Negative Camber
#1
Negative Camber
I had the wheel alignment done on my 2012 XFR yesterday. The tech told me that he had maxed out on the front end camber adjustment. He said that I needed new "Camber Bolt Centrics."
I have owned the car for 4 years and have had the alignment done every 6 months without an issue. Any ideas on a possible worn suspension part that could be the cause? I called my Indy and they said they could put longer bolts in but I want to make sure that we are just masking a bigger problem.
I have owned the car for 4 years and have had the alignment done every 6 months without an issue. Any ideas on a possible worn suspension part that could be the cause? I called my Indy and they said they could put longer bolts in but I want to make sure that we are just masking a bigger problem.
Last edited by kiddhan625; 09-12-2016 at 11:00 AM.
#2
Alignments every 6mo. why? Unless you hit something, got pulling in the steering or suspect tire wear once a year (if needed) is plenty.
But to your question, the first thing I would do is get an alignment check from another shop. Alignment specs just don't go out that fast unless you hit something, so if everything has been fine on your previous alignments, it should still be, while allowing for normal wear. XF Jags seem to hold alignment well, I've had 1 alignment in 2 years on my 2010 XFR, and this was only after hitting a pot hole that destroyed the right front tire and bent both right side rims https://www.jaguarforums.com/forum/x...-again-162731/ , MY CARS ALIGNMENT WAS JUST BARELY OUT ACCORDING TO THE TECH THAT DID MY ALIGNMENT. So get a second opinion before you start spending.
The other thing that leads me to believe it's the tech or machine used, in your bad caster final picture is the reading shows a full - left and full +right reading, that's not a normal alignment wear reading as it indicates your wheels are pushed over like this → / /, where as normal wheel wear (For the sake of needing adjustment) is like this | |, / \, \ / or even just one side out. And finally your techs recommendation of new camber bolts to correct your alignment is suspect because as he said the current adjustment are "all ready maxed out", factory adjustment bolts will not correct this since you have factory bolts NOW, only a camber bolt with a larger eccentric will fix this, so he must be trying to sell you a camber kit, I couldn't find a camber kit exclusive to the XF, so your tech is probably going to try and sell you something way more expensive. I'd get a second opinion.
But to your question, the first thing I would do is get an alignment check from another shop. Alignment specs just don't go out that fast unless you hit something, so if everything has been fine on your previous alignments, it should still be, while allowing for normal wear. XF Jags seem to hold alignment well, I've had 1 alignment in 2 years on my 2010 XFR, and this was only after hitting a pot hole that destroyed the right front tire and bent both right side rims https://www.jaguarforums.com/forum/x...-again-162731/ , MY CARS ALIGNMENT WAS JUST BARELY OUT ACCORDING TO THE TECH THAT DID MY ALIGNMENT. So get a second opinion before you start spending.
The other thing that leads me to believe it's the tech or machine used, in your bad caster final picture is the reading shows a full - left and full +right reading, that's not a normal alignment wear reading as it indicates your wheels are pushed over like this → / /, where as normal wheel wear (For the sake of needing adjustment) is like this | |, / \, \ / or even just one side out. And finally your techs recommendation of new camber bolts to correct your alignment is suspect because as he said the current adjustment are "all ready maxed out", factory adjustment bolts will not correct this since you have factory bolts NOW, only a camber bolt with a larger eccentric will fix this, so he must be trying to sell you a camber kit, I couldn't find a camber kit exclusive to the XF, so your tech is probably going to try and sell you something way more expensive. I'd get a second opinion.
Last edited by Bigg Will; 09-13-2016 at 11:52 AM.
#3
The camber setting on the passenger side front wheel is that would bother me a lot. Since we are talking about a performance car, I would prefer to set it up for aggressive handling. That means negative camber all around (top of the wheel/tire is leaning inwards compared to the bottom).
For my street cars I generally like to set approximately -1.3 to -1.5 degrees of negative camber. That helps with cornering and provides decent tire thread life when the car is driven spiritedly over winding roads.
The right front camber is a positive +0.4. That tire will tend to roll under when cornering hard and wear the outside tire blocks. It will also result in undesirable push in left turns (understeer).
