make sure crank sprocket is on right way to see marks. Crank at 9 o'clock, rotate left intake cam until mark on sprocket is at 9 o'clock, rotate left exhaust cam clockwise until mark is at 2 o'clock. Rotate right intake cam clockwise to mark at 5 o'clock, rotate right exhaust cam clockwise until mark at 12 o'clock. Rotate crank until key at 11 o'clock. Install guides and chains on left making sure marks have not moved and colored links on chains are positioned at marks. Install tensioner, remove pin. Rotate crank clockwise to key at 3 o'clock. Install right guides, chain and tensioner making sure colored links are aligned with marks. Reference photo in JTIS or GTR to be sure marks are where they should be after chains are installed. Rotate crank twice clockwise to be sure pistons do not contact valves. Make sure pulse wheel goes on in correct position. Install remaining parts, check fluids, test drive.
Do not use this procedure as described here, it is incomplete. The timing mark references are exactly as written in GTR if these match the JTIS it should be correct.
I just checked both alldtata and mitchell on demand and both show the same clock positions. If you bring the car in I can do the timing chains for you. 30 hours labor at $120 per hour.
Here is a brief synopsis as the GTR procedure is several pages.
Removal. Rotate crankshaft clockwise only, counterclockwise will cause damage. rotate clockwise until crank key is at 7 o'clock position mark on right intake cam at 1 o'clock exhaust at 8 o'clock. Release tensioner, remove tensioner and guides removes chain. Rotate crank clockwise to key at 11 o'clock, left intake cam mark at 9 o'clock, exhaust cam mark at 2 o'clock. Release tensioner pressure, remove tensioner and guides then chain. Turn crank until key is at 9 o'clock before any other work is done.
Installation. Make sure crank sprocket is on right way to see marks. Crank at 9 o'clock, rotate left intake cam until mark on sprocket is at 9 o'clock, rotate left exhaust cam clockwise until mark is at 2 o'clock. Rotate right intake cam clockwise to mark at 5 o'clock, rotate right exhaust cam clockwise until mark at 12 o'clock. Rotate crank until key at 11 o'clock. Install guides and chains on left making sure marks have not moved and colored links on chains are positioned at marks. Install tensioner, remove pin. Rotate crank clockwise to key at 3 o'clock. Install right guides, chain and tensioner making sure colored links are aligned with marks. Reference photo in JTIS or GTR to be sure marks are where they should be after chains are installed. Rotate crank twice clockwise to be sure pistons do not contact valves. Make sure pulse wheel goes on in correct position. Install remaining parts, check fluids, test drive.
Do not use this procedure as described here, it is incomplete. The timing mark references are exactly as written in GTR if these match the JTIS it should be correct.
I just checked both alldtata and mitchell on demand and both show the same clock positions. If you bring the car in I can do the timing chains for you. 30 hours labor at $120 per hour.
If you read the JTIS, they have the Left and Right's totally wrong, from the front of the engine (Passenger Side)the first chain that goes on is the right side head not the left as says on the JTIS, also at the very end of the install instructions they say to rotate the engine to 11 O'Clock to match all marks to see if its all correct <<--- that is dead wrong, to match the marks on both Heads crank should be turned two complete turns and key at 3 O'Clock.
Ive called a local Mercedes repair shop today and i emailed them what the JTIS says and they also said its wrong..
Here is a good one ! I called FORD and they gave me instructions for a LS Engine 3.0L (what the person on the phone said its the same timming marks) , Sweet pickles! there off there rocker! they said there should be 12 chain links between the right and left intake and exhaust cam sprocket marks, 27 chain links between the cam gears and crank on the non-tensioned side of each chain, and 30 links between the cam gears and crank on the tensioned side of each chain. wrong! wrong! wrong! what school did they go to????? damn cracker jacks!
I have my chains installed correct today from my knowledge of seeing what valves are shut on #1 piston and counting links from a few pictures and so on, there also should be 14 links "Between Cam Marks" on both heads.. dont be fooled by many online websites( NOT THIS ONE )! "most" have no clue and have never done it, also never totally rely on repair manuals.
0'Well we'all live and learn i guess......
#6
02-05-2010, 11:41 PM
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oh and the GTR procedure is wrong also, your start marks are 11 o'clock and 3 o'clock not sure where they get the 9 o'clock from but thats wrong.
#7
02-06-2010, 12:21 AM
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I bet i could do it(with correct instructions)under 2hrs. and i wont break a nail or mess my hair.
