This month's Motor Trend compared the base model BMW 740i, Porsche Panamera, Audi A8, Lexus LS460, Jaguar XJL, Mercedes S400, and Hyundai Equus and rated them in that order. The reason the Jag came in 5th was:

1. Lethargic touchscreen (I have been vocal about this not being an issue for me, but apparantly it is for many others).

2. Reliability issues ("Jaguar topped J.D. Power's Vehicle Dependability Study in 2009, but fell to 23rd place this year").

It was the best performer of the group and "design, amenities, and comfort of the interior were beyond reproach". However, during the test "when the hood-latch sensor fritzed, preventing the doors from locking, Lucas jokes went flying" and cost them the prize.

Jaguar better address this poor reliability conception or they will never make it competing with the big boys.

 

I received this issue of motor trend yesterday and saw the cover said 7 car luxury shootout and without knowing the cars they had tested or opening the magazine I knew a BMW would be first place, for some reason car mags are very biased towards BMW. I have previousley owned BMW's and they are great cars but far from perfect. I agree with HouTexJag jaguar needs to to something about the publics perception of their reliability. Im not saying jaguar is up to Lexus reliability probably far from it, but its not any worse than BMW and espacially Audi if you think jag owners are complaining about the cars software, brouse the Audi forums and you can read about the nightmares the Audi owners are having with electrical problems. Yet the car mags and general public have a better view of Audis reliability. I believe the xj is superior to all of the cars in that test except for maybe the Porsche they did a great job with the panamera until they got to the back of the car and just gave up, I mean WTF were they thinking with that rear end.

 

Yes, it is definitely more perception than reality on the reliability issue, but something Jaguar must figure out how to address. I was a little surprised that Motor Trend banged the XJ so heavily over this--they usually don't bring up things like that and just stick to more concrete comparisons. Probably because they had a glitch during the test. I still don't understand the big flap over how fast the touch screen is--it is perfectly acceptable for the limited usage in a car.

Personally, I think the Panamera is pretty ugly--stretching a 911 just doesn't do it for me (and they don't look any better in person). The rear roof line is horrid, but they had to do something to make the headroom acceptable in the back seat. I have to admit that the new BMW is the best looking 7 Series in many years now that they have finally toned down the "Bangle butt". Of course you would have to compare the XJ SC with the $150,000 Alpina B7 and that's a hugh cost difference.

 

Motor Trend is indeed a very biased publication, in the same way Motorcycle Cruiser is biased towards Yamaha/Star cruisers, and Top Gear UK is biased towards British made cars, etc... I always read/watch all those with a grain of salt.

Perception is something that is built over many years, perhaps decades. I think Jaguar is in the right direction with this first big step - the new XJ - and I am sure this is their last chance for a long time to come to try to change this perception of unreliability and low resale values.

Porsche went in the wrong direction with the Panamera. It is without a doubt the ugliest Porsche ever made.

Mercedes has been plagued with many years of low quality issues. BMW 7s are a money pit with their horrid electrical system and insane depreciation. And Lexus while pretty much worry free, lacks in the 'excitement' department.

So out of the bunch, even though I am a Lexus owner, I still give kudos to Jaguar just for the fact that they are trying hard. But they need to try harder - this market is very competitive.

 

I believe Jaguar needs to really get with their PR department and do a lot about the perceived quality issues. I say Jaguar and I still hear people saying stuff regarding electrical systems dating back tot he 80s. And that is a PR and perception issue.
And Jaguar better work twice as hard to overcome such perceptions.

The current occassional XJ start up problems shouldn't count into that. The car needs to be looked at 2 years into production to get a real picture about quality and reliability.

But they MUST look at that touch screen issue. For the average car buyer / consumer that is a real issue and in a car of this category justifiably unacceptable. Like I said, too, I love the rest of the car too much to let that spoil my fun...but not everybody is a car enthusiast. Some are just simply luxury car purchasers to drive a (possibly any) luxury car and all they want is to get from a to b in style and luxury. For those customers these things do matter and is screaming poor design or quality. Unfortunate. But something that farily easy to correct should be addressed much quicker by Jaguar. I mean throw the supplier completely out for non-performance and start over with these modules with another supplier. I know it sounds easier then it is. But still.

And the Porsche Panamera.....no comment. I am a Porsche fan and had two Porsches and I love their reliability and no nonsense approach. But the Panamera is nothing but uggly. There are limits to my tolerance as when the funtionality and quality will overcome such ugliness. And in this case one can only say "really ugly"

And you are completely correct. Lexus is near perfect but so boring. And BMW ( I had a few) will start acting up about 5 years into it, or just about when the warranty is up. And then these little electrical issues are VERY costly. I sure now from experience. That is why my wife's 6 year old X5 with only 60k miles had to leave my garage and make room for a Lexus GX470.

