XE ( X760 ) 2015 -

Are Jaguars Selling Well Where You Live?

 
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Old 03-25-2019, 04:49 PM
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Default Are Jaguars Selling Well Where You Live?

With the bad news about Jaguar sales and JLR losing $4.4 billion in the last quarter, I thought a survey of dealer inventory would be interesting. If your local dealer has a good website, go to search new inventory and see how many leftovers they have compared to 2019 models. Also do it for just XE models. Mine in Tucson, Arizona, Royal Jaguar, has the following: 23 Jaguars from 2018 and 16 from 2019, all models. For just XE's it is 12 from 2018 and 4 from 2019. (It's not that a lot of 2019's have sold because I have been watching and there have not been very many in stock at any time.)
A quick observation would be that they aren't selling very well. I also see that all of the 2018 leftovers are discounted and none of the 2019's are discounted. Can anyone else confirm what I see? Are we worried?
 
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Old 03-25-2019, 11:02 PM
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I don't think JLR actually lost 4.4B in cash. Mostly an accounting write-off, to take advantage of the sales slump, But still a bad result
But yes, Jag XE sales are pretty dismal. Down by 50% in North America 2017-2018. About as bad in the UK too. I believe.

Toronto dealers still have 2018s for sale and I don't think some even offered 2019 MY, just clearing 2018s while waiting for the 2020MY

JLR build around 600,000 units per year but only 130,000 to 150,000 are Jags. The biggest Jag sellers are the SUV (what else!) so sedan production must be pretty low Tata, the owners of JLR, were reported in the UK business press as "very disturbed" which is probably a polite way of saying "extremely p**ssed off"

So yes maybe Jag lovers should be worried.
 
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Old 03-26-2019, 01:20 AM
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I just checked one local dealer and they have like 8 or 9 '18 XE's sitting. There is even one new 2017. One '18 is a black diesel AWD marked nine grand off MSRP. Very tempting to say the least.
 
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Old 03-26-2019, 08:38 AM
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The former finance guy at my local JLR dealer is now the GM at the Volvo dealer we recently leased our XC60 from. He sees Jaguar as not doing very well and values decreasing higher than other competing marques.

The line up currently is a bit tired. The base optioned models look too base IMO. Even a well optioned ePace looks low rent. The down market play is not a good one. Land Rover seems to be in better shape. JLR does too little to retain or reward return buyers. They turned us away from buying a new JLR at the end of our XE lease.
 
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Old 04-01-2019, 08:16 AM
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While we were buying our 2017 XE, we were talking to the dealer general manager. Sales at the dealership are approximately 70/30 70% Land Rover 30% Jaguar. Jaguars best seller is the F-Pace, with sedan sales down. GM did say they are doing better business at the moment with Certified PreOwned Jaguars. GM said it's cyclical. I can't see this as healthy sales. She said they sold roughly 22 Land Rovers and 7 or 8 Jaguars for March.
 
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Old 04-01-2019, 09:37 AM
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Originally Posted by mosesbotbol View Post
The former finance guy at my local JLR dealer is now the GM at the Volvo dealer we recently leased our XC60 from. He sees Jaguar as not doing very well and values decreasing higher than other competing marques.

The line up currently is a bit tired. The base optioned models look too base IMO. Even a well optioned ePace looks low rent. The down market play is not a good one. Land Rover seems to be in better shape. JLR does too little to retain or reward return buyers. They turned us away from buying a new JLR at the end of our XE lease.
I will have to respectfully disagree on the line up looking tired. Maybe the XJ has been around a while but the XE and XF are the most modern looking sedans on the market in my opinion. Just curious how they turned you away?

On another note, does anyone know what car dealers do with new stock cars that they just can't sell?
 
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Old 04-01-2019, 10:01 AM
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Originally Posted by AJ16er View Post
On another note, does anyone know what car dealers do with new stock cars that they just can't sell?
I would guess they do what my dealer did. They reduced it $8000 and when they reduced it an additional $3000 I jumped on it. I don't think JLR made a profit off me but a dealer can't have 1 or 2 year old cars sitting around. They paid for them and need to get their money back, or at least most of their money back.
In my case, they didn't have any explanation for why it hadn't sold--it was exactly what I would have ordered. But it doesn't look good to have 2018s on the lot and 2019s on the way when there's a 2017 still sitting there. Mine was the last leftover they had.
 
