Just a quick comment; Jaguar (And most all other automobile manufacturers is not in the ‘Parts Manufacturing’ business. No manufacturer is, really. Except for material components like body parts (And I must confess, I’m ignorant to the engine manufacturing process.)

I don’t know about ROW, but in the U.S., manufacturers are ONLY required to have parts available for 5 years! After that it’s mostly after-market with & sometimes without Jaguar’s backing.
For instance, there are (I believe) Chinese made leapers sold with the Jaguar part number & labeled as OEM, except originally the base was v8 slightly ‘curved’ to match the lines of Jaguar’s hood. Now the lesser cost versions all are seemingly flat on the base. I will live without one (For my X351) even though I liked the factory version on my X250 that I lost due to a hurricane.

We need aftermarket sellers because Jaguar is primarily about selling new cars. But DO NOT believe all you’re told by parts dealers. OEM could just be their BELIEF a part is the same as originally installed. OFTEN those beliefs are INCORRECT; as with my previously owned X350; (Bought for cash after my hurricane loss of my X250.) I needed to replace the thermostat but RockAuto sent what was supposedly OEM; except I had a late ‘06 which used some ‘07 parts. Or the wheel stud that tire installers stripped. (Most none will abide by Jaguar’s recommendation of hand tightening and/or removal of lug nuts.) Every part seller had the WRONG part listed which was EXACTLY what was used for the Lincoln LS! (Being FORD owned, that made sense!) I found the CORRECT ONE THROUGH OUR FORUM HERE! So be vigilant & verify for yourself when it comes to replacement parts! (RockAuto wanted a big restocking fee until I PROVED the part was incorrect, but my sedan was down an extra week causing loss of income.)

I have my suspicions WHY many parts dealers have incorrect information. The first hunch is they’re NOT COMPUTER PROGRAMMERS and databases are complicated. I WOULD GUESS the same database vendor provides most all part sellers. (Because how could you have successful business if you only had one or two customers?)

My second hunch I discovered about office supplies—There are many Office supply sellers, but there is a very extremely limited amount of distribution warehouses. Different office supply stores get their products from the same place. Which is how they equalize the playing field because everyone pays pretty much the same so no one seller can severely undercut others. In some cases different ‘parts stores’ or even ‘online parts’ are owned by the same corporations. The days of local parts dealers are waning except maybe NAPA but their database is flawed too!

I had a ‘97 XJ6; the turn signal was out & changing the bulb was fruitless. It feels like 100° here so I paid a mechanic (Supposedly) familiar with my car. NAPA sold him a FLASHER except the car only uses the BCM to control turn signals. I found a bad fuse & fixed it myself when he exclaimed he couldn’t find where the ‘flasher’ went! (And I decided I no longer needed his services.) NAPA STILL INSISTED the part was RIGHT because it SAID SO in the COMPUTER!

 

mc690, the 5.0L motors were all built in England in a back shop to the Ford plant there. I found out during my time there for the Feel XE event a lot of stuff about Jaguar and how they operate. As for the 5.0L engine, it uses a lot of the same parts as the Ford 5.0L engine. The Jaguar tech gets first pick of parts (part of the contract) and there is nothing that Ford can say. From there, he got to work matching parts together to help build a more balanced engine. Once there were enough parts put together to make an engine they then went off to the build area to build the motor. There are slight diffences between the Ford and Jaguar 5.0L engines, with the main one being the blocks are completely different. I do know the 3.0L and 2.0L engines are not built by Ford, but at a different plant (don't recall where this plant is at the moment) as these motors are Tata designs vice the 5.0L being more of a Ford design.

As for parts, you need to be careful as parts tend to go obsolete quick these days and like you found, may not always be compatible. parts are made differently in a hope to save on manufacturing costs and whatnot, but using the same basic measurements. I ran into this problem recently with my XJ as I needed a new pressure sensor. I pulled the number straight off of the sensor and then could not find the sensor (fuel rail pressure). It turns out that the sensor was adapted some and they changed the last number by 1. The sensor works fine, but still has me wondering why.

If you want to get a glimpse into the number of numbers that a given part may be called, just look on e-bay. Some vendors will list all the different cross-reference numbers that a given part may be referred to as. You miss one little note or something like that and you can get some interesting cross-references.

