Hey guys long story short. I recently bought a 2010 Jaguar XFR from a Lexus Dealership. It was a 1 owner vehicle, with 144,000 km (89500 Miles) with most service records from Jaguar. I am new to the world of Jaguar, and hoping to gain from insight into my situation.

It came certified by a Lexus dealership. Throughout the early weeks of ownership I started to notice a few things, so I took it back to Lexus for them to look at. They acknowledged it has a few things going on and decided they weren't adequate enough to diagnose, so they are sending it to Jaguar to have inspected. Here is my request for advice - What else should I try and have Jaguar inspect? I am writing a small note in the car with all the issues Ive noticed and attaching it to the dash. I am also requesting to retain a copy of the report as well as the corrections made. Should I request a specific type of inspection ? I want to make sure they go through the car very thoroughly. But aside from the notes below... is there anything else I should specifically ask to have inspected? Im not too worried about the safety items, moreso the bigger concerns.

My notes:

- Possible engine oil burning. after Lexus put fresh oil in, 1 week later I got an "add 1 litre of oil" message
- Passenger Window regulator/motor not working.
- Weird rattle in rear of car driving/cruising at 110km on highway - seems like some trim piece in the trunk that I cannot locate.
- Engine idle a tad rough. No engine light, and not abrupt enough to be overly concerning, But the idle is definitely not consistent, and a minor vibration is felt every 2 seconds during idle.
- RPM needle a tad erratic, not sure if its electrical, or connected to rough idle.
- interior dome lights act erratically, coming on by themselves and flashing during driving. Very annoying and dangerous.

 

See suggestions above.

 

I feel I must beg to differ here - to an extent. I lost enough oil in a service interval that it got low enough to spin bearings, and there were no obvious big leaks. I still have no proof, but my suspicion is my worn chain timing guides caused metal in the oil, maaaybe wearing piston rings or similar to cause blow-by and burning off? Either way, there's a few stories of dead XFR engines due to oil starvation, and assuming these engines weren't leaking enough the owners noticed, the reputation is not quite zero.

@Turtlepower it's entirely possible the dealer didn't put enough oil in, so top it up, make sure it's good, and keep an eye on the level. If it drops - make sure you have no leaks, these should be pretty apparent on the block.

 

Thanks for just timely responses guys. The car goes to back to Lexus again this Wednesday. And they are bringing it to Jaguar to address these concerns.

Now im a big DIYer. So I would happily tackle as much as I could.

This is my one opportunity to have Jaguar diagnose, inspect, and fix anything that is wrong with the car at the expense of the Lexus dealership I bought the car from. So my intent here is to try and have Jaguar do a proper inspection to see to it that the car passes their own standards as a certified pre owned car.

Is there anything else I should request from for the inspection ? Or should I assume it will be adequately inspected based on my "notes".

Will be changing the interior lights out tomorrow myself

 

Find out if the timing tensioners and guides have been replaced, and if they haven't, get them to check if there's suspect noise from the timing gear.

The early (2010-2012ish) engines had a design flaw in the timing gear where the timing tensioner pin was made of a much harder metal than the aluminum backing of the timing chain guide it pushed against, meaning that over time it wore a hole in the back of the blade, causing slack in the chains.

JLR updated the design of the guides to have a disc of hardened metal where the blade comes into contact with the tensioner pin along with a redesigned tensioner, and while it's possible to change just the guides and tensioners it's not an easy job and requires a fair few tools to do it properly.

This problem is apparently far more common knowledge in the Range Rover world than here, probably due to larger numbers sold and widely-publicized (at least on the RR forums) engine noises, with some outright failures, due to it.

 

Ah nice! I will certainly bring up a point to inspect the timing tensioners and guides. Thanks for that piece of advice.

Also, I swapped out the dome light bulbs with brand new LED bulbs. And they worked for a minute, followed by the unfortunate light show. I put back the regular bulbs, and will ask Jaguar to look into the issue, possibly rendering them to replace the whole assembly if need be.

 

Sorry, I missed your comment about the light show earlier - it's a known issue, and you could probably fix it yourself.

See attached TSB.