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Old 04-01-2019, 10:55 AM
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Originally Posted by AZBob View Post
I would guess they do what my dealer did. They reduced it $8000 and when they reduced it an additional $3000 I jumped on it. I don't think JLR made a profit off me but a dealer can't have 1 or 2 year old cars sitting around. They paid for them and need to get their money back, or at least most of their money back.
In my case, they didn't have any explanation for why it hadn't sold--it was exactly what I would have ordered. But it doesn't look good to have 2018s on the lot and 2019s on the way when there's a 2017 still sitting there. Mine was the last leftover they had.
There is a left-over XE diesel AWD for $38k grand at a Chicago area dealer. A fully loaded Camry or Accord costs close to that. These cars are a really hot buy.
 
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Old 04-01-2019, 02:29 PM
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Originally Posted by AJ16er View Post
Just curious how they turned you away?
You really think the XF and XE are most modern looking sedans on the market???

There were two cars I would've driven off on that day; a Velar in the showroom and an Evoque Convertible on the lot that they would not discount $50 on either. The salesman said JLR does nothing for returning customers, nor did they have any lease incentives for returning customers. Between my and my family; we've owned a dozen Jags... It doesn't take much for me to stay with the marque. He said I would have to eat two months of lease payments for me to trade in my car. Volvo discounted their car and they paid me 5 months of my remaining lease.

I could've leased an XF Sportbrake at another dealer at good rate. They were discounting the car over 20K, but we went to the Volvo dealer first that day and that was that. No one is buying the Sportbrake apparently.
 
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Old 04-01-2019, 03:34 PM
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Originally Posted by mosesbotbol View Post
You really think the XF and XE are most modern looking sedans on the market???

There were two cars I would've driven off on that day; a Velar in the showroom and an Evoque Convertible on the lot that they would not discount $50 on either. The salesman said JLR does nothing for returning customers, nor did they have any lease incentives for returning customers. Between my and my family; we've owned a dozen Jags... It doesn't take much for me to stay with the marque. He said I would have to eat two months of lease payments for me to trade in my car. Volvo discounted their car and they paid me 5 months of my remaining lease.

I could've leased an XF Sportbrake at another dealer at good rate. They were discounting the car over 20K, but we went to the Volvo dealer first that day and that was that. No one is buying the Sportbrake apparently.
Landrovers are hot sellers in general so it's not at all surprising they wouldn't budge on the price. At least they were honest with you about eating your lease payments. I know somebody that got ripped off by a Nissan dealer. She had a leased Altima with three of four payments left and went in to look at the current model. The salesman told her that they would cover the remaining payments if she leased the new model. She did that and then Nissan was demanding payments for the old car. The scamming dealer insisted he never told her they'd wrap up her old lease. Total lie because she'd have never taken the new car had that been the case. So for several months she was paying for two cars. Customer loyalty obviously means zero to them.

If you're happy with your Volvo then I am happy for you. However, if it was my purchase I would have shopped around or went straight for the Sportbrake. I am particular in what I want, even if it means paying more than what I would for another make and model.
 
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Old 04-01-2019, 07:27 PM
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Iím not an XE owner, rather an old XJ owner. The reason these cars become so cheap as they age is that the warranty gets closer to expiration. Your ďnewĒ 2017 surely started the warranty clock in 2017, maybe late 2016. So you have two years less coverage.

TBH Jaguars are not known as the most reliable cars (though I think post 2014 they got a little better). Which wouldnít be the end of the world if the cost of parts/ labor werenít so ridiculous. No problem under warranty.

Though Jags are awesome vehicles. No one wants to buy a used car that costs the price of a new one because of repair costs. So massive depreciation occurs on them as they come off of warranty. Thatís why you see mostly DIYers owning the old Jags. You need deep pockets to play this game.

If Jag wants to improve resale value they need to improve reliability (I think they are trying) and reduce the pricing in their parts catalog. They should also stop ďin servicingĒ new vehicles before they are first sold.

Land Rover has the coolest SUVs, which is just a hot market. They have been a big player in upscale SUVs forever. They havenít been as adversely affected by their reliability issues. Perhaps sales would be even higher though if they figure it out.

I really hope Jaguar continues to improve sales, reliability, and value because they make beautiful cars. Furthermore it will be really interesting to see how they do reliability-wise with the new electric power train.
 