 

My choice would be

#1 MB S Class
#2 Jaguar XJ 8L
#3 Everyone else

To me, the Panamera looks like an LA chop shop had its way stretching a 911.

Part of Jaguar's perception problem is shown in the retention rate:



Saab is basically a dead brand walking. Jaguar customers buy their first one at 80 years old and don't live long enough to buy a second. Love the car, hate the dealers. There are over a dozen MB and BMW independent repair shops here in Denver. Only one Jaguar specialist, unfortunately.

Twotone

 

Ford???.... I think a lot of people "retain" Fords because they unfortunately can't afford anything else... (or they're all F-150s) - I'm not bashing the brand, but I'm sorry I'd have a Hyunday before I'd consider any Ford. As for Jag on this graph... poor thing.

 

I think you'll find a few younger guys on this forum that would take exception to your 80 year old comment!

I'm not sure "retention" is completely applicable when it comes to high end cars. I, for one, don't necessarily like getting the same car every time I trade just for the variety. I think "initial customer satisfaction" is a better indicator and this is where Jaguar needs to concentrate.

 

a) I am not 80 and I think that is a dated statement. I doubt the "older" drivers are that open to the updated Jaguar design lines. I am sure the avg. Jaguar driver (pocket book allowing) will be getting younger.
b) All these reports are to be taken with a grain of salt and common sense. Statistics aren't everything. (even so our government and politicians think that ) There is always a story and more behind numbers.
c) Turns out I am not brand loyal at all. And neither are others. Years ago late 80s and early 90s I was only driving BMW and repeating that. All of sudden I got myself into Mercedes. Then in a brand new '98 XJ8L Vanden Plas (Had that for 8 years and one of the best cars I had in terms of reliability, even a bit short of high tech features even at that time). I bought that at the age of 34, so not that old. Then it was Mercedes again twice. (CLS) Now the new XJ got me. (And the ugly boring XJ last generation, well, that was just to dull for me).Also got 2 XK8 in that time after being in Porsche twice for my "fun car" .

What I am trying to say, many people will buy what they see and like. No matter the brand as long as the reputation is OK. And that is where Jaguar has to pay a lot of attention to. Nobody wants to be hassled about their $90k car being on a tow truck most of the time.

I totaly agree with HouTexJag and his statement "initial customer satisfaction". Because all those early negatives can make a HUGE impact on the perception of the car and its quality. I hope I am not mistaken, but I believe Jaguar has a winner with this one. BUT they should have made sure the car was ready in time. Putting a sluggish touch screen in is very avoidable and that sloppiness will cost them a lot of customers just because of perception and reviews. What a shame and waste of all the other good work they did on that car.
At least this is easier to fix then engines blowing up. Don't forget, BMW had debacles like that and all the others had to. And it all cost them sales. (I only say iDrive, or about 5000 BMW engines had to be replaced in the late 90's).
What I am really wondering is, what will the car looked at it in about 2 years when it matured and when we all can talk from real life experience.

 

Here is my two cents on the matter. You remember back in the late 80's when Audi had that unintended acceleration problem in the US? It almost killed them.(I had an Audi 4000 and never had the problem.) It took Audi a long time to change America's perception of them. Jaguar has the same problem. Regardless of how many awards they win(and they have won plenty) until they can change America's long rooted perception that their reliability sucks nothing will ever change.

Again people forgive Mercedes and BMW for short comings because they have a long history of being well-made cars. PR will not save Jaguar. Word-of-Mouth will. Everyone takes what they see on the internet and read with a grain of salt. Nobody believes dealerships because they lie and are bias. But if your buddy buys a Jag and says I have not had any problems or I have had very few problems and they were fixed promptly that goes longer than reading that they won some JD Powers awards. I mean really who doesn't win a JD Powers award these days? I discount them immediately.

I read the article at Motor Trend.com and though I don't agree with their scoring or their categories I myself would not have given Jaguar the number one spot either. I think 5 blows but I truly don't know how the hood sensor failing played in their final decision making process. I am sure a few people thought to themselves "well this is a Jaguar alright" and not in a good sense. The article is entitled entry level luxury car but they constantly talk about options and if you look at the price cars were test rarely any were base models. And though I hear you guys about the look of the Porsche I see at least one everyday and have actually looked at most of the review on youtube and I don't think they look that bad at all. I would rather have that than Hyundai Equus or an Audi A8.

