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Do you ever NOT need a caliper,rotor, etc, etc?

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Do you ever NOT need a caliper,rotor, etc, etc?

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Old 12-03-2018, 07:28 PM
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Angry Do you ever NOT need a caliper,rotor, etc, etc?

What are your thoughts? Here's the quick story:

I maintain my Jaguar XF very well. I do not ignore problems.

Several days ago, as I backed out of my driveway and applied the brakes - it sounded like a massive thunderstorm emanating from my right rear wheel. Left wheel seemed ok. Major grinding on the right. No forewarning of any gradual sound whatsoever - previous to this moment. No sound, nothing on the dash - nada , nyet, nuttin', zip, - nothing.All seemed ok in XF land until I backed up that morning.

Immediately, I drove 35 miles on the highway, barely touching the brakes to the dealer.

His diagnosis: I need both brake pads, both rotors and BOTH calipers. Total bill $2300+ bucks.

So, I humbly ask - is there ever a f*cking time when you bring a car to a dealer and you DON'T NEED CALIPERS, ROTORS, YOUR FIRST BORN AND **** CAVITY GREASE?

(I've done my share of brake jobs, just getting too old for this, really.)
 
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Old 12-03-2018, 09:20 PM
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Sounds like BS from the dealer to me.
JLR dealerships are notorious for saying you need new pads and rotors when all you need is new pads.
Totally OTT to say you need two new calipers as well without proof/evidence.
The grinding was most likely the backing plate of a completely worn out brake pad scraping against the rotor, it's not uncommon for the Jag low brake pad warning sensor system fail and give you no warning at all.
If that is what happened then yes you need new pads and new rotors (bad idea to replace just one rotor, it really needs to be both for balance), but very unlikely that one let alone both calipers need replacing, at most a clean up or refurb of the right rear caliper.
If I were you (and yes I am probably just as old and feeble as you!) I would whip the rear wheels and calipers off and have a good look at the calipers, rotors and brake pads.

PS - I have done a heap of brake work on all of my old XFS, XFR and now F-Type, including total rotor, pad and caliper replacements, and I have never let a dealership get anywhere near the brakes on any of them. I have never had a single problem with the performance of the brakes on any of them.
 

Last edited by OzXFR; 12-03-2018 at 09:24 PM.
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Old 12-03-2018, 11:40 PM
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Thanks for sharing my misery.

The bad part is, I let them fix it. $2300 in US dollars. I will never, ever, ever, let these criminals touch my vehicle again. If they want to pull off my calipers and swap it, they will have to take it out off my cold, clammy, dead hands and body!!!!

In my opinion, there is never a day at a dealer where they do not recommend calipers, bracket. new bolts, rotors, drums, pads, **** searches and robbery of your bank account.
 
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Old 12-04-2018, 01:47 AM
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Originally Posted by Dallas Rockford View Post
Thanks for sharing my misery.

The bad part is, I let them fix it. $2300 in US dollars. I will never, ever, ever, let these criminals touch my vehicle again. If they want to pull off my calipers and swap it, they will have to take it out off my cold, clammy, dead hands and body!!!!

In my opinion, there is never a day at a dealer where they do not recommend calipers, bracket. new bolts, rotors, drums, pads, **** searches and robbery of your bank account.
Sorry to hear it is too late, I didn't twig from your original post that the dealership had already done the deed and bent you over for it!
Well at least you have learned your lesson albeit the hard way, that lesson being once out of warranty don't ever take the car to a dealer for any work unless you have bottomless pockets, I reckon I have saved $10,000+ across three Jags now by DIY.
 
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Old 12-04-2018, 03:52 AM
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Did they give a reason why they thought the calipers needed replacing? One possibility may have been a seized caliper on that corner causing premature wear? On a 2009 if they weren't rebuilt that is reasonable. Most dealers work off the workshop sheet and replace old-for-new whenever a component is faulty, whereas a lot of the time breaking down the caliper and deep cleaning it can bring it back into service. Caliper bolts should be replaced every time they are removed to avoid any risk of the thread lock being misapplied, and most dealers will do that but DIY and independents normally don't bother. (Take a walk down the side of any highway and it is scary how many caliper mounting bolts you will find.)

It may be that the recommendation is to replace them in pairs as with the rotors and pads - it's been years since I needed one done at my cost so I can't remember.

I know in this case they weren't replaced here, but you mentioned the brackets: those might need replacing if the bolts were significantly over torqued on tighten or loosen as there would be a risk of threads being damaged. Brakes are safety-critical parts of a car so no risk of failure is acceptable with them.

Whenever parts like that are replaced then unless you would have difficulty disposing of them it is often worth asking for them to be returned to you. Even if you can't refurb a caliper yourself you can still sell them on in non-working state to someone that can to recover some of your costs. Failing that the scrap weigh-in all adds up, and old rotors still weigh a couple of cups of coffee.