 

BRAVO- BRAVO!!!!
I've just got to say, I got a kick out of that!
To broadly paraphrase :"the same engine, just a different block"
(I know YOU didn't say it's the "same engine", but you put it so tactfully)

That brought me a laugh at the end of a rough when I was feeling otherwise non-comical.
THANK YOU, Thermo for that bit of unexpected levity. I sincerely appreciate that.


By the way, Rock Auto has some clearance items for our cars. Some probably even by the OEM:
Wholesaler Closeout Parts : 2012 JAGUAR XJ 5.0L V8 (rockauto.com)

 

The rate at which parts, especially electronic parts, are becoming obsoleted, therefore no longer stocked, has the potential to turn MANY cars into "garage art", within the next 10 years, or so. My wife is the primary Jaguar enthusiast in the family, while I'm more immersed in the world of late model Corvettes. We Corvette owners are shocked at how many electronic, systems control parts are used in the car, are critical to the car's operation, but are becoming both obsolete and discontinued, by the various part manufacturers.

For example, there's an electronic control module that's part of the anti-lock brake system, that over time, has proven to exhibit issues. Most of the issues seem to be centered around questionable solder joints, on the primary circuit board. Apparently, the heat/cold cycles this board sees, during the vehicle's lifetime, causes the components to swell/shrink, as the temperatures cycle. Even though my car, a 2001 model, has under 30,000 miles, I very recently experienced this issue.

A new part is no longer available to purchase, but at least in my case, the unit is repairable, and there are a couple of shops that offer this service. If, however, a repair wasn't a possibility, I would have been in "deep tapioca", as the saying goes, because a breakdown of this unit sets a number of "diagnostic trouble codes" (DTCs), which A) light up the instrument panel indicator lamps like a Christmas tree, and B) set these codes in the car's computer, as "system faults". I live in NY State, where an annual vehicle safety/pollution check is required. If there are any DTCs showing, that is an "immediate fail" of the inspection. Car fails inspection, you have either 10 days to fix it, or you park it for good. I certainly wouldn't be a "happy camper", if I had to park my immaculate, low mileage, garage kept, never driven in winter, car, over a $150-200 part that's no longer available....

 

12jagmark, good to see I could put some laughter in your day. How I explained it is how it was explained to me. I don't know if I would go as far as to trust buying Mustang pistons and seeing if they would work in the Jag, but if worst came to worst, it would atleast be something to give it a try. But then, I wonder how easy it would be to say transfer a Mustang motor into an XJ. I'm sure the purists are rolling over right now, but thing should be close enough to be a potential. I am sure some sensors would need to changed over and not sure if the Mustang has VVT on it. That alone may be a show stopper.

 

Considering that those two engines do not share a single part that would be a hard task to complete!

I have heard there is a law requiring the manufacturer to supply parts for so many years after the car is made but never seen any documentation on that?
Is it true?
I do know my old Lincoln LS had so much stuff obsoleted that it was hard to keep the car on the road after a few years. When I came over to Jaguar they had much better parts availability but with the downside of a lot more cost. I was surprised how many interior parts I could get for my old S Type. Example being sun visors. Lincoln long since stopped selling those for the LS. Jaguar still sells them for the S Type. So much better long term support IF you can afford it!
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clubairth1, I did some research on this subject and the answer that everyone points to is rather interesting. Is there a federal law that requires automobile manufacturers to maintain parts on hand? For the US, NO!!!!! But, other countries (the one I saw a link to the law was for Israel which has a 7 year requirement) do have laws that do make that a requirement. So, indirectly, those parts can be made available to those of us in other countries because they are still being made for these limited countries. Now, does that mean that the parts will be made for that long? No, they just have to be available. So, in theory, a manufacturer could order say an extra 1,000 of some part (say a dash blower motor which they know is a low replacement item) and put it in a warehouse somewhere and as long as they did their math correctly, if they have even 1 of them left on Day 7 years and 1 Day, then they met the requirement of the law. So, is a part that has sat on a shelf for 7 years still a new part? By definition, it is. This is why you can find some obscure parts (like sun visors) for vehicles that are way out of production. This becomes a serious game for those that are into doing very authentic restorations on cars and they will search high and low for tires that were made 40+ years ago and pay astronomical amounts for those items because they are taking the restoration to that detail.

