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  #21  
Old 02-26-2019, 07:10 AM
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Originally Posted by davetibbs View Post
The problem is that the rear crossover pipe isn't just a hose bridging the two heads together, it's a pipe bridging the two heads with an additional hole for the rear coolant sensor, as well as T-piece for the hose that connects to the throttle body. There's pics of them all over the internet, the part number is AJ812458:




It would be entirely possible to have one made out of aluminum or similar, and I'm sure you could also 3D print one as a single piece much better than the plastic seam-welded original. However, despite the rather alarmist title and tone of this thread, I don't think there's enough call for someone to do a decent run of them worth selling. I'm sure the vast majority of these crossover pipes haven't failed. Over time they become brittle and more prone to it, sure, but how many owners do you think are willing to go through the veritable *** ache of changing it? It's not exactly a 1-spanner rated Haynes job.
Oh man... that is one ugly looking thing...
I will be honest, I would have reservations touching that thing and build it in 3D... not that I could not build it; but the part is too complex to just print it and put it on the market without some rigorous testing.
 
  #22  
Old 02-26-2019, 10:12 AM
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Originally Posted by lotusespritse View Post
So what's your point? The engine will be damaged before you can do anything from that ODB reader. Just ask this guy: https://www.jaguarforums.com/forum/x...cement-214153/

"Luckily I have been running the Torque app ever since I tuned the car, so it helped when the pre-set alarm went off telling me my coolant temps were too high. I purposely set the PID to warm me if coolant temps go above 205 deg.F so I think I had plenty of warming before the engine overheated too bad. I never got any engine temp warning from the dash, I pulled over and opened the hood and saw coolant running out from behind the water-pump. I had another water-pump leak (second time this has happened!). Towed the car home.

I replaced the water-pump...this time I shelled out the cash for a dealership sourced water-pump (looks the same as the cheaper versions, but figured it may last longer)

But, I am now losing coolant over the course of my daily drive. I would say I probably lose about a 16 oz of coolant over a 100 mile trip."

You think you're better than him? You think you can shut it off faster than him? Maybe you can shut it off faster than him, but your engine will still be damaged. But hey, you'll still have your precious app to look at even though your car is in the junk yard.
Are you trying to give helpful advice or are you purposefully trying to be a jerk? How many times do I have to repeat myself?...REPLACING THE PLASTIC PIPES IS INDEED A GOOD IDEA. OK? YOU WIN THE INTERNET TODAY

Besides, that guy was overpushing the already overpushed 3.0 with tunes, pulleys, and nitrous.
 

Last edited by XJ8JR; 02-26-2019 at 10:15 AM.
  #23  
Old 02-26-2019, 11:51 AM
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Originally Posted by XJ8JR View Post
Are you trying to give helpful advice or are you purposefully trying to be a jerk?
The latter.

Originally Posted by XJ8JR View Post
Besides, that guy was overpushing the already overpushed 3.0 with tunes, pulleys, and nitrous.
This is also relevant. There is a problem with the plastic pipes, sure, but the idea that all the 5.0 V8 engines are blowing up left and right as a result of it just isn't true, and external factors like this should always be considered.
 
  #24  
Old 02-26-2019, 02:54 PM
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ok ill make a few points on this topic
1st. coolant temp sensors DO NOT read air. only when it gets really hot. too many times people say well the low coolant light came on but the engine wasn't running hot so I kept driving. BIGGEST MISTAKE. Then how long was the light on when you noticed it. immediately or 10 minutes or longer?
2nd. 2 piece pipes suck and why the replacement crossover pipe under the SC is now 1 piece, the back heater pipe is still 2 piece.
yes the 5.0 and 3.0 do not like to be run hot for long and air lock/steam pockets are killers. Another reason some shops do damage to them because they don't properly bleed the cooling system after repairs. They do overheat and doesn't mean they will or are damaged, but like what I think Lotus said earlier. Would you be so careless with $15-25k in your pocket? No
3rd. bad sensor in the coolant reservoir than shows low but is full? FIX THE STUPID THING. You wont know if its the same old message or if a hose or pipe burst. That low coolant is your first and most important warning something is wrong. Remember you bought a Jaguar or Rover and hopefully have a income to not only afford to buy one, BUT TO AFFORD TO MAINTAIN ONE TOO. Otherwise buy a Toyota or Chevy etc. Just like I tell my kids. Home ownership and car ownership both come with maintenance costs! Figure those as well not just your payments.
 