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#8
02-07-2010, 11:27 AM
You should stay away from cars and manuals, no offense. The front most head right behind the radiator is the left head not the right head. No wonder you couldn't get it to work correctly. Didn't you look at the pictures? The pictures clearly show you which head is which. X-Type bank #1 rear most, right head near firewall, bank #2 front most left head nearest radiator. Remember this for future reference. The 9 o'clock position is the SAFE point where turning the camshafts will not cause valve interference with the pistons. At the end when you turn the crank to 11 o'clock the marks are not supposed to be aligned, again it is all shown with clarity in the photos with the positions of the marks and colored links clearly called out. Please stop spreading disinformation here, you are going to lead an unsuspecting DIYer down the wrong path and cause nothing but trouble. You don't even know which head is right and left. You are saying Jaguar, Alldata and Mitchell are all wrong and you are correct, unfortunately you have it all backwards.
As for Mercedes dealer giving advice on Jaguars or Jaguar repair procedures, that's just stupid. Let me relay a true story as it is current. Right now at the Jaguar dealer we have 2 Jaguars that were at a Mercedes dealer in northwest Ohio. A '97 XK8 that the Mercedes dealer put secondary timing chain tensioners on and used the incorrect bolts. The car made 15 miles before throwing the timing chains. Still waiting for someone to pony up money to repair that one. An X-type that is on my lift right now. Mercedes dealer told this poor woman she needed head gaskets. $7.00 worth of IMT o-rings later her car was fine. She said that since we saved her so much money to go ahead and do the oil pan gasket, t-case seal and a few other small maintenance items she was in need of. Total cost was still $2000 less than the "repasir" qouted by the Mercedes dealer.
If you can remove the timing cover and replace the timing chains, tensioners and guides on an X-Type in 2 hours you should be working at the dealer. You would be rich by now. Warranty time on the cover alone is 15 hours following Jaguar procedures.
As for Mercedes dealer giving advice on Jaguars or Jaguar repair procedures, that's just stupid. Let me relay a true story as it is current. Right now at the Jaguar dealer we have 2 Jaguars that were at a Mercedes dealer in northwest Ohio. A '97 XK8 that the Mercedes dealer put secondary timing chain tensioners on and used the incorrect bolts. The car made 15 miles before throwing the timing chains. Still waiting for someone to pony up money to repair that one. An X-type that is on my lift right now. Mercedes dealer told this poor woman she needed head gaskets. $7.00 worth of IMT o-rings later her car was fine. She said that since we saved her so much money to go ahead and do the oil pan gasket, t-case seal and a few other small maintenance items she was in need of. Total cost was still $2000 less than the "repasir" qouted by the Mercedes dealer.
If you can remove the timing cover and replace the timing chains, tensioners and guides on an X-Type in 2 hours you should be working at the dealer. You would be rich by now. Warranty time on the cover alone is 15 hours following Jaguar procedures.
#9
02-07-2010, 02:27 PM
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You should stay away from cars and manuals, no offense. The front most head right behind the radiator is the left head not the right head. No wonder you couldn't get it to work correctly. Didn't you look at the pictures? The pictures clearly show you which head is which. X-Type bank #1 rear most, right head near firewall, bank #2 front most left head nearest radiator. Remember this for future reference. The 9 o'clock position is the SAFE point where turning the camshafts will not cause valve interference with the pistons. At the end when you turn the crank to 11 o'clock the marks are not supposed to be aligned, again it is all shown with clarity in the photos with the positions of the marks and colored links clearly called out. Please stop spreading disinformation here, you are going to lead an unsuspecting DIYer down the wrong path and cause nothing but trouble. You don't even know which head is right and left. You are saying Jaguar, Alldata and Mitchell are all wrong and you are correct, unfortunately you have it all backwards.
As for Mercedes dealer giving advice on Jaguars or Jaguar repair procedures, that's just stupid. Let me relay a true story as it is current. Right now at the Jaguar dealer we have 2 Jaguars that were at a Mercedes dealer in northwest Ohio. A '97 XK8 that the Mercedes dealer put secondary timing chain tensioners on and used the incorrect bolts. The car made 15 miles before throwing the timing chains. Still waiting for someone to pony up money to repair that one. An X-type that is on my lift right now. Mercedes dealer told this poor woman she needed head gaskets. $7.00 worth of IMT o-rings later her car was fine. She said that since we saved her so much money to go ahead and do the oil pan gasket, t-case seal and a few other small maintenance items she was in need of. Total cost was still $2000 less than the "repasir" qouted by the Mercedes dealer.
If you can remove the timing cover and replace the timing chains, tensioners and guides on an X-Type in 2 hours you should be working at the dealer. You would be rich by now. Warranty time on the cover alone is 15 hours following Jaguar procedures.