Here is how I would have rated them if it were me. 1. Lexus, say what you want but perfect is still perfect regardless of how boring it is. I would rather have perfect on the road than exciting in the shop car. 2. Porsche, to me the car is hot. I have never been a Porsche fan myself but I give respect where respect is due. And just like the Cayenne I think this will be a hit for Porsche as well. They have loyal followers with deep pockets and this is the Porsche they can get without pissing the wives off. 3. Jaguar XJL, To me the car is beautiful.(except for those black C-Pillars call them the Cindy Crawford mole) When I first saw it and the same with the XF I had an emotional response.(And for the S-Class as well. maybe I am just emotional) That doesn't happen too often. But just as many people think that its ugly just like the Porsche. How it didn't get best interior is beyond me. Especially if we are talking about entry-level models. 4. Mercedes, I wouldn't have chosen the S400 but other than the engine its about the same as the S500. 5. BMW, like Mercedes they have the lineage and the consistency that at the end of the day Jaguar needs desperately to survive. 6. Audi, to me Audi has always been the more expensive step-brother to BMW without the BMW heritage. Kinda reminds me of the Bose catchline."Better sound through gorilla marketing" and finally Hyundai, come one now. Ok it has a refrigerator and a Power back seat but do you really want to pay 64K for a Hyundai. There is a reason Lexus, Acura, and Infiniti exist. No one in America was willing to pay luxury car prices for a Toyota, Honda or Nissan. The reason the VW Phaetom failed is because it was a VW. If I am going to spend a hundred grand on a car why the heck would I spend it on a VW no matter how awesome the car was. But people better look out. Hyundai is not going anywhere. And if they keep giving Ipads as the owner manual, and picking up and dropping off your car they are definitely going to take market share away. It won't take much for them to become the next Lexus. I just don't know if they can do it in America under the Hyundai banner. We Americans are a show off people. And If I go from nothing to something I am not spending 64K on a Hyundai. Doesn't really scream success.

So in the end for Jaguar to take market share and change the perception of the American public, they are 1. Going to have to get better word of mouth. 2. Build near perfect cars. Any issue will lead people right back to the "Jaguars are not reliable" state of mind. 3. Better customer service from their dealers. I honestly think that if they had the money they should make all under performing dealerships company owned so as to control the customer experience like Apple or Starbucks. Because again that leads to better word of mouth. Maybe they need to give Ipad as owners manuals and pickup and drop off service. Honestly most people understand that a car will problems every now and then. What they don't expect are a lot of them and incompetent dealerships which Jaguars seem to have both of. People will swallow a lot if they feel they are being taken care of. Customer service after the sale is always important. I am not sure why a lot of companies haven't figured that out yet. Think how New2Jag might have felt if everytime he had a problem someone came and got his car and gave him a loaner. And then said you know what. We don't know what is going with this car but what we are going to do is treat it like a lemon and give you a new car and we will deal with Jaguar on this matter. Do you think you might have a customer for life? Do you think every time someone asked him about his Jag and any issues he wouldn't say a few but let me tell you what they did for me that no other company has. Something to think about. But that's just my two cents.

http://www.motortrend.com/roadtests/...son/index.html

 

I really hope Jaguar IN ENGLAND has read your post above, because without a doubt it is one of the greatest posts of this forum. I couldn't have said it better myself.

 

I must be bucking the trend as I'm 36 years old and on my second Jaguar.

 

ExpatJag, your post is right on. Ditto is all I can say. Well put. I grew up in Germany and I had my share of all of them. I really appreciate to take the time to put it out there. You really know what you are talking about and I appreciate you sharing your knowledge.
The way you would rate them is right as I see it. It is a shame they didn't really compare apples to apples as they had a hard time getting cars to do that. A S550 would have been the better match here for example. As much as I love the Jag, I know that technically it is not on top of some of those others which means loosing a few points. But important is the overall car. Not just singled out items. And I would have seen the Jaguar on a number 3 spot as well.

And yes (laughing) to Audi is still the stepchild. But again, its us and perception. Go back in time about 20-25 years and Audi wasn't even being considered a luxury brand. (at least not in Europe). And I, too owned a Audi 100 at one time (called the 4000 in the US). And it was more a Volkswagen then anything close to BMW or Mercedes. That Audi level may have changed, but our perception hasn't yet. That will take years if not decades. Research shows over 10 years. Same with the quality perception of Mercedes and Jaguar. Mercedes isn't by far as good as it is perceived. (not anymore and it hurts me to say that as a good old German engineer). And Jaguar quality is by far better then its perception. But you are 100% correct about your word by mouth statement. No PR will help. That is why it is even more important that Jaguar gets its dealers to do an excellent, if not above average job. That is more vital to Jaguar then ever before. They can build the best car there is. But if they have to wait 10+ years for the word to get out, and that to be hampered by poor dealer service in some cases, they will run out of time and gone. I hope they are aware of that.

Thanks again for you very accurate and knowlegable post.

 

This is a good read!