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Old 04-01-2019, 08:00 PM
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Originally Posted by AJ16er View Post
..... I know somebody that got ripped off by a Nissan dealer. She had a leased Altima with three of four payments left and went in to look at the current model. The salesman told her that they would cover the remaining payments if she leased the new model. She did that and then Nissan was demanding payments for the old car. The scamming dealer insisted he never told her they'd wrap up her old lease. Total lie because she'd have never taken the new car had that been the case. So for several months she was paying for two cars. Customer loyalty obviously means zero to them.
Verryyy familiar....We had a similar experience a year ago with a local Nissan dealer. Turned in an Altima on a new Maxima. Altima had 2 months left on lease and dealer stated they would pay off those months.
About a month later, we started getting notices from Nissan that we owed for the 2 months..we ignored them. Later, we started getting phone calls then notices from a company that we owed the money, still ignored them.
Their problem was that their financial documents had different numbers than our original Altima lease had on the residual value. Pure phony numbers, easy to ignore.
 

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Old 04-01-2019, 08:07 PM
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Originally Posted by Nedoerr View Post
Iím not an XE owner, rather an old XJ owner. The reason these cars become so cheap as they age is that the warranty gets closer to expiration. Your ďnewĒ 2017 surely started the warranty clock in 2017, maybe late 2016. So you have two years less coverage.
Nope. Warranty starts on the first sale of the car. I have 5 full years.
 
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Old 04-01-2019, 09:22 PM
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Originally Posted by AJ16er View Post
Landrovers are hot sellers in general so it's not at all surprising they wouldn't budge on the price. At least they were honest with you about eating your lease payments. I know somebody that got ripped off by a Nissan dealer. She had a leased Altima with three of four payments left and went in to look at the current model. The salesman told her that they would cover the remaining payments if she leased the new model. She did that and then Nissan was demanding payments for the old car. The scamming dealer insisted he never told her they'd wrap up her old lease. Total lie because she'd have never taken the new car had that been the case. So for several months she was paying for two cars. Customer loyalty obviously means zero to them.

If you're happy with your Volvo then I am happy for you. However, if it was my purchase I would have shopped around or went straight for the Sportbrake. I am particular in what I want, even if it means paying more than what I would for another make and model.
Evoque Convertible is hardly a hot seller. When was the last time you saw one on the road? The Volvo dealership cut me a check for my remaining payments for me to do as I wished. I still have the XE since it's paid for until June. Wife was more into the Volvo. I am just the one who pays & maintains it all... Dollar for dollar, Volvo has Jaguar beat on quality materials, but Jaguar has a better suspension and more thrill to drive. Paint job on the XE was nothing to write home about. Each newer Jaguar I buy, the paint is less and less. Especially on the down market lines like the XE. XK had a much more attention to detail on the painting. The Volvo is leased, so JLR will be in contention again. By then, I hope Lotus comes out with their SUV.
 
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Old 04-01-2019, 10:29 PM
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Originally Posted by AZBob View Post
Nope. Warranty starts on the first sale of the car. I have 5 full years.
Im thrilled to hear that (and surprised). Did you check the first in-service date of the vehicle? A lot of times people get a big surprise when they find out it actually started before the sale. Itís VERY common practice (at least it was). Iíd be very happy to learn that they stopped the practice.
 
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Old 04-01-2019, 11:34 PM
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Originally Posted by Nedoerr View Post

TBH Jaguars are not known as the most reliable cars (though I think post 2014 they got a little better). Which wouldnít be the end of the world if the cost of parts/ labor werenít so ridiculous. No problem under warranty.

Though Jags are awesome vehicles. No one wants to buy a used car that costs the price of a new one because of repair costs. So massive depreciation occurs on them as they come off of warranty. Thatís why you see mostly DIYers owning the old Jags. You need deep pockets to play this game.

If Jag wants to improve resale value they need to improve reliability (I think they are trying) and reduce the pricing in their parts catalog. They should also stop ďin servicingĒ new vehicles before they are first sold.

Land Rover has the coolest SUVs, which is just a hot market. They have been a big player in upscale SUVs forever. They havenít been as adversely affected by their reliability issues. Perhaps sales would be even higher though if they figure it out.

I really hope Jaguar continues to improve sales, reliability, and value because they make beautiful cars. Furthermore it will be really interesting to see how they do reliability-wise with the new electric power train.
Any foreign premium brand will have high cost of parts and labor. Parts for high end VW's like the Touareg and Phaeton are way up there. Just find an independent Jaguar specialist for labor and you'll be fine. Servicing one of these cars at the dealer after warranty is where many run into trouble.

Owning an older premium vehicle does make sense. Let's look at a 2011 XJ which had a base MSRP of $74k. You can get them now for under twenty thousand. Even if you had to spend $5k a year on repairs it would take you roughly a decade to spend in repairs what the original owner last in depreciation in 8 years. Of course odds are that you won't spend that much, some years you might only do oil changes and a brake job. Save for some catastrophic failure like an engine or transmission chances are you'll be way ahead of the 8 ball. It gets even better if you look at a competitor vehicle such as a '11 S Class. Those started at just over $90k new and are under twenty thousand now. Most consumers don't think like this though. The moment they have to pay to repair a used vehicle they panic and think they are getting "money pitted." I guess they'd rather lose money silently via massive depreciation.