So, is there are requirement in the US? Indirectly I would say. We benefit from what others have on the books. The only thing that they did reference was there is an US EPA law that says manufacturers must "pay for repairs of emissions systems for 2 years from date of purchase" and "must pay for repairs for defects or design flaws for any emissions system for a period of 8 years". So, in order to pay for a repair, that would imply that you have to have a part. But ,this is a very specific and limited aspect relating to cars. This would be a US specific case and for those in other countries, they would have to review their local laws as to what may or may not be provided to them.

 

For the record, the AJ133/126 are not Ford designs. The AJ126 has the same casting as the AJ133 with the two rear cylinders blocked off. Both engines have the same V shape and degree angle.

The AJ engines are quite different from the Ford Coyote with different firing order and different crankshafts.

https://www.jaguarforums.com/forum/x...-5-0-a-195147/

 

Interesting post!

We had a 2000 Lincoln LS and loved the car. I was rather disappointed that FoMoCo dropped the car, after the 2006 model year, because had they continued to produce it, we probably would have purchased another one. But having said that, I noticed that even by the '05-'06 timeframe, parts were getting hard to find. For instance, I had what I'd call a "freak occurrence", where the rear door handle mechanism failed, requiring replacement. I couldn't readily find a new one, and had to go to E-Bay, and source a used one.

We kept this car until 2009, and traded it off for our XF.....

I don't know why, but I had heard, for years, that for major manufacturers of major items, replacement parts were supposed to be available for a 10 year period. I never did any research on it, just something that always seemed to be floating around, at least in the 70s and 80s.....



I don't understand that. I would think that when you made a 6 cylinder engine, by NOT having 2 unused cylinders in place, you could shorten the engine block and cylinder heads by that much, That would allow you to A) save overall weight, as well as let you place the engine further back in the chassis, giving you a better weight distribution, which would improve handling.....

 

I think why Jaguar did that was to save a huge amount on how the engine is attached to the car. Doing it this way means all V-6 and V-8 variations use exactly the same mounting hardware and are installed in exactly the same place. So common across all models and drive trains. At least as much as possible for the gas engines. There is so much in common that I have a hard time identifying what engine is under the hood without looking for small details!

So things like engine mounts, transmission mounts, exhaust systems and stuff like that can be shared. One example is the inter cooler for the SC engines. They use the exact same one on XF, XJ, F Type cars with the SC V-6 and V-8 engines. So just one part number covers all those applications.

Yes I would have stayed with the LS if it had been developed further. It was a very good car as is but simply could not compete with what was out there for the price. But at least it was finally a real Lincoln product instead of just a dressed up Ford. To bad 2008 had to happen and Ford had to sell out the entire PAG concept. Sold Volvo, Jaguar/Land Rover, Aston Martin. Even dumped most of their part of Mazda. I though the idea was good but it failed because of external economic reasons. Lincoln was the in the PAG and was suppose to become a premium American brand with help from the other import brands.

Still very proud that Ford was the ONLY US car company that was NOT bailed out by the taxpayer during that massive financial crisis.
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Understand what you're saying, but to the best of my knowledge, the LS and the Jag S-Type were developed concurrently, by Ford and Jag, and the XF was an upgraded S-Type...


BTW, were you ever involved with the Lincoln LS Owners Club?

 

So as I understand vehicle design and then to production takes several years and the first Tata regime designs were the SUVs. The XJ and XF sedans were designed in the Ford era.

 

Ok, so what I am hearing but nobody is actually saying is sounds like car companies are going to drive the market buyers into replaceing cars more frequently and then they don't have to keep as much inventory on stock. Hummmmmmm, I have allways been under the impression that the initial car sale was NOT where most (but a good part did) come from but the aftermarket parts, labor & service is where the real $$$ comes into the dealership. We just spent $1310 on the Infinity M37 to get new valve covers replace so that was a pretty good sum of $$$ for a small item but good for the dealer who wanted $230 to replace the cabin filter (Of which I purchase for $17) on Amazon all the time.....So I guess I will remain confused about the subject...

