Nor do they have unlimited time to track down answer to obscure questions. The OP pretty much screwed himself by stating that he wanted the info so he could go out and buy aftermarket parts. I think the old saying is 'One fool can ask enough questions to keep a hundred wise men too busy to answer them all'.

There also strict guidelines as to what info can and cannot be released. I once had a customer referred to me who was asking for a full set of engineering drawings so that he could manufacture his own parts and save some money.

 

Which is where the conversation often gets muddied.



The individual dealership plays a huge role in these situations. Different dealers have different stances....which themselves can be influenced by the type of relationship they have with any given customer. Or the relationship they have with the manufacturer. In your transmission bearing failure scenario the dealership could simply ignore that is has a short shifter installed, or make the determination that the shifter has no bearing (sorry!) on the bearing failure. Or....they could dig their heels in and make a big deal out of it.

My personal experience (30 years in various dealership service and parts departments) is that "the factory" does not want dealerships casually denying warranty repairs. The rule of thumb was to "not go there" unless absolutely 110% sure that the claim should be denied due to abuse, racing, modifications, etc. If there was a grey zone, the customer gets the benefit of the doubt.

Of course that's ^^^^ a broad-strokes commentary on my part. Manufacturers' philosophies can vary ...even from region to region and/or in accordance with other business conditions. For example, if a particular region was under the gun for unusually high warranty expense the factory might push those dealers into taking a harder line on warranty decisions. Meanwhile, dealers or regions with low warranty expense might be treated with a more laissez faire attitude. Sometimes customers benefitted. Other times they were, well, punished.

And different 'factory reps' have different levels of intensity regarding warranty policies. Getting a factory rep involved in a dispute can be risky as you never know if he/she is having a bad day or not.

As far as outright voiding a warranty goes I've personally only seen that happen when the car has been in a flood or has a 'rebuilt' or 'salvage' brand on the title.


Cheers
DD

 

My SWMBO was such a factory rep and gained an excellent reputation of always being fair and reasonable, no matter what kind of mood I put her in.

 

IME most reps were good; fair and reasonable, as you say.

Sometimes newbies don't know how, where, when, and why to either be flexible ...or tough.... as the situation demanded. At the dealership level we used to dread having to 'train' newbie factory reps.

Sometime the depth and breadth of a product problem became large enough that a corporate policy is developed to address it....which takes the decision making ability away from individual reps.

It's a crazy business, and difficult. I could go on forever. But I'll spare everyone I'll just say that getting out of that line of work has had a hugely positive influence on my life!

Cheers
DD

 

Personally, I think car price should play into this as well. If I am talking about warranty on a $100K+ car, dealer and manufacturer should go out of their way to help me. $20K car on other hand, I can understand if they look for mods and signs of wrongdoing.

One aspect that not often talked is dispute process. Some states have lemon laws, other places have vehicle arbitration boards. I would be curious to hear insider opinion if dispute process is worthwhile? My personal opinion is that any arbitration is heavily stacked against the consumer. Lemon laws on other hand favor consumers.

 

A buddy had two new Mercedes lemons in row and was able to return them (in MA) quite easily. MA laws are usually stacked in favor of the auto dealer, but the Lemon Law works both sides. Makes it easy to dispute a bad car, but makes it hard for a consumer to sell a non-warrantied car private party.

 

Thing about Lemon Law settlements is that they depreciate your payback for mileage driven.

In Texas we have the Texas Fair Trade act, which in the event of multiple failures in the first two years (and giving the dealer three shots to fix it), if the problem is not resolved, one can get ALL the original purchase price of the car back. It has to happen in the first two years of ownership.

 

My buddy (had CLS Mercedes), the dealer just replaced with the same car, no out of pocket expense on him. I believe it's a 90 day window for our Lemon Law and they don't depreciate it, but could be wrong on that one...

 

To stay on track, the OP has not had warranty denied on anything nor has there been any problems with the car.

A tempest in a teapot.

 

Official Statement from the FTC Here:

"The Magnuson-Moss Warranty Act makes it illegal for companies to void your warranty or deny coverage under the warranty simply because you used an aftermarket or recycled part.

The manufacturer or dealer can, however, require consumers to use select parts if those parts are provided to consumers free of charge under the warranty.

Still, if it turns out that the aftermarket or recycled part was itself defective or wasn't installed correctly, and it causes damage to another part that is covered under the warranty, the manufacturer or dealer has the right to deny coverage for that part and charge you for any repairs. The FTC says the manufacturer or dealer must show that the aftermarket or recycled part caused the need for repairs before denying warranty coverage."


https://www.consumer.ftc.gov/article...ne-maintenance


Please pay particular attention to " dealer must show that the aftermarket or recycled part caused the need for repairs before denying warranty coverage. " This means a dealer can't refuse on the possibility your mod caused damage, it must be an independently demonstrable and reproducible fact.