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  #25  
Old 02-26-2019, 07:17 PM
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Another example of how an app wouldn't solve the problem, so it's not a solution or really of any benefit to anyone with regards to the cooling system issues on this car: https://www.jaguarforums.com/forum/x...oolant-214414/

There's lots of times when you are going to have to sacrifice your engine rather than stop right there on the highway and risk getting killed by being hit from behind.

The only solution is to proactively replace the plastic as a maintenance item. If you don't think I am giving valuable advice here, than you're just not that smart, and hopefully your engine will be the one that blows next to teach you a lesson.

Good luck to this guy with his engine. I am not so hopeful for him, but maybe he'll have a miracle He says he has coolant left in the tank, but the amount of coolant in the reservoir looks like the normal amount of coolant that would be left in there when you drain the entire system. And like Brutal confirmed, it doesn't matter if you have coolant in system when you lose pressurization because the coolant will boil at the heads, and steam not an effective way to cool an engine's head.
 
  #26  
Old 02-26-2019, 08:17 PM
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Originally Posted by lotusespritse View Post
The only solution is to proactively replace the plastic as a maintenance item. If you don't think I am giving valuable advice here, than you're just not that smart, and hopefully your engine will be the one that blows next to teach you a lesson.
Sorry, but from my reading here in your thread, nobody is disagreeing with this. Everyone agrees and recommends to change the darn pipes lol... no need to be so confrontational .
As for the app... my take away from what everyone else is saying is that this will be only a recommendation as another way to keep your eye on things, nothing to do with fixing stuff.

Originally Posted by lotusespritse View Post
Good luck to this guy with his engine. I am not so hopeful for him, but maybe he'll have a miracle He says he has coolant left in the tank, but the amount of coolant in the reservoir looks like the normal amount of coolant that would be left in there when you drain the entire system. And like Brutal confirmed, it doesn't matter if you have coolant in system when you lose pressurization because the coolant will boil at the heads, and steam not an effective way to cool an engine's head.
I'm pretty sure his car will be OK... the level of the coolant is actually not that bad. Add that to the fact that today was quite cold in Toronto, and I doubt anything bad happened with his engine.
Anyway...
 
  #27  
Old 02-26-2019, 11:33 PM
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Originally Posted by lotusespritse View Post
The only solution is to proactively replace the plastic as a maintenance item. If you don't think I am giving valuable advice here, than you're just not that smart
NOT ONE PERSON has denied that it is beneficial to replace the plastic pipes on this engine. Multiple people have pointed this out to you and you continue to ignore it.

You are fabricating a situation that doesn't exist (people disagreeing with pipe replacement) just so you can seize on another opportunity to haughtily and arrogantly declare everyone else as stupid. Is this how you get your kicks?

I think you need help.
 
  #28  
Old 02-27-2019, 05:16 AM
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There is no need in arguing back and forth. Lets all just face the facts. There are some serious design flaws with the cooling systems from the JLR vehicles of the X250 era. To my understanding they are on the 2nd or possibly 3rd design of the water pump. The same goes with the coolant reservoir tank, even it has been re-vamped. As long as we are all dealing with these issues, whether it be by replacements, or by monitoring engine temps with OBD apps etc it doesn't really matter. Stop the petty bickering.
 

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  #29  
Old 02-27-2019, 10:46 AM
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Originally Posted by Supercharged81 View Post
To my understanding they are on the 2nd or possibly 3rd design of the water pump.
Definitely the third, maybe even the fourth.

Originally Posted by Supercharged81 View Post
The same goes with the coolant reservoir tank, even it has been re-vamped.
This is an interesting point and definitely needs more investigation. I still have my old coolant reservoir, which I replaced as part of my engine rebuild, admittedly just because it looks nicer to have a new one in the engine bay, and I have a feeling my VIN is early enough that it probably had an original reservoir fitted. I'd be interested to know what they changed in the revision of this part, if anything.

After all, part number changes don't always indicate a part redesign - it can be a change in manufacturer or a change in the whole model revision. However, if I had to guess at any changes, they would be what I'd change about it, which is to change the mounting of the coolant level sensor so that low coolant warnings are more aggressive.

​​​
Originally Posted by Supercharged81 View Post
As long as we are all dealing with these issues, whether it be by replacements, or by monitoring engine temps with OBD apps etc it doesn't really matter.
As far as I can see OBD apps have never been presented as an "or' to fix this as the only solution to deteriorating pipes is to replace them, rather they are a very useful addition, since there's currently no other way to monitor water and oil temp.
 