 

I know it's a bit late to chine in, but I'd have them pressure check your cooling system too, after 50kmi The plastic cooling system parts (especially the rear crossover pipe) and water pump are suspect.

 

Not too late! Going in tomorrow. I wrote up a well organized document pointing out all the issues that have arisen, and asked that the XFR undergo the Jaguar Specific 165 point inspection . I have included to pressure check the coolant system, and water pump, and inspect the timing gear as some audible ticking is present.

Thanks a lot guys. Will update this thread once Jaguar gets their paws on this kitty! Will upload some pics of the car and some of then nice aesthetic mods ive already done!

 

UPDATE!

Quite a story here.

Afer complaining of these issues, Lexus sent My XFR went to local Jaguar Dealership for inspection. I asked them to check the timing chain among all the other things - low and behold they said it needs to be replaced.
After checking out everything else, the bill was in excess of $30,000.

- 2 window regulators,
- headlight brackets broken (recommended 2 new headlights)
- dome light circuitry
- TPMS module failure
- driver seat climate module "melted"
- and Timing chain and guides making noise - this repair alone was estimated at 14,000 canadian dollars

Lexus has offered to unwind the whole deal. I refused and am formulating a response based on the points i will outline below.

1) I traded a car into them and they have already sold it. So Id be getting my trade in value of the car back, and not the actual car itself.

2) Now this all stems from the ad that was posted by Lexus stating that the car had underwent a 175 point inspection . I only find out after that it was a "mistake" to have that listed. So no , the engine, and all these components were NOT inspected. Just safety items (tires, brakes, windshield, etc). False advertising, misleading, negligence.

3) Lexus did a fresh oil change before delivery to me. The reason why I thought the oil was burning was because I found out they only put 4-5 L of oil in, and not the recommended 8. AND they put 5W30. So its very possible the timing chain was damaged because of their negligence yet again ( half the amount of oil, wrong oil type)

Now to be reasonable, to get this resolved asap, and to KEEP my Jaguar. I understand Jaguars estimate is incredibly inflated, especially when half the stuff I can do myself. I am considering proposing that I would source some of the parts and do myself as many have suggested here, and absorb essentially half of Jaguars recommended repair bill.

BUT will ask Lexus pick up the whole bill for the timing chain job from an independant Jaguar shop ( estimated around 8-9000 Canadian Dollars)

What do you guys think. This stuff is pretty time sensitive and hoping to resolve within the next couple of days.

For all I know, they could say NO. Do you guys think I should proceed legally? I have documented, mostly everything, including the original ad that originally mislead me.... and feel I could prove a good case in court, should it resort to that.

 

Heh, another with timing chain issues - I'm glad I could help with that one. My timing guides were so worn that there was burrs in the aluminum webbing in the block where the chains had been rattling around due to slack.

Headlight brackets broken - suuuper common, and not even just with this car or manufacturer. I don't know why the headlight companies like Hella make the cases out of such brittle plastic. New headlights on eBay seem to go for $650ish each for the pre-facelift, dealers probably want well over a grand. I'm sure you could get them plastic welded or even just glued.

The driver's seat climate module being "melted' is an interesting one, I wonder if they're referring to the fact that the plastic tubing that goes from the peltier cooler/heater module to the ventilated seat pads goes hard and cracks, leaking air and causing the module to overheat and shut down, or if this is actually a control unit (ie an ECU) that's actually melted? I'm guessing the first option.

I'd say you could do everything but the timing chains yourself - that job is involved and needs a few special tools, so I'd def be looking to get an indy to do it, but it obviously has to be done. I doubt the timing chain was caused by their negligence or the wrong oil because it's a known flaw, but while I'm happy giving technical advice I'm not so sure about the legal so I'll leave that to other forum members

 

Well thanks a ton for that initial bit of advice, along with this last message as well.

Im happy to absorb all this work except the timing chain. I feel that's reasonable and fair.