Again, it means it is incumbent on the Manufacturer to PROVE the afternarket part caused additional damage, BEFORE denying warranty, or the dealer would be in violation of the Law. They can't just "say" its a problem...they have to prove it. A suggestion that your mod "could" be responsible is NOT enough for them to legally deny service. It MUST be proven.


Simple actually...

 

They can just say it. Then you have to seek enforcement under the Act to make them prove it. Not so simple.

 

Of course a dealer can "Say" anything...this does not mean it a 100 Pct fact. Don't believe everything a Dealer tells you, please. That's common sense.

Those of us who know our consumer rights under the law can force the issue in Mediation or Court, and again it is almost impossible for the manufacturer to defend.

The consumer has the implied rights, not the dealer. Dealer MUST prove it. If one had to take them to court, so be it, the Manufacturer will end up paying all lawyer and court fees when found guilty. My lawyer successfully fought this "Dealer resistance" in mediation, and won. The dealer ended up spending about $100K in total, and still lost.

It WAS a huge pain in the butt, and took a year. But again, the law is on your side, and that's my point.


https://www.consumer.ftc.gov/article...ne-maintenance

 

I think that's what Booklaw1 meant when he said "Not so simple"




Cheers
DD

 

The article discusses use of aftermarket parts or shops for routine servicing. I'm 99.99% sure that every dealer service department and zone rep is aware of this.

I'm sure the same principles of FTC regulation apply to *modifications* but it would be nice to see it spelled out specifically



In my dealership days that was a given, and it came down very clearly from the manufacturers. Don't deny a warranty claim without proof. And it better be good proof, too, as manufacturer reps didn't enjoy opening hornet's nests on a casual basis.

Cheers
DD

 

Just thought I would weigh in here, from a different perspective.

On xmas day my XE was involved in a small accident. Wife and I were driving home and a (beleive it or not) bobcat crossed the road at some insane speed while I was in the middle of a corner on the interstate... no way I was dodging that thing. The damage was fairly minimal but JLR went out of their way to find someone who could tow the car on xmas day (at midnight no less) and someone to pick us up and take us the remaining 100 miles back home to Austin.

Fast forward to the repair process... the insurance company (sounds like gecko) refused to pay the full fees at the only JLR approved body shop in all of Austin. Now, I have the legal right to choose whatever shop I want, and because this was the only approved shop, I was obligated by the warranty to choose this specific shop. Not to mention, I personally don't want some freshman mechanic with no knowledge of Jags doing any kind of diagnostic/repair work on my brand new car.

So I got into a huge argument with them about it, took it all the way to the corporate level at the insurance company to no avail. Eventually, I got the geckos to admit that in some cases, the repair of a vehicle by non-authorized parties could void the warranty. They said I had no proof that this was actually true in my specific situation though. So I thought hey, maybe JLR can help me with this?

So I called JLR, and they have a whole department dedicated to dealing with this sh*t. When I told JLR what was going on, they actually wrote a letter on my behalf to the amphibian insurance company explaining that the repair of the vehicle, especially the aluminum body panels and glass suspension components, by any non-approved shop MAY void the warranty.

I sent that letter to the insurance company, but they just ignored it. Argued with the sh*ts for several hours to no avail. Because the difference in out-of-pocket cost in my case was only a few hundred dollars, I deemed it not worth fighting any more at that point and just payed the difference in shop fees myself.

So while I agree that it sucks that the official JLR stance on non-warranty repairs and parts makes modification more risky, it can also work in our favor in some cases. I would guess I'd have won this if I decided to take it to court... especially in a state that is more friendly to consumers (TX is notoriously pro-insurance and almost never rules in favor of the insured).

 

Best advice borrowed from site below. "If your manufacturer or dealer tells you that your warranty is void or able to be voided due to third party accessories or service, ask him for the Federal Trade Commission determination supporting the claim."

myjag1 posted about a cool video device....reading the site at navtool.com I came across this, yet another manufacturer who draws a distinct line in the sand. I doubt they will hire a lawyer for you (For instance K&N filters offers free lawyers/representation in this matter when you buy their product.)

Warranty Legal Information

Warranty Concerns Why installing NavTool interface has no effect on vehicle warranty? Vehicle owners are often confused regarding the effect installation and service of third party accessories has on warranty. This confusion often is the result of intentionally misleading information intended to convince you that only the manufacturer or authorized dealer should service your vehicle.

This practice is also known as "Tie-In Sales" Provisions. Legally tie-in sales provisions are not allowed. These provisions require an owner of the warranted product to buy an item or service from a particular company to use with the warranted product in order to be eligible to receive a remedy under the warranty. For example, in order to keep your new vehicles warranty in effect, you must use genuine parts. Failure to have scheduled maintenance performed, at your expense, by the dealership voids this warranty.


What does the law say?

