XF and XFR ( X250 ) 2007 - 2015

Head Gasket replacement

 
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Old 02-18-2019, 03:49 PM
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Default Head Gasket replacement

Well...it finally happened....After pushing the 3.0L to its limit for the past year, I have my first major engine issue. I was spraying and having a nice time roling around town. At a stop light, I smelled coolant and saw a cloud of white smoke coming from my right tail pipes. Luckily I have been running the Torque app ever since I tuned the car, so it helped when the pre-set alarm went off telling me my coolant temps were too high. I purposely set the PID to warm me if coolant temps go above 205 deg.F so I think I had plenty of warming before the engine overheated too bad. I never got any engine temp warning from the dash, I pulled over and opened the hood and saw coolant running out from behind the water-pump. I had another water-pump leak (second time this has happened!). Towed the car home.

I replaced the water-pump...this time I shelled out the cash for a dealership sourced water-pump (looks the same as the cheaper versions, but figured it may last longer)

But, I am now losing coolant over the course of my daily drive. I would say I probably lose about a 16 oz of coolant over a 100 mile trip. I dont see any white smoke coming fomr the tailpipe anymore, but the coolant is going somewhere..lol.

figured I will begin sourcing info and getting tools for a head gasket change. I just hope the heads are not warped. I have been reading other posts on here and it seems that it can be done even with warped heads, so I am hopeful I can get the Jag back into shape before the summer.

So far, I know I will be doing the following:

-- dissemble direct port set-up.
-- remove intake manifold (done this part like five times already...lol)
-- unbolt exhaust headers
-- remove any relevant pulleys, hoses, fuel lines, connectors, blah, blah,blah
-- remove timing cover
-- remove heads
-- I will be replacing the tensioners while I am in there as well as the guides. Should I replace the chain also?????

What I don't know is ... will I expect to have any timing issues when re-installing? I plan to place marks on as many areas as I can (VVT gears, sprockets, chains) but I am worried about removing the cams.

I know the exhaust cams are under pressure and I will go easy on the removal of those. But will I need to worry about anything popping off when I take the head assembly off? My fear is I take off the head assembly and all my valves and springs pop out all over the garage ....lol

I've never taken heads off before, so I don't want to get into valve lapping or anything else. Just want to get the heads off, clean the block surface, have the heads checked for warpage and put new head gaskets. Hopefully I can get some guidance from davetibbs, BigWill, Unhingd, et al.
 
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Old 02-18-2019, 06:54 PM
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If it were me, I would make darn sure it was a head gasket failure before I just ***** nilly replaced the head gaskets. It's no day in the park to change head gaskets on an overhead cam engine. You could shoot your eye out!

Check youtube for videos how to conclusively test if the head gasket is your problem. You can use a cooling system pressure tester to determine a head gasket failure between the combustion chambers and the cooling system if you follow the procedure. And you can use a chemical test for exhaust gases in the cooling system too. Lots of other things to check.

Honestly, dude, if you aren't the kinda guy that would think to definitively test your head gaskets before changing them, and you don't already know how to do those tests, then pulling off your heads is way over your head. You're going to screw up your engine for sure.

Here's one of a billion videos to help you understand how you may be headed in the wrong direction.

 

Last edited by lotusespritse; 02-18-2019 at 09:29 PM.
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Old 02-18-2019, 08:10 PM
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Wow. thanks for the great advice. So, lets see.....coolant loss, no coolant leak....possible causes...cracked block...cracked heads....piston wear...blah blah blah....all of which require removal of the cylinder heads. So 'scientifically speaking'....lol...what diagnostic step is going to actually fix this issue? Every mechanic I have spoken to tells me the heads need to come of in order to find the problem.

Heads come of...they go to get pressure tested to check for leaks. If they pass, the block gets looked at for obvious cracks. Either way....the gaskets get replaced. If the issue persists after it all gets put back together....then I know its an engine rebuild or replacement at which point, I move into another car. So....what exactly am I going to accomplish by spending half a day taking off plugs and leak down tests and coolant gas chemistry tests?

What I want to know is...how can my eyes get splin-jured? I am very attached to my lookie-holes...I need them to look at those billion youtube videos.
 