My reason for claiming negligence is for 2 main reasons... such as :

1) they falsely led me to believe the car was 175 point inspected. Which would have covered everything from engine noise, idle, broken modules, basically everything! AND if I knew it wasn't 175 point inspected before I bought it, (which now i found out it was a mistake on their part) I would have HAD it inspected my Jag or an indy... which would likely have uncovered all these issues, and A - the cars price would have been adjusted B) they would have repaired some more vital stuff (timing chain). AND

2) Having only half the recommended amount of oil in the car - surely that isnt good, and if anything simply serves as a possibly for engine damage. Further supporting my claim/proposal to have them front the timing chain job.

 

They didn't put "only half" the recommended amount of oil in if you claim they put 4-5 litres in.
The correct fill volume for the XFR is 7.25 litres so 4-5 litres is a bit more than "half".
In your first post you said you got the dash message "add 1 litre of oil" which suggests they put maybe 6 to 6.25 litres in, not 4-5.
I am making this point because if it comes to legal action (and I suspect it will) you need to be accurate and not exaggerate.
However using 5W-30 is a big no-no in this engine, it needs 0W-20 or 5W-20.
Also you need to check exactly what spec, grade and type of oil they used, the XFR takes a very precise specification and any old spec just ain't good enough.
I reckon if you can prove they used the wrong grade and spec oil and under-filled it by at least one litre you have a good chance of forcing them to completely fix all engine related problems free of charge, just don't gild the lily!

Edit - forgot to add - one of the purported reasons JLR changed the oil spec on the AJ133SC some time around 2013 from 5W-20 to 0W-20 was because of excessive timing chain wear. The theory is that the slightly heavier (at cold start) 5W-20 took a bit too long to reach the timing chains and tensioners resulting in excessive wear, so the solution was to go to a thinner (when cold) oil, 0W-20.
If true then 5W-30 oil is even worse and you could argue that it at least contributed to if not caused the excessive timing chain wear.

 

Hey There, thanks for the response. Im not trying to exaggerate.
- A service consultant at jaguar said it takes 8 litres of oil via text.
- The service consultant at Lexus verbally said they used only 4ish, and needed to top off when I brought it in. Hence me saying half - based on the information presented to me.
- I have pictures showing the initial warning of add 1 Litre. Followed by me waiting the recommended 10 minutes on even surface to get a more accurate reading, and it said " see handbook" with an even lower level of oil on the bar - Hence less than 1L for sure- and by how much? I don't know.
- Also proof of them using 5w30 is shown on the service record when I took it in, and they said the topped off with 5w30... safely assuming they are using the same oil they changed it with.

Not trying to gild the lily, however I appreciate you helping me.

Cheers.

 

Wow, thanks OZXFR for that last edit. That info is definitely noted.

 

>and to KEEP my Jaguar.

I'm sorry Turtlepower, but I have to side with the folks who say to return the car to the Lexus dealer. A "project" like this could turn out to be a boat-anchor. Jaguars can be extremely expensive when things go wrong, and there really appears to be a lot "wrong" with this car.

I believe that the best approach is to return the car to the Lexus dealer and ask them to locate a "similar" GS300 for you.

Really
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My karma just ran over your dogma
Current Hers: '13 Lexus ES350
Current Mine: '15 Jaguar XF (its aubergine)

 

^^^Correct.

Car is totaled and is worth more parted out. OP thinking is in the weeds about recovering from this mess. Fact is that buying a european luxury car out of warranty is a gamble. Even those with CPO warranty get nasty surprises as to what isn't covered.

This roll of the dice turned snake eyes. Take the money and leave quietly with a lesson learned - buying these is not like most other cars. Don't feel too bad as a lot of us also learned the hard way.

 

Yep, not enough oil and the wrong oil could have caused other damage to the engine that hasn't shown up yet, such as bearings, that would not be fixed by a timing chain repair.

How much did you pay for the car? I am thinking the Jaguar repair bill would put the Lexus dealer so upside down on the car that they'll probably be happier to refund you a little more money on your trade-in and let you be on your way.

 

I bought the car for 15000 Canadian dollars. 1 owner, dealer service records, no accidents, clean title. Trade in value for my previous car was 7000, and the remaining paid in cash.

 

There are a few others XFR being sold, and would actually be happy if the amount I was refunded would cover the cost of one of them.