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  #30  
Old 02-27-2019, 12:13 PM
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Originally Posted by lotusespritse View Post
The only solution is to proactively replace the plastic as a maintenance item. If you don't think I am giving valuable advice here, than you're just not that smart, and hopefully your engine will be the one that blows next to teach you a lesson..
So not only are you continuing to ignore the fact that everyone in this thread is actually agreeing with you, but now you're also hoping that your fellow Jaguar enthusiasts' engines blow. Plus your "advice" is nothing new. Everybody on this forum knows about the issues with plastic coolant pipes.

Jaguar Forum has officially become like every other drama-ridden forum on the internet where all the man-children bitch and gripe at each other. Where's the "ignore" button?

 
  #31  
Old 03-02-2019, 12:01 PM
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I am a woman, and i drive the jag, and I pay for it to be repaired, as well. so there's that.
that said, is this plastic issue the same as the water pump issue that kills the engine? Or is that another ticking time bomb?
 
  #32  
Old 03-02-2019, 04:54 PM
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Originally Posted by Nahla Artemis-Delphis View Post
I am a woman, and i drive the jag, and I pay for it to be repaired, as well. so there's that.
that said, is this plastic issue the same as the water pump issue that kills the engine? Or is that another ticking time bomb?
Different issues. The water pump leaks through the front shaft seal. If you let it go long enough, one of two things can happen, 1) you could run low on coolant and overheat the engine or 2) (and this is more likely if you keep topping off the coolant reservoir and put off repairing it) it could eventually wash all the grease out of the pump's bearings, then the pump could seize up and overheat the engine. These plastic pipes are in different locations, not directly attached to the water pump. They can either develop a small crack and just leak persistently OR we've had a few owners report a catastrophic failure where they burst open and dump all of the coolant rather quickly. But I suspect they were probably leaking for some time first and it just went unnoticed.

But I think the problem is that most people don't have a clue what goes on under the hood of a car. Most people never open the hood and check anything until something goes wrong because they were never taught about a cars mechanical systems. Unfortunately, young women especially have rarely been encouraged to have interest in mechanical things. Thankfully that's changing in the schools, but learning about the second biggest purchase you'll ever make in your life is actually going downhill for both sexes. If I were POTUS, every teenager, girl or boy, wouldn't matter, would be required to get their first car the same way I did. My father towed home a late model car with a blown engine and said to me "Son, if you can fix it, you can drive it." Even if I never touched a wrench again in my life, I'd at least know enough to recognize when something wasn't right and a lot less likely to get taken to the cleaners when I did go to a mechanic.

 
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  #33  
Old 03-02-2019, 07:56 PM
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:-) I think you are exactly correct about the importance of understanding the car's mechanical stuff when i was a kid, my uncle gave me a mini-bike motorcycle, and the owner's manual. I had to pass a quiz before I was allowed to ride it. Definitely taught me the importance of reading the owner's manual :-) but i wish i knew about the mechanical stuff, you are right that it's important.
i hope i haven't made a mistake buying this car. I hope i can find a local mechanic to help me out when i need it, because the dealership is far away
take care and thanks for your reply,
Nahla
 
  #34  
Old 03-02-2019, 09:46 PM
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Originally Posted by lotusespritse View Post
So what's your point? The engine will be damaged before you can do anything from that ODB reader. Just ask this guy: https://www.jaguarforums.com/forum/x...cement-214153/

"Luckily I have been running the Torque app ever since I tuned the car, so it helped when the pre-set alarm went off telling me my coolant temps were too high. I purposely set the PID to warm me if coolant temps go above 205 deg.F so I think I had plenty of warming before the engine overheated too bad. I never got any engine temp warning from the dash, I pulled over and opened the hood and saw coolant running out from behind the water-pump. I had another water-pump leak (second time this has happened!). Towed the car home.

I replaced the water-pump...this time I shelled out the cash for a dealership sourced water-pump (looks the same as the cheaper versions, but figured it may last longer)

But, I am now losing coolant over the course of my daily drive. I would say I probably lose about a 16 oz of coolant over a 100 mile trip."

You think you're better than him? You think you can shut it off faster than him? Maybe you can shut it off faster than him, but your engine will still be damaged. But hey, you'll still have your precious app to look at even though your car is in the junk yard.