Last edited by Cherry_560sel; 02-18-2019 at 08:22 PM.
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Old 02-18-2019, 09:38 PM
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Originally Posted by Cherry_560sel View Post
Wow. thanks for the great advice. So, lets see.....coolant loss, no coolant leak....possible causes...cracked block...cracked heads....piston wear...blah blah blah....all of which require removal of the cylinder heads. So 'scientifically speaking'....lol...what diagnostic step is going to actually fix this issue? Every mechanic I have spoken to tells me the heads need to come of in order to find the problem.

Heads come of...they go to get pressure tested to check for leaks. If they pass, the block gets looked at for obvious cracks. Either way....the gaskets get replaced. If the issue persists after it all gets put back together....then I know its an engine rebuild or replacement at which point, I move into another car. So....what exactly am I going to accomplish by spending half a day taking off plugs and leak down tests and coolant gas chemistry tests?

What I want to know is...how can my eyes get splin-jured? I am very attached to my lookie-holes...I need them to look at those billion youtube videos.
Dude, sorry, not going to try to convince you. You can't argue with stupid. Any mechanic that tells you not to bother diagnosing the engine with well known techniques before taking it apart is a professional idiot. While it's still together and running is when the smart people will do their diagnosis, and only then work on fixing the actual problem instead of just pulling everything apart needlessly.

Good luck to you!

 
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Old 02-18-2019, 10:11 PM
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thank you for the well wishes. Hopefully we can get past this and I can get some helpful feedback as this thread develops.
 
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Old 02-18-2019, 11:09 PM
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Allow me!

Putting to one side the passive agressiveness already in the thread, I too would want to make absolutely sure the coolant is being burned (i.e. head gasket issues) rather than lost before I pulled the heads off. At the least, I'd invest in a coolant pressure tester - you can find kits on eBay or Amazon for around $100. Can you smell coolant when the engine is running from the tailpipe or from the engine?

I'd also consider a WiFi endoscope - these can be found for about $35 and can get right down inside things to look for coolant leaks. There's the obvious places like from the coolant pump (the gasket either side or the pipe at the rear of the pump that connects to the oil cooler, also the rear coolant crossover pipe) - but also less obvious (but possible) places - the oil cooler, any hoses anywhere at the front, the heater matrix - is the carpet inside dry?

With the two of these, you could force the coolant out of wherever it's escaping - do it until the level drops and then find the coolant - you could even stick the wifi endoscope through the spark plug holes and find if the coolant is making it into a cylinder, thereby proving the head gasket is at fault.

The reason I suggest going to all this effort is the amount of work to pull the heads off is quite considerable on these engines - you'll need quite a lot in specific tools - including the tools to time the engine back up - and I can explain this process, at least for the V8, and I'm willing to bet it's largely the same for the V6. Even getting the crank pulley off can take some work (and again, more specific tools), not to mention the injectors.

This can all be done and I have no doubt you'd be able to do it, and if it has to be done, then go for it. But I'd be spending some time and money to prove it needs to be done before pulling the heads.
 
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Old 02-19-2019, 08:36 AM
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>But I'd be spending some time and money to prove it needs to be done before pulling the heads.
"Measure twice, cut once"...
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Old 02-19-2019, 12:14 PM
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Originally Posted by davetibbs View Post
Allow me!

Putting to one side the passive agressiveness already in the thread, I too would want to make absolutely sure the coolant is being burned (i.e. head gasket issues) rather than lost before I pulled the heads off. At the least, I'd invest in a coolant pressure tester - you can find kits on eBay or Amazon for around $100. Can you smell coolant when the engine is running from the tailpipe or from the engine?

I'd also consider a WiFi endoscope - these can be found for about $35 and can get right down inside things to look for coolant leaks. There's the obvious places like from the coolant pump (the gasket either side or the pipe at the rear of the pump that connects to the oil cooler, also the rear coolant crossover pipe) - but also less obvious (but possible) places - the oil cooler, any hoses anywhere at the front, the heater matrix - is the carpet inside dry?

With the two of these, you could force the coolant out of wherever it's escaping - do it until the level drops and then find the coolant - you could even stick the wifi endoscope through the spark plug holes and find if the coolant is making it into a cylinder, thereby proving the head gasket is at fault.