Under the Magnuson-Moss Warranty Improvement Act, a vehicle manufacturer may not make its vehicle warranty conditional on the use of any brand of video interfaces unless the manufacturer provides the system free of charge or the Federal Trade Commission (FTC) has specifically published that only the vehicle manufacturer’s product may be used. To challenge a false claim, ask the person to put it in writing, or request the vehicle manufacturer’s video interface free of charge. If you are charged for the video interface, or they refuse to give you a written statement, there may be a violation of Federal law.
This is the actual language of the act:

"No warrantor of a consumer product may condition his written or implied warranty of such product on the consumer’s using, in connection with such product, any article or service (other than article or service provided without charge under the terms of the warranty) which is identified by brand, trade, or corporate name; except that the prohibition of this sub-section may be waived by the Commission if—

(1) the warrantor satisfies the Commission that the warranted product will function properly only if the article or service so identified is used in connection with the warranted product, and

(2) the Commission finds that such a waiver is in the public interest.

The district courts of the United States shall have jurisdiction of any action brought by the Attorney General (in his capacity as such), or by the Commission by any of its attorneys designated by it for such purpose, to restrain (A) any warrantor from making a deceptive warranty with respect to a consumer product, or (B) any person from failing to comply with any requirement imposed on such person or pursuant to this chapter or from violating any prohibition contained in this chapter."

Complete Information on Magnuson-Moss Warranty act
https://www.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magnuson-Moss_Warranty_Act


What does this mean to consumer?

Purchasing and having accessories installed in your vehicle does not void your warranty unless the manufacturer has been able to convince the Federal Trade Commission that the installation and/or service will cause a malfunction to the vehicle and the restriction is in the public interest. These are difficult tests to meet, especially since the public is economically and technologically ahead through third party accessory options. If your manufacturer or dealer tells you that your warranty is void or able to be voided due to third party accessories or service, ask him for the Federal Trade Commission determination supporting the claim.

You may even want to call the FTC yourself.

For more information, please contact
the Federal Trade Commission in your area: Atlanta, GA:
(404) 656-1399 Boston, MA: (617) 424-5960 Chicago, IL:
(312) 353-4423 Cleveland, OH:
(216) 522-4207 Denver, CO:
(303) 844-2271 New York City, NY:
(310) 235-4000 San Francisco, CA: (451) 356-5270

 

Geico is ****. I had to deal with them once when someone hit my car (not my Jag), and I had to wait almost 3 weeks for them to admit it was their drivers fault, even though the police determined it was.

I have state farm and have nothing but praise for them. When I had to use them I could use any shop I want, no BS at all. My agent even knew some good body shops. With state farm I actually ended up paying less for my Jaguar than I did my VW GTI.

 

i can almost certainly assure you this was not jaguar but the dealer doing this. If you think jaguars attitude is go pound sand, imo you would be wrong. I have worked on these cars for 2 decades and seen them bend over backwards where is some instances they should have told people to take off, but they did not. In every case will owners be happy? No. But compared to people i know that are associated with other brands, jaguar is very supportive. Don't confuse a dealers response with jaguar. And jaguar does depend on the dealership to advise etc. Jaguar didn't see that spliced antenna, the tech at the dealer did so you could say "that person" was the issues origination. Someone that comes out of left field with a lawyer statement i would just turn around and walk away. Why would i want to go out of my way to help anyone like this. Like my mother always said.
"you catch bees with sweet honey and flies with shyt" and i have found this very true in my 55 years. I have had people go out of their way to help with the right attitude and communication. Imo you just seem to be picking a fight in order to start another lawsuit lottery case.

 

In regards to the antenna splice example, fellow good-intent forum members have clarified the circuit may have been shorted due to voltages that are run through the GPS antenna. In that particular example it was later clarified in this thread it was the installer's fault.

Yes, every dealership is different.

The last thing I want is a lawsuit...It is an unplesant and potentially expensive endeavor.

But I sure as hell won't allow Jaguar to invalidate my manufacturers' warranty if I simply tune the engines HP on my own. This is my main sticking point with them.

I don't approach Jaguar with shxt attiude to begin with. I approached JAGUAR USA/ Corporate professionally and directly regarding aftermarket tuning the 6cyl engine to 380HP as is found in the F-Pace, and they flipped out@! Immediately Jag Corporate USA began to intimidate me by saying my tune may invalidate my warranty. Ipso Facto Jaguar Corporate seems to find a way to step in the shxt just fine on their own....

The relevant point to today's post was "Purchasing and having accessories installed in your vehicle does not void your warranty unless the manufacturer has been able to convince the Federal Trade Commission that the installation and/or service will cause a malfunction to the vehicle and the restriction is in the public interest. These are difficult tests to meet, especially since the public is economically and technologically ahead through third party accessory options. If your manufacturer or dealer tells you that your warranty is void or able to be voided due to third party accessories or service, ask him for the Federal Trade Commission determination supporting the claim."

IMHO this is an excellent tactic...only to be used as a last ditch effort. Of course approaching with a cooperative attitude is best. Thanks for all your excellent points.

 

So you would use someone else's tune and try to stick Jag with the bill if it all goes wrong. Do a search for user JVIII and see how well that worked for him on his F-type.

You like making life difficult for yourself I think.