Hello All.

I am in communication with Jaguar USA corporate to get definitions of the color coding used on their suspension springs. (There are five sub-models for the XE, and I'm attempting to nail down the differences.)

When they found out I wanted to lower my springs using another product they "threw me some shade"...immediately becoming less than cooperative and saying they will only share with me what my specific colors were, and nothing more.

They then threw this legal statement at me: "alteration or modification of the vehicle, including changes to the body, chassis, or any tampering with the vehicle, tampering with the emissions systems or with other parts that affect these systems may impact coverage of your factory warranty for those items impacted."

This Jaguar statement seems to be a deliberate and illegal threat....IMHO it's literally the "Conditioning" of our warranty, a monopolistic practice that BMW was recently sued for, and lost, for enforcing exactly the same monopolistic business practice.

In 2015 the FTC fought BMW for our rights to use third party parts without invalidating the manufacturer warranty...and won.

Short quote here:

"BMW of North America LLC has agreed to settle Federal Trade Commission charges that its MINI Division violated the Magnuson-Moss Warranty Act by telling consumers that BMW would void their warranty unless they used MINI parts and MINI dealers to perform maintenance and repair work."

https://www.ftc.gov/news-events/pres...ly-conditioned

I have consulted an attorney and he confirms this precedent setting case gives us consumers certain rights that can easily be argued in court.

On a personal note, Lawyers are hungry for these cases as consumers are well protected. See the lawyers perspective here:

http://www.jtexconsumerlaw.com/V11N3/JCCL_Magnuson.pdf

Like the TV tagline says "The More you Know".....

I really think Jaguar has a very long way to go to improve their customer relations, this "Corporate Positioning" is part of the Company's growing reputation problem. It's all about profits for them...it's all about the money grab and not the customers satisfaction at Jaguar.

https://www.consumeraffairs.com/automotive/jaguar.html

 

Well, it sounds to me that they are being extra careful.

Their statement says that it "may" impact the warranty which is true. If you install aftermarket supercharger that has twice the volume than the current one, and as a result, your engine starts to have issues, that modification should impact your warranty right?

As for them being not cooperative with color coding, I am not sure what the reason might be.

Thanks for bringing the BMW case up. I have not heard about it. It does sound like an interesting read.

 

If you read what they actually sent you, it has MAY in it and explicitly references modifications. That is, to translate into plain language - warranty won't cover your mods and potential damage these modes do to the car.

To me, that makes sense. Did you expect something different?

 

Apparently so.

The OP is free to modify his car in any way he sees fit, just don't expect Jag to pay warranty if these mods cause a problem.

Ref. Jag running around digging up technical specs on components, I'm surprised he got as much as he did. Be happy.

 

I don't see Jaguar doing anything wrong in the example. Did you get the info you needed in the end?

 

Did y'all see the BMW statement I referenced above from the FTC?

My humble opinion is that to me, the consumer, this Jaguar statement reads as a threat, an intimidation tactic.

Combined with Jaguars unwillingness to share information about all the parts that are in the database for this specific model...that's a real example of "active and deliberate" interference that looks like a monopolistic practice too.

I understand their point, but their policy is literally encroaching on our consumer rights.

Of course if a mod exceeds specifications...you're on your own, thats reasonable.

But Jaguar cannot threaten or tell me that they "might" void my warranty if I change from OEM tires, wheels, battery, spark plugs, or even shocks/springs.

If the physical stance of the car was altered and it scraped, of course It would be on me, same as if I crashed the car.

Jaguar still will not share the differneces in the five part choices available for my car, so no, we did not get a satisfactory answer, and they are pissing off the customer in the process.

In the sweeping statement Jaguar is referring to exempting mechanical failure of OTHER systems in the car, not just the part that was replaced.

Many companies will deliberately make these grey area decisions in their own favor, and do a cost analysis of risk/ROI, counting on the public to cave in 99.9 pct of the time, and taking the others to arbitration.

I've personally been through this "Gatekeeping" process with a huge Japanese auto company just a few years ago, where the company agents just towed the party line. I sued, and arbitration resulted in a favorable ruling in my direction because the Auto company was clearly outside the Law in Texas.

This Jaguar intimidation tactic will look very bad for them if they get taken to court.

The fact that they will not share the differences in the five parts that are recommended for this model (PARTS BY JAGUAR), and the transparent threats simply begins the groundwork in my favor if they refuse warranty work and I have to take them to Arbitration.

I believe it is unreasonable for them NOT to share the color coding used to differentiate the parts. This is one reason they get such horrible customer sat ratings.

 

But they don't, aside from a tiny minority of unreasonable and unrealistic owners.

 

I think you are reading too much into it. Set it aside and come back to this week later and see if you still feel this way.

In this specific case, I would consider litigation a waste of time and money.

You are right, but unreasonable is not necessary illegal. My guess you will have very hard time proving damages due to lack of disclosure. Instead, I suggest visiting local dealership parts counter and talking with parts guy there. This ways, you will likely be able to determine color coding without paying any legal fees.

 

Thanks go to all for your responses.

I've been contacted by a couple other owners already about similar situations. The Gross example I can share is when an owner added another GPS device to his car, the stereo installer spliced into the existing fin antenna wiring in the trunk, to use the car's already integrated antenna.