 

I would not have rated the Lexus first. No matter how perfect, for car enthusiasts there have to be points lost for lack of desireability and the "wow" factor. I have to agree that the BMW deserved first and I would have put the Jag second. Below that it's a toss up except that the Hyundai should be last--again, not at all desireable for all of he reasons you listed and that's not going to change anytime soon.

 

Hou,

I don't understand what car enthusiast wouldn't desire perfection. True there is not really a wow factor but the BMW 7 doesn't wow me either. Shouldn't every car manufacture strive for perfection. Isn't that what we want them to do? Don't we crave that perfect work of automotive art? I know I do. So what if the Lexus wasn't boring? I mean if boring is the only real issue with the Lexus wouldn't it still be number one. The Jaguar won the Automotive Design of the Year award but it has more than a few problems. We just found out there is one blower in the car so if the rear occupants turn the blower on full its also on full in the front. And you believe that deserves the number two spot? I guess we all have our own subjective scoring measures for cars but when we start dinging a car for being too good what are we saying? Should mp3's be hailed as the number one audio format because it is most used even though it is a huge leap backwards and of lower quality than cd's? If I could get my Jag closer to the quality of a Lexus I would do so in a hearbeat. The fact that we equate Lexus to perfection should say it all.

 

Well, that's what makes a horserace as they say. When I see an LS460 it does nothing for me--when I see the beautiful design of the Jag it turns my head. Just like when I see a Bentley Continental GT or an Aston Martin. Hard to explain but, like you say, it is subjective and a big factor in the way I rank a car (and this is the first 7 Series model in many years that starts to do that for me again, especially in the sport trim). I just put more emphasis on design, performance, and comfort than on little feature glitches like not having 2 A/C fans or whether an Ipod or smart phone connect properly--the Jag just blows away the competition in these categories and why their #5 rank in the test is just plain wrong IMHO. I don't think that current Jags really have a huge quality issue--it is more of a perception hanging around from the pre-Ford ownership days. I had a couple of Jags in the 80's that had real quality issues and only one incompetant dealer in town to address this. I had an '02 and '05 XJR that were darn near perfect and only saw one of the 3 dealers in town for their 10,000 mile services.

 

For me when you get up into this price range(100,000+) I think the little things should matter as much as the small things. Which is why Bentley and Aston are who they are. When you get to this level you should have two blowers because a car half the price does. When you get to this level your phone should sync with no issue. Whether is can access all functions is another thing but it should pair can give you the basic ability to make calls. When you get to this level I find it unacceptable that just because I have a US spec car in Europe I can't use the GPS. Not because maps are not available or a software issue but because in their infinite wisdom there is some hardware issue that won't allow it. To think I can go by a 400 dollars GPS that will do what a car at this level's GPS won't do. I mean the Audi A8 not only filters the air but it scrubs it as well. Its those little things, most we know of but also the few we don't that are suppose to make a luxury car a luxury car. Do you think the average Rolls Royce owner knows or cares that it takes 3 hours to paint one coach line on their car and that it is hand done? Rolls Royce knows and care. This is where I want Jaguar to aspire to. I want to know I am valued as a customer and for owners of other luxury car to look and nod because they know. In the end I have high hopes for Jaguar. Jaguar has plans to increase their line and though I would rather see them go the way of Bentley than of Audi I understand. I actually think they don't have the perception from the US audience yet to increase their line. I think if they can start having American's see you as a Bentley or a Aston Martin it will be easier to come out with a 3 series level car. But for that to happen they must and I say again they must be concerned about the little things as well.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zEvrNPj4UvA

 

I think jaguar has paid attention to the details, for example the rear seats are heated and air-conditioned as standard equipment this is optional on other cars if it's even available. Also the seats are air-conditioned and not ventilated like in Mercedes or BMW so you can actually run the heater in the ac system but have the seats blow cold air,not sure you would want to do this but you can. As we compare cars there is always going to be something we wish our cars had that others have but the same is true for owners of other cars when they compare it to the xj. As for expatjag issues with the GPS I can't really blame jaguar for this as you bought a US spec car for a market it was not intended for.

 

Well I can blame Jaguar because for one BMW and Mercedes don't have this issue with their US Spec cars over here and for two its just stupid that it doesn't work regardless of the car company. Not having the maps available is one thing but not being able to install maps because of a hardware issue is just stupid. There should no hardware issue that stops the GPS from working over here period. I don't know how else to say this. Why would you build or have someone else build you different hardware restricted GPS systems for different regions? That's not even cost effective. It's a GPS. It's not a dvd player and even those are mostly software region restricted. And you would think once you get to a certain price range they might think you might be a person that may want to take your car somewhere else. And heated and vented rear seats is part of the luxury package on the base XJ.