The reason I suggest going to all this effort is the amount of work to pull the heads off is quite considerable on these engines - you'll need quite a lot in specific tools - including the tools to time the engine back up - and I can explain this process, at least for the V8, and I'm willing to bet it's largely the same for the V6. Even getting the crank pulley off can take some work (and again, more specific tools), not to mention the injectors.

This can all be done and I have no doubt you'd be able to do it, and if it has to be done, then go for it. But I'd be spending some time and money to prove it needs to be done before pulling the heads.

all that has been done already.
 
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Old 02-19-2019, 02:28 PM
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OK sweet - where's the coolant going then? Any compression loss in any of the cylinders?
 
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Old 02-20-2019, 01:00 AM
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Well when I was racing if a boosted and/or bottled guy thought he'd lifted a head first thing they'd do is a cooling system pressure test. 1 hour at the radiator caps stated pressure, white smoke on start up after that, it was probably a HG. Just a coolant loss leak would be seen. Jags have so many possible coolant leak sources I'd exhaust all avenues before tearing into it. If your not in a hurry you could also get an oil analysis, that could determine if it's an internal or external leak.
 

Last edited by Bigg Will; 02-20-2019 at 01:09 AM.
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Old 02-20-2019, 07:48 AM
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I agree with the other comments - and this goes for any car.
You want to figure out where you are loosing coolant before you take anything apart - while you can easily do pressure tests. Also double check anything else; Example - double check the water pump and make sure it was installed properly... and any other hoses/plastic tubes.

Bigg Will's recommendation with the oil test is a good idea - this will easily tell you if your coolant is mixing with your oil, before you start taking things apart.
If you have coolant in oil, then the engine comes apart... if not... hoses and any weak points on the coolant system (engine doesn't come apart).

If you say everything possible was done (compression tests, double checked all the hoses, etc) then the only thing left to do is to remove the heads (I would still say to do the oil test before this).

For timing, there is no need to make any marks. Usually all engines have marks on them. Also the timing chains should have some sort of marked/colored links that will have to line up with the marks on the engine.
What I would recommend is to get the timing set tools. And while you are there, change those chains as well - if it was never done and you are above 120,000km mark... is a good idea to do it anyway.

Good luck and come back with your findings.
I'm curious to know...
 
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Old 02-20-2019, 09:04 AM
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Originally Posted by davetibbs View Post
OK sweet - where's the coolant going then? Any compression loss in any of the cylinders?
Yes. There is compression loss. Especially when the engine has gotten to operating temperature. In the morning, starts as normal...but with slightly more exhaust "smoke"than usual. ITs winter so that is not indicative of anything in and of itself. But let's say I drive it to operating temp of 156F, and keep driving a few more minutes. The coolant temp stabilizes at 196F. I can drive like that for ever. In traffic, it goes up about ten degrees...fairly normal.

Now, when I park the car, let's say to go buy a pack of cigarettes...when I push the power button, the starter engages and turns the engine, but it takes a good 7 seconds before compression builds up enough to start the engine. It just turn over and over before finally building enough compression to start the motor. I have driven it to work and back without any stops in between and it starts as usual...cold starts are no problem....when engine is hot ...starting is a problem, so no more driving around until this gets done.

I plug chopped it and cylinder three was cleaner than the others. I expect to find a steam cleaned cylinder when I get into it.
 
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Old 02-20-2019, 12:29 PM
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I could not tell but have you actually done a compression test?
Can you post the numbers you got?
Hard to go by smoke and how the engine starts.
.
.
.
 
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Old 02-20-2019, 04:33 PM
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Thank you all for the replies and questions. I will try my best to answer everything. I don't have numbers to show you from the compression test...If I remember correctly it was something like 140 psi or so on all but two of the cylinders. those were around 90 to 100.

The heads are coming off. That is what this thread will be about. What I want to know is when I pry apart the heads...will all my valves fall out from underneath ...
 