This worked excellent for about a year, then his Radio failed. Jaguar wanted another $2000.00 to replace the entire radio because the antenna had been spliced.

This is a specific example of Jaguars bad corporate overreach.

The fact is if I accumulate enough of these gross examples with willing witnesses (and most are) together totaling more than $50K in claims for a class action, this will get elevated to Federal Court. Two more like this and we are there, if necessary, as claims also include attorney fees.

So, if Jaguar hassles any of you regarding warranty exceptions, PM me.

 

Jaguar is under no obligation, contractual or otherwise, to disclose the sort of technical information the OP is looking for.

Having been on the other side of the fence (as a career OEM employee) this sort of aggressive behaviour and threat of lawsuit just makes it tough for the 99.9% of owners who are reasonable with their requests.

Hint-hint?

 

If the radio failed because of the bast*rdized antenna, Jag was correct in denying warranty.

 

Agreed

 

I think the main reason to buy a new car is to benefit from warranty. You eat depreciation and they promise that they will keep the car running for couple years without asking you to pay for keeping it on the road.

If you want to mod the car, wouldn't it be much cheaper to buy off-the-lease car and start modding it? Savings quite likely will pay for both mods and most issues that come up.

Now, there isn't 'mod scene' for Jaguars, and Jags tend to be on a pricier side. So this isn't quite apples to apples comparison. Still, Honda Civics, Subaru WRX, and Ford Mustangs are notorious for bolt-on ricing. You'd have young guys bolting-on all kinds of unreasonable mods then asking dealership to buy them new engine, new transmission, and new suspension. How is that fair to manufacturer or other consumers that will inevitably will have to pay more to cover such spurious warranty claims?

 

On Splicing GPS antenna. I don't know if this is the case with Jaguar, I can't be bothered to look it up. However, generic GPS antenna in automotive use is 'active' and would be operating with a supply of 1.8V (and max at about 2.9V) .

If you splice two identical power supplies (as in, connect antenna to two GPS receivers) both units must support something called OR-ing or both have to be connected through isolation circuits. Otherwise you could've back-biased one of them and put excessive loads on internal capacitors and regulators. This could lead to immediate or eventual failure of the power supply.

That is, JLR could have had a very valid cause to deny warranty if splicing was just connecting wires together. Depending on what and how was connected to that antenna there is a good possibility it could result in damage.

 

I'm with Mikey on this one. Pick no fight, lose no battle.

Plus I don't think the parts guy will have a clue about the application and certainly not the spec for each spring package. Jaguar's Topix folks couldn't even tell me what options my car came with and referred me to a dealer 60 miles away. ford's system brought it up pretty quickly once I found it for my '07.

 

The stereo install was done by professional installers, and imho the radio would not have worked for a year and then failed...it would fail immediately if the installer was responsible for for the fault and had been sending voltage where it should not be, Point taken though.

 

This does not at all mean that they are not idiots and actually understand circuit and power supply design. The only reason I even know about this could happen because of my education as an electrical engineer. So this is not a commonly understood topic.

This is not how it works. My theory that radio failed due fluctuating reverse bias killing electrolytic capacitors. Installers here are 100% at fault for not knowing this could happen.

 

Thanks SinF for the theory, that sounds reasonable.

One more case and point.. Ford ENCOURAGES mods, without warranty restrictions. Especially in the ECU programming arena.

https://performanceparts.ford.com/em...mpliant-parts/

This is an example of what a real performance market leader CAN do. Is Jaguar obligated to...certainly not. But they should "take heed" if they seriously are attempting to attract younger gear heads..

I do understand that one system affects another, and it is clearly the operators responsibility to ensure the parts are the correct fit.

My point is aftermarket parts and services are universally and systematically discouraged by Jaguar, they are trained DELIBERATELY to put up roadblocks when the subject is broached by a customer. If this system-wide Jaguar Policy to DISCOURAGE aftermarket parts use can be demonstrated beyond a reasonable doubt (which is easy to prove at this point), they are simply breaking the law.

My situation was simply replacing springs, and they clearly told me the new car warranty I paid them for "May" be sacrificed if I do....

Again, look at what happened to BMW in the above lawsuit, for the same shady practices. This is Jaguar "Conditioning the Warranty" in the same vein...

https://www.ftc.gov/news-events/pres...ly-conditioned

 

I wouldn't point to Ford as an example of doing it right. Have you heard about Shelby GT350 requiring expensive transmission and differential cooler mods to just to be able to handle track? OEM can't handle any track use due to severe overheating. There is a lawsuit going on since Ford refused to issue a recall. I am sure glad I don't drive one of these.

 

My buddy has a GT350, what a beast of a car. Has to be one of the loudest cars available. He had the oil the cooler service done. The service was as close to a recall as it gets... That car is the real deal. What a piece of kit; first class engine, suspension, and brakes... The rest is just regular Ford. Has to be the most performance in a manual under a 100K available.

There was one local Jaguar dealer (that closed when the mandate for JLR dealerships happened) that use to mod Jags. My impression was they'd (the dealer) stand behind the mods they did; irrespective of Jaguar's warranty. They knew what they were doing though and probably only offered stuff they were confident in.