Since I was quoted on here I think I am entitled to my two cents. Lotus seems to troll alot of threads on here, and although I respect his knowledge and his personal experiences I do not agree with this assessment about the 5.0L and 3.0L engines on our Jags. First of all...these blocks are way more robust than given credit. Believe me.,,, I have pushed the 3.0L beyond what I think most people would attempt. It is a TANK !

No one here is denying the bad decision that automakers in general have made in regards to using alot of plastic in the engines (Porsche owners have it worse in this regard...trust me..lol...their intake manifolds are plastic ...Ford Mustangs also!). But to say that our engines will blow up at the first sign of overheating is bonkers. The sky is not falling dude. There are many other similar engines that make much more HP (Alfa Romeo Giulia comes to mind) so there is alot to be had still...especially from the 3.0L

I have replaced all the plastic crossover pipes (the y-crossover pipe failed TWICE). So, I get what you are saying in regards to the plastic pipes...they suck...the original y crossover pipe was aluminium and as others have said, they were never an issue.

I have a hard time believing that these engines can't take a hard beating. I say this from the experience I have had owning four Jaguars over the course of the past 15 years. (ok...now I feel sad....lol)...

...my most recent experience with overheating was caused by a severe waterpump failure....which btw is another known issue with one of our engine components. My engine experienced a lifted head on the right bank which tore the gasket due to overboost. When I get around to pulling the heads I fully expect to have straight, unwarped heads and slightly bent head bolts!

In so far as how an OBDII linked app will or will not help...I feel they are invaluable and strongly believe that had I NOT had my ODBII app running, II would not be so confident as to the condition of my cylinder head. Since there is no way to get a true engine temp reading, unless you have access to Indy car level technology, this is the best way to get an early warning about what is going on in regards to internal engine temps and many other things that can give you a good indication of engine problems.
 

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  #35  
Old 03-06-2019, 10:51 AM
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If anyone has kept their failed crossover pipe(s) after replacing them , I would like to get my hands on one or two for reverse engineering them for manufacture in metal. It might also be possible to print them in a material similar to the original but with no seams, as expansion and shrinkage must be taken into account.Just trying to get the project moving , I've been a model maker for over 40 years and this sort of thing is what I live for.

The engineer I work with is up for the idea, and has access to both 3D printing equipment as well as high pressure casting in bronze or aluminum, one way or the other I'm confident we can create a replacement part that will be a better long term solution.

Paul
 
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  #36  
Old 03-06-2019, 01:31 PM
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Originally Posted by Paul Fisher View Post
If anyone has kept their failed crossover pipe(s) after replacing them , I would like to get my hands on one or two for reverse engineering them for manufacture in metal. It might also be possible to print them in a material similar to the original but with no seams, as expansion and shrinkage must be taken into account.Just trying to get the project moving , I've been a model maker for over 40 years and this sort of thing is what I live for.

The engineer I work with is up for the idea, and has access to both 3D printing equipment as well as high pressure casting in bronze or aluminum, one way or the other I'm confident we can create a replacement part that will be a better long term solution.

Paul
I don't have one, but I am interested in something like this if you can make it happen .
May I suggest starting your thread - maybe this way you get more replies and views for this. I am sure there are a few other people that will gladly upgrade these parts on their cars.
 
  #37  
Old 03-06-2019, 06:46 PM
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Might be better to order a new one to reverse engineer as if been heat cycled a bazillion times, split open and now removed from the engine, the static dimensions would surely have been altered.
 
  #38  
Old 03-06-2019, 09:45 PM
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The dimensions should be the same, otherwise they will not use such material.
The only problem with plastic parts is that they get weak over time because the chemical bonds degrades with heat cycles. That's plastics... can't do much about it.

Personally I would prefer a damaged (cracked part) to work with and re-model/re-build rather than a brand new one. The old part will show me the stress points much better and will give me a very good idea on what areas to be reinforced/improved.
Maybe not so obvious, the old/removed part should be removed carefully so no other physical damage is done to it.
 
  #39  
Old 03-07-2019, 07:14 AM
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Understand wanting to study how they fail. Just don't get your final dimensions off a broken part. Those bonds are part of what helps hold its shape. It may only be a few thousandths of an inch difference, but thousandths of an inch could cause a leak.
 
  #40  
Old 03-07-2019, 07:32 PM
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I think you should go off a new part for your mold. I have experienced two split pipes and the splits occurred in different places. I don't believe you will get any useful insights from a busted unit. The pipe just splits wherever the weakest point in the seam is. IF you do decide to make these, I would get in line all day for an aluminium one.
 

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