As for Mercedes dealer giving advice on Jaguars or Jaguar repair procedures, that's just stupid. Let me relay a true story as it is current. Right now at the Jaguar dealer we have 2 Jaguars that were at a Mercedes dealer in northwest Ohio. A '97 XK8 that the Mercedes dealer put secondary timing chain tensioners on and used the incorrect bolts. The car made 15 miles before throwing the timing chains. Still waiting for someone to pony up money to repair that one. An X-type that is on my lift right now. Mercedes dealer told this poor woman she needed head gaskets. $7.00 worth of IMT o-rings later her car was fine. She said that since we saved her so much money to go ahead and do the oil pan gasket, t-case seal and a few other small maintenance items she was in need of. Total cost was still $2000 less than the "repasir" qouted by the Mercedes dealer.
If you can remove the timing cover and replace the timing chains, tensioners and guides on an X-Type in 2 hours you should be working at the dealer. You would be rich by now. Warranty time on the cover alone is 15 hours following Jaguar procedures.
"Please stop spreading disinformation here" hey cracker jack i got this info from YOUR FORUM MODERATOR from another post that someone asked about timing as well!! so who is the fool here??? QUOTE :" right chain in the picture, but referred to as the left chain in the JTIS "
https://www.jaguarforums.com/forum/s...imming+correct
I also did post saying a mercedes shop, it was very late and i had a open tab of a mercedes forum, that im bad! ITs a Euro repair shop that does jags about 5miles down from me, also for that comment made about time to do the job! i have done it 2 times in 3 1/2 hrs last saturday, if you take 30hrs to do that you should work for an old folks home. all whats needed is a 10MM wrench and get the water pump&alt(oh and the 2 bolt on the lower front cover/oil pan bolts) out of the way then all is easy and fast! so before correcting my skills correct your forum admin because i got this info from here the so called place to get help! cracker jack!
Last edited by MomWrkxonCarz2; 02-07-2010 at 02:57 PM.
#10
02-07-2010, 03:21 PM
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"Please stop spreading disinformation here, you are going to lead an unsuspecting DIYer down the wrong path and cause nothing but trouble. You don't even know which head is right and left. You are saying Jaguar, Alldata and Mitchell are all wrong and you are correct, unfortunately you have it all backwards."
hahahahahaha!!!!! Like i said i read THIS FORUMS posts all night that day!!
Here's another post saying the JTIS is dead wrong!!!!!! on TIMMING!!!! QUOTE:
Now, here's where things go to crap. After those last couple of pictures, I charged on, and assembled everything else that needed to be done in order to start the car. After MONTHS of anticipation, thousands of dollars, and
It finally fires, runs for 5-6 seconds, and stalls out with a buck, and wouldn't restart. It cranked very roughly, burped out of the intake, and just didn't sound good. The timing was off. Apparently I had too much faith in the accuracy of the JTIS timing instructions, and the advice given on the 3 liter motor blog. They're wrong. WRONG. After all of this work, I'm screwed up by someone's else bs instructions. Whoever wrote the JTIS section on timing for the X-type should HANG.
link: https://www.jaguarforums.com/forum/s...removal&page=2 POST#18
now that was from a senor member in this forum, i dont miss lead- I READ FIRST !!! IVE SEEN TONS SAYING THE JTIS IS WRONG! SO CRACKER GET DRUNK AND HAVE A GREAT DAY WATCHING YOUR FOOT BALL GAME!
#11
02-07-2010, 04:10 PM
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Quote "30hrs to do that you should work for an old folks home. all whats needed is a 10MM wrench and get the water pump&alt(oh and the 2 bolt on the lower front cover/oil pan bolts) out of the way then all is easy and fast! so before correcting my skills correct your forum admin because i got this info from here the so called place to get help! cracker jack!
Last edited by H20boy; 02-07-2010 at 04:22 PM. Reason: housekeeping :)
#12
02-07-2010, 04:22 PM
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Thread is closed, and no additional comments shall be posted here. There will be no further assistance or information on this topic...and don't start another one, forum contribution on this issue is finished.
#13
02-07-2010, 06:29 PM
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Hmmm, shoulda known with a name like momwrkxoncarz2 that there'd be problems
We won't tolerate ANYONE coming here, especially someone new with a post count of 7 being abusive to any member, let alone one of our techs who offer the information and expertise at their disposal for the benefit of all.
The abusive / harrassing behaviour is grounds for a ban from the site and momwrkxoncarz2 is therefore removed!
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