 

Ken Dreger, there comes a point where you start loosing money for having parts just sitting in a warehouse. Keep in mind that every year a part sits on a shelf, a certain amount of tax gets paid on it. So, you take a $20 part and have to pay 10% tax on it every year, after 7 years, you now have a $40 part, after 14 years, that $20 part is now up around $80. At some point, people are not going to want that part because the cost is too much. So, the only way to get rid of it is to sell it at a loss. So, there is a fine line between holding on to parts, having parts that are made at the moment and sold, and keeping any of a part on hand. Parts for stuff like motors and transmissions are likely to remain available for a lot longer as people are willing to invest money into those sorts of items. But, you take say a stock radio, after say 5 years, I don't think you are going to have many people wanting that.

Kinda like I am hearing that there are Jaguar dealerships that now really don't want to deal with cars that are more than about 5 years old. This is so their techs only need to really know 1 diagnostic system, the cars are easier to work on as things are not rusted together, and the payments get simplified because most of your work is warrantee work, so, you have to deal with a single entity to get paid vice hoping that the person that brought in the car will be able to pay for the repair that you made or they had some aftermarket service and now that company is trying to dicker with the price to be paid for said work. I think whether a dealership takes the 5 or less year thought process or will work on just about anything is up to the person running the dealership and where they think they can make the most money for the least amount of work.

 

And again Thermo comes across with a really good explaination of my question, thanks so much for helping out.

 

Your not wrong Ken. Just look to Japan. Basically anything older than 5 years is legislated off the road. Japan forces you to keep a late model car so more new cars are sold. You can see this easily with the HUGE amount of JDM (Japanese Domestic Market) parts that flood all the other markets around the world. It's all in great shape and low miles. There are people who buy ship loads of late model cars in Japan and export them to Africa but most of the late model stuff is parted out so it can't be used again in Japan.

Yes I was a very early member of the Lincoln LS Owners Club. I thought the LS was going to be developed by Ford and they even started out making a One Lap of America race car LS. But that was a failed experiment and they used the 4.6L engine anyway so it was not really an LS at that point but a hand assembled race car. Still a member and I guess they stopped requiring anyone to pay dues? I know I have not paid anything for years? The forum which was excellent is long dead with what looks like at least a handful of us going over to the Jaguar side.

I have been following an great thread from DeviLSh and his XFR-S. The LS in his user name is from the Lincoln LS and he still has it! I saw it in a picture he posted of his XFR-S. We are working on adding the dual AUX radiators and apparently the XFR-S comes with the dual setup stock?
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clubairth1, if you look at the japanese law, they do not say "you own a car made before 2015, you cannot drive it". their law is very specific in that the tail pipe emissions cannot exceed a certain value. That value is low enough that it pretty much forces you to buy a new motor every 36K miles or so. That is why you see a lot of motors coming out of japan that have just under 40K miles. When I was over there, I saw lots of older cars on the road. They just all had new motors in them.

As for the JDM aspect, that is a complete culture thing that drives a lot of car clubs and people are simply making money where they can.

 

I was browsing through my nightstand, a couple of days ago, and found my old LLSOC membership card. I was member #615. I joined up right as the Edmunds people were pushing us out their door, because we were occupying too much of their bandwidth. I still have my LLSOC cap, too. The last time I looked up that site, was about 5-6 years ago, when one of the "old guys" over there contacted me. They were discussing how some of the guys had moved on to the XF, and were wondering how we felt about the Jags. I filled them in on my experience, and that was my last encounter with those guys.


BTW, know anybody who could use a set of the LS shop manuals?

 

Are they printed? I thought Ford by that time had put all the manual in electronic form and on DVD's?
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Yes, I could use them; PM me. My wife's 2006 is running great at 131k. Still suffering with that goofy Denso nav, but I'm not going to change it at this point. Some OE parts are NLA, but some are also better! Several rear links now have Zerk fittings, for example.

IMO, the LS was doomed from the start to compete $ for $ against BMW et al. But at the close-out price of $37k vs. 50 for the others, it was (and has been) a great value. Non-gearheads can't believe hers is a 15-year-old car. We are kinda looking for the right used XF. AWD would eliminate the Blizazak changeover, and while the Lincoln leather is very nice, it can't compare to the XJ Jag. The start/stop would have to go, but things like a rear camera are a genuine benefit.