The value factor certainly is there with Jaguar - look at the XJ vs S Class new msrp.
 

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Old 04-01-2019, 11:40 PM
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Originally Posted by Jayt2 View Post
Verryyy familiar....We had a similar experience a year ago with a local Nissan dealer. Turned in an Altima on a new Maxima. Altima had 2 months left on lease and dealer stated they would pay off those months.
About a month later, we started getting notices from Nissan that we owed for the 2 months..we ignored them. Later, we started getting phone calls then notices from a company that we owed the money, still ignored them.
Their problem was that their financial documents had different numbers than our original Altima lease had on the residual value. Pure phony numbers, easy to ignore.
Lesson learned, always get everything in writing from car dealers as we learned at Bob Rohrman Nissan in Arlington Heights, Illinois.
 
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Old 04-01-2019, 11:49 PM
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Originally Posted by mosesbotbol View Post
Evoque Convertible is hardly a hot seller. When was the last time you saw one on the road? The Volvo dealership cut me a check for my remaining payments for me to do as I wished. I still have the XE since it's paid for until June. Wife was more into the Volvo. I am just the one who pays & maintains it all... Dollar for dollar, Volvo has Jaguar beat on quality materials, but Jaguar has a better suspension and more thrill to drive. Paint job on the XE was nothing to write home about. Each newer Jaguar I buy, the paint is less and less. Especially on the down market lines like the XE. XK had a much more attention to detail on the painting. The Volvo is leased, so JLR will be in contention again. By then, I hope Lotus comes out with their SUV.
You're correct regarding that particular model. Convertible SUV's always seemed a rather goofy concept to me. Nissan tried one and failed. I think Suzuki was the only company that ever pulled it off with their Samurai. I am guessing you purchased an XC90? What problems did you notice with the paintwork on newer Jags?
 
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Old 04-02-2019, 01:03 AM
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Originally Posted by AJ16er View Post
Any foreign premium brand will have high cost of parts and labor. Parts for high end VW's like the Touareg and Phaeton are way up there. Just find an independent Jaguar specialist for labor and you'll be fine. Serving one of these cars at the dealer after warranty is where many run into trouble.

Owning an older premium vehicle does make sense. Let's look at a 2011 XJ which had a base MSRP of $74k. You can get them now for under twenty thousand. Even if you had to spend $5k a year on repairs it would take you roughly a decade to spend in repairs what the original owner last in depreciation in 8 years. Of course odds are that you won't spend that much, some years you might only do oil changes and a brake job. Save for some catastrophic failure like an engine or transmission chances are you'll be way ahead of the 8 ball. It gets even better if you look at a competitor vehicle such as a '11 S Class. Those started at just over $90k new and are under twenty thousand now. Most consumers don't think like this though. The moment they have to pay to repair a used vehicle they panic and think they are getting "money pitted." I guess they'd rather lose money silently via massive depreciation.

The value factor certainly is there with Jaguar - look at the XJ vs S Class new msrp.
Fair point, though I donít deny it is cheaper than buying a brand new XJ. People buying such used cars though arenít the same people who can afford the new car. Most people buy the most car they can afford. The big repair bills keep away these buyers from the used market. This drives depreciation. Jaguar tried to reduce this issue by extending the warranty to 5 years starting in 2016. Itís a good start.

Similar to your calculations, my XJ was under $20k last year, and it will cost me $8k-$10k using an independent shop and sourcing parts myself as much as possible to bring it up to top shape. Thatís a lot for a sub-$20k car. And thatís exactly why it is sub $20k car. Iím half-way there on the fix-up. It will probably take me another year before I finish it (I need to drive the car some too).

I think the XE could work out well because of the lower starting price. Repairs should be less expensive. Though the sedan market sounds like its headed for rough waters. Fingers crossed.
 
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Old 04-02-2019, 01:41 AM
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I'm driving an XE coming up to 2 years old. Whilst it is basically true what AJ16er says, the plain fact is I just got fed up with constant suspension bushes replacement on my 2007 XJ6. Their service life was pretty dreadful. So when this 2017 XE Portfolio on 10k miles came up at the local dealer for half the price of a new one, and they gave me a decent trade-in, I decided to buy it. So I have two years warranty. Now I have no air suspension to have nightmares about, and the ride is perfectly acceptable.
 
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