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Old 02-20-2019, 08:32 PM
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Originally Posted by Cherry_560sel View Post
The heads are coming off. That is what this thread will be about. What I want to know is when I pry apart the heads...will all my valves fall out from underneath ...
LOL... no they won't (I hope you were joking...)!
If you have to ask this question... then maybe you shouldn't attempt this.
 

Last edited by mrNewt; 02-21-2019 at 06:29 AM.
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Old 02-21-2019, 12:49 AM
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Originally Posted by Cherry_560sel View Post
The heads are coming off. That is what this thread will be about. What I want to know is when I pry apart the heads...will all my valves fall out from underneath ...
No, and if you have to ask that, you might want to rethink tackling the job yourself. Or at least, get all the info you can on it and bone up on what's required before you get busy with the socket set However, as you seem pretty intent on doing this, here goes: You can get the workshop manual online, which you'll need. If you haven't ever removed your supercharger, that can be a mare - at least on the V8, I assume it might be easier on the V6.

You'll also need a fair amount of special tools for this. Just off the top of my head:
  • The timing tool kit for locking and setting the timing. Plenty online for the V8, I assume the V6 uses the same tools due to the shared components/design but you'll need to verify this
  • Various tools to remove and install the crank pulley - the workshop manual will list these. There is a special tool to hold the crank pulley in place while removing and refitting the bolt - the bolt is in TIGHT. Also it's likely to be reverse threaded so check that (by the numbers printed on the bolt, see the workshop manual) to avoid snapping the bolt off. Personally, when refitting the pulley, there's no way I'd have been able to do it without the actual special tools to screw the pulley on straight, but I'm sure some have been able to without.
  • Fuel injector removal tool. Based on how hard I had to pull on mine to get them out, I'm thinking it'd be a good idea to remove your hood too
Also a quick parts list, again off the top of my head:
  • New head gaskets (obviously). I found 4-layer Cometic gaskets for the 5.0 v8, not sure if they do them for the V6
  • New cam chains, guides, tensioners.
  • New injector seals
  • New timing cover
  • New VVT o rings
  • New camshaft oil filters (tiny things, make sure you replace them)
  • Inlet/exhaust manifold gaskets
  • New head bolts
  • New crank pulley bolt - you do NOT want the old one snapping in the crank lol
  • Jaguar recommend replacement of the HP fuel hoses when you remove them. Personally I replaced mine but suspect they'd be fine going back as is
  • New rear water x-over pipe - at least on the V8, these are a common failure item, so might as well change it
Also, make sure you at least walnut-shell blast the heads and inlet ports/valves while they're off, get some ponies back. If it's anything like the V8 they're probably a bit carbon-y. Also obviously have the block and heads checked for straightness. I had my heads resurfaced and did the best I could carefully cleaning the block deck with a razor blade and various cleaning compounds - I've heard the MLS gaskets used in these engines can be particularly picky about good sealing surfaces.
 
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Old 02-21-2019, 02:16 AM
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Cherry,
I have the 2010-2011 XFR Workshop Manual, the 2014 F-Type V6 Workshop Manual (exact same engine as your car) and the AJ133 Technical Training PDF, all in my Dropbox. Between them they should help, let me know which of them you might like and I'll post up a link or two.
 
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Old 02-27-2019, 02:08 PM
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Originally Posted by OzXFR View Post
Cherry,
I have the 2010-2011 XFR Workshop Manual, the 2014 F-Type V6 Workshop Manual (exact same engine as your car) and the AJ133 Technical Training PDF, all in my Dropbox. Between them they should help, let me know which of them you might like and I'll post up a link or two.
Beautiful Oz !!!! Thank you. I have your XFR workshop manual, but if you can get me the V6 manual I would be forever grateful!!
 
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Old 02-27-2019, 02:32 PM
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Originally Posted by davetibbs View Post
No, and if you have to ask that, you might want to rethink tackling the job yourself. Or at least, get all the info you can on it and bone up on what's required before you get busy with the socket set However, as you seem pretty intent on doing this, here goes: You can get the workshop manual online, which you'll need. If you haven't ever removed your supercharger, that can be a mare - at least on the V8, I assume it might be easier on the V6.