Hopefully some members can recommend a good independent in your region for your next service. There are decent third-party alternatives for the consumable parts and reduced labour cost could halve that cost.

As for the brake wear sensors... as Oz says they often don't work. It is also possible to insert them incorrectly and have them work their way out of position. The only reliable way to check your brakes is still to walk around each corner with your finger and a torch.
 
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Old 12-04-2018, 02:09 PM
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Sorry for the big bill!

I just did the brakes on all 4 wheels on my 2014 XJR. Nothing really special or different. Cost me around $200 for everything. I changed them before I ruined the wear sensors too.
Biggest thing is the tool to wind the rear calipers back in but that tool is available as a free loaner from the parts stores.
.
.
.
 
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Old 12-04-2018, 05:42 PM
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Hmm i have worked at a dealer for 21 years and have yet to replace a caliper, but seen alot replaced on the left rear of x types since they turn in opposite that most do and many inde shops espcially brake check, firestone and midas dont know this and think theyre seized so they replace them.
Did ever think maybe you should have asked them why you needed both calipers instead of asking here? Honestly i have had people drive metal to metal on brakes and the rear calipers since they screw in and out can get jammed at max extension. I have had this several times but after playing with for awhile got them to finally retract. I replace my rotors every other pad set. But i always recommend rotors with pads at work, why? Cause they can and do make noise and lead to squealing. Then people come back pissed, and start demanding new rotos and work for free. So sorry you the public has changed this techs response on that kind of recommendation. Been burned too many times thinking i was helping someone save money.
 
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Old 12-04-2018, 06:04 PM
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I see the car is a 2009 XF, so is the previous model. What miles on the car ? Nothing lasts forever, and I have had front discs, pads, and calipers on my car. New Jaguar discs and pads, but the calipers were, however, exchange items not new Jaguar ones. I now have wonderful brakes. Caliper pistons do seize up unfortunately, and the heat if stuck partially on, warps the disc.

Rear discs and pads now wear quite quickly due to the brakes being part of the traction control system instead of limited-slip discs.
 
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Old 12-04-2018, 06:46 PM
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Totally stupid on my part.

Estimate was $1900 - I went nuts. I said there's no way it needs all that sh*t. They say, ok, it could be lower - we can probably reuse some parts.

I go pick it up and the guy says "we reused one of the calipers - I saved you money.". Then he hands me a bill for $2,350.00 I paid it.

I was so p*ssed off I think I would have given myself a heart attack.

Thanks for your insights.
 
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Old 12-04-2018, 06:53 PM
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Ok, stop sounding so sensible and intellectual. I am a Yank. I wanted to kick the guy's @ss for lying to me to the tune of about $600.

And really, I confess to whining as I knew this would happen and it fulfilled my expectations. Having the ability to do this work myself is what really stings.

But all joking aside, thank you for your input - it means a lot. I am going to keep this car forever I hope.
 
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Old 12-04-2018, 07:07 PM
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Originally Posted by Dallas Rockford View Post
Totally stupid on my part.

Estimate was $1900 - I went nuts. I said there's no way it needs all that sh*t. They say, ok, it could be lower - we can probably reuse some parts.

I go pick it up and the guy says "we reused one of the calipers - I saved you money.". Then he hands me a bill for $2,350.00 I paid it.

I was so p*ssed off I think I would have given myself a heart attack.

Thanks for your insights.
Did you ever find out what caused the noise in the first place?
So far we are guessing "worn down to the backing plate brake pad" and "seized brake caliper slide pin" and so on, but it would be nice to know exactly what happened.
By sheer coincidence I set off from SWMBOs joint yesterday morning and after only about 200 metres there was a horrible and loud metallic "bang" from the rear of the car followed by a loud metal on metal scraping sound, which stopped after about 10 seconds. I turned straight around and went back to SWMBO's driveway, but by the time I got there everything was quiet again and the brakes and steering felt normal.
I had a quick squiz under the car but I couldn't spot anything out of place.
Drove the 15 kilometres home with no more noises and no problems.
Whipped the right rear wheel off and immediately identified the culprit.
It was the brake pad wear sensor cable, I had disconnected it from the brake pad years ago and tied it up in the wheel well, but somehow it had come loose and obviously it had smacked up against the inside of the wheel and then been thrown into the thin aluminium brake rotor splash shield, hence the loud metallic bang.
Tied it up out of the way again, problem solvered.
Cost me nothing but a little time and sweat, who knows what a dealership would have charged for diagnosis and repair!
 

Last edited by OzXFR; 12-04-2018 at 07:18 PM.
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