As it seems Jaguar does not have very good control over their production specs. On my wife's '12 XF I tried to get good front cambers but, -0.3 degree was the best I could get on the driver-side front wheel. The rest of the corners were Ok. At least, it is negative camber as opposed to positive in your case. I would listen to the shop and see if they could get a different adjusting bolt with more eccentric to allow for more camber adjustment.
For my street cars I generally like to set approximately -1.3 to -1.5 degrees of negative camber. That helps with cornering and provides decent tire thread life when the car is driven spiritedly over winding roads.
The right front camber is a positive +0.4. That tire will tend to roll under when cornering hard and wear the outside tire blocks. It will also result in undesirable push in left turns (understeer).
As it seems Jaguar does not have very good control over their production specs. On my wife's '12 XF I tried to get good front cambers but, -0.3 degree was the best I could get on the driver-side front wheel. The rest of the corners were Ok. At least, it is negative camber as opposed to positive in your case. I would listen to the shop and see if they could get a different adjusting bolt with more eccentric to allow for more camber adjustment.
#5
See both of your caster readings have moved to the left about the same amount
-1° on the left side
+ .9° on the right side
Honestly that is too much of a coincidence to be wear in such a short time, so dam evenly in opposite directions (same direction for looks BUT opposite directions for adjustments), on left and right hand chassis components, BUT THEY CAN BE ADJUSTED TO GIVE THAT SORT OF READING! as I said before your wheels are both pushed over in the same direction like this / / I've NEVER seen a car wear suspension or steering components in a way that would produce this type of wear reading in an alignment. The only time I've seen issues like yours is after an accident, a faulty alignment machine or bad alignment tech. My guess is you will be or have been approached to spend some cash. GET A SECOND OPINION
If you do let them do the work-write on the work order, before you sign it real big I WANT MY OLD PARTS BACK!, and ask to see the old parts on the car and new parts BEFORE they put them on the car or at least before you leave their shop, If the new camber bolts eccentric is/was the same size as your old ones, ya got took.
If your old parts happen to get lost again ya got took! Just google camber adjustment bolts and you'll see what I mean if you don't know. Good luck!
-1° on the left side
+ .9° on the right side
Honestly that is too much of a coincidence to be wear in such a short time, so dam evenly in opposite directions (same direction for looks BUT opposite directions for adjustments), on left and right hand chassis components, BUT THEY CAN BE ADJUSTED TO GIVE THAT SORT OF READING! as I said before your wheels are both pushed over in the same direction like this / / I've NEVER seen a car wear suspension or steering components in a way that would produce this type of wear reading in an alignment. The only time I've seen issues like yours is after an accident, a faulty alignment machine or bad alignment tech. My guess is you will be or have been approached to spend some cash. GET A SECOND OPINION
If you do let them do the work-write on the work order, before you sign it real big I WANT MY OLD PARTS BACK!, and ask to see the old parts on the car and new parts BEFORE they put them on the car or at least before you leave their shop, If the new camber bolts eccentric is/was the same size as your old ones, ya got took.
If your old parts happen to get lost again ya got took! Just google camber adjustment bolts and you'll see what I mean if you don't know. Good luck!
Last edited by Bigg Will; 09-13-2016 at 12:44 PM.
#6
Just got back from my indy shop. It appears the lower front control arm bushings are toast. Lots of play in them. Explains the squeaking noise I have been hearing on speed bumps as well.
Additionally, when the car is turned on and in park a LOUD clicking/ticking noise can be heard when turning the steering wheel left to right and vice versa.
They will replace both lower control arms and then do the wheel alignment. Let's see what happens.
Additionally, when the car is turned on and in park a LOUD clicking/ticking noise can be heard when turning the steering wheel left to right and vice versa.
They will replace both lower control arms and then do the wheel alignment. Let's see what happens.
Last edited by kiddhan625; 09-13-2016 at 06:01 PM.
Thread
Thread Starter
Forum
Replies
Last Post
FS[NorthEast]: XJ8L for fixing or parts
mikin
PRIVATE For Sale / Trade or Buy Classifieds
0
09-06-2016 08:27 AM
Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)