You'll also need a fair amount of special tools for this. Just off the top of my head:
  • The timing tool kit for locking and setting the timing. Plenty online for the V8, I assume the V6 uses the same tools due to the shared components/design but you'll need to verify this
  • Various tools to remove and install the crank pulley - the workshop manual will list these. There is a special tool to hold the crank pulley in place while removing and refitting the bolt - the bolt is in TIGHT. Also it's likely to be reverse threaded so check that (by the numbers printed on the bolt, see the workshop manual) to avoid snapping the bolt off. Personally, when refitting the pulley, there's no way I'd have been able to do it without the actual special tools to screw the pulley on straight, but I'm sure some have been able to without.
  • Fuel injector removal tool. Based on how hard I had to pull on mine to get them out, I'm thinking it'd be a good idea to remove your hood too
Also a quick parts list, again off the top of my head:
  • New head gaskets (obviously). I found 4-layer Cometic gaskets for the 5.0 v8, not sure if they do them for the V6
  • New cam chains, guides, tensioners.
  • New injector seals
  • New timing cover
  • New VVT o rings
  • New camshaft oil filters (tiny things, make sure you replace them)
  • Inlet/exhaust manifold gaskets
  • New head bolts
  • New crank pulley bolt - you do NOT want the old one snapping in the crank lol
  • Jaguar recommend replacement of the HP fuel hoses when you remove them. Personally I replaced mine but suspect they'd be fine going back as is
  • New rear water x-over pipe - at least on the V8, these are a common failure item, so might as well change it
Also, make sure you at least walnut-shell blast the heads and inlet ports/valves while they're off, get some ponies back. If it's anything like the V8 they're probably a bit carbon-y. Also obviously have the block and heads checked for straightness. I had my heads resurfaced and did the best I could carefully cleaning the block deck with a razor blade and various cleaning compounds - I've heard the MLS gaskets used in these engines can be particularly picky about good sealing surfaces.


Yes...I was only joking about my valves coming off. But ya gotta admit...you chuckled when you read it...

--- So removing the supercharger is also a total PITA for the V6 --- done it several times....I can get it off in under an hour now...hahaha

--- Hopefully OZXFR ca nget me the V6 manual and I will be able to figure out how to set the timing. I already sourced the cam lockdown/timing toolkit from Amazon, but since I am taking the VVT gears off I wonder why the heck do I need to lock down the cams??? It would be super if I could remove the chains without having to pull of the VVT gears ..but I dont think its possible. Any thoughts???

--- I know about the crankbolt and will look out for the serial number on it so I know in which direction it unscrews. I suppose I can source the tool, But I have seen it done without it. I will likely find the tool just to make sure...here is actually my biggest worry because I plan to do this without pulling the engine out so I am a little worried about the room. Since I plan to install a EuroToys intercooler I am not to worried about damaging the radiator, but would prefer to keep it free of dents and holes...I have seen some mechanics wedge a piece of cardboard in there to keep from scrapping up the fins.

--- Thanks for the tip regarding the fuel injectors. Is it necessarry to replace them or will I be able to get away with reusing them? I think taking the hood off is another good suggestion and given all the work already going into this, it is probably going to make thing easier. Thanks

--- I am concerned about sourcing the gasket. Should I go with OEM from dealership or is there a better alternative out there given my spray application? Also, is going with the ARP bolts as you did a better choice than OEM? I have been re-reading your rebuild thread but I can't find anywhere that specs these bolts for Jag.

--- The coolant pipes have all been replaced already. One of the first things that went on the engine was that pesky Y-pipe that sits underneath the throttle body. That was the first time the S/C came off...lol

--- New timing cover???? why cant I reuse the old one? just curious? I was hoping to be able to get away with pulling just the upper cover off.
 

Last edited by Cherry_560sel; 02-27-2019 at 02:39 PM.
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Old 02-27-2019, 03:02 PM
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HEyyyyyyyy.....you know what...that AlliSport Intercooler looks awfully (exactly) like the EuroToys version. I just priced it and it came out to under $900 US including shipping (does the UK charge VAT if the part is sold oversees???? come on Brexit!!!) versus the $1400 +shipping for the EuroToys version. I think I just saved $600...hahaha
 

Last edited by Cherry_560sel; 02-27-2019 at 